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Nosler 185 Gr JHP .45.....

B17-P51B17-P51 Member Posts: 2,199 ✭✭✭
Custom competition
I had the opportunity to get a large amout of these bullets at a ridiculosly low price so I will be shooting these for some time. Does any one else use these and what are your opinions and sugestions.
I load with Titegroup exclusivly.
thanks

Comments

  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,664 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Perry Shooter will be along shortly to help ya out!! [:D]

    He might even talk you into using a different powder (or two)...
  • B17-P51B17-P51 Member Posts: 2,199 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bpost
    Karl is a Bullseye man. Sorry, but I quit using "Flammable Dirt" years ago[:D]Besides this bullet is much too light for his liking[;)]
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,664 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ah yes the famous flammable dirt AKA Bullseye......LOL... Align the sights, squeeze the trigger hear the roar wait for the wind to move the smoke so you can check your spotting scope for a hole, Bullseye is dirty but it sure shoots well.

    I like titegroup, it is a great powder I use it too. But, for giggles get a can of Vit. N310 and try it. You will be impressed with the consistency, clean burning, easy metering and superb accuracy on paper.
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    The Nosler 185 grain Was the bullet of choice for the top military shooting teams when Federal dropped the ball"QUALITY WHEN DOWN SO LOW MILITARY TEAMS SENT AMMO BACK OR DESTROYED IT"[:0] on their old standard 185 grain short nosed semi wadcutter . The marines even set up their own reloading shop and used Nosler 185 grain JHP this bullet and VV 310 as well as VV 320. Can you imagine loading for 20 - 40 shooters that fire at least 180 rounds per day. The military teams finely got an ammo company to custom load for them. This put a real bind on a civilian being able to buy match grade ammo. . The big boys during the OBAMA caused ammo shortage stopped putting out the 185 grain semi wadcutter. As far as I know they do not produce it any more . Now that Nosler had captured the market what do they do[?]They shoot themself in the foot and redesign their great bullet and it goes down in quality [V][:(!][:(].Back to the drawing board . Zero started making a copy of the original Nosler & Nosler trying to keep from losing market share went back to making their good bullets . SO we had 2 sources of great bullets. But hard to get Match ammo because military teams were getting all the custom loaded ammo. Now all is again right in the world because you can buy great bullets from two people and 10 time national Champion Brian Zines is also having ammo made with the Nosler /Zero type bullet A shooter I am coaching bought a case of GUNNY ZINS ammo and it is as good as any ammo I have ever tested[:D][:D][:D][:D]
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by B17-P51
    Custom competition
    I had the opportunity to get a large amout of these bullets at a ridiculosly low price so I will be shooting these for some time. Does any one else use these and what are your opinions and sugestions.
    I load with Titegroup exclusivly.
    thanks


    I just got done loading 250 of these using 7.5 gr. of Longshot. Longshot is just a little slower than AA No. 7. Accuracy was OUTSTANDING!

    I also use AA No. 5. Accuracy was also great using these bullets and that powder. Reason I switched, was during the great Obama scare, I couldn't get AA No. 5 for a while. I ended up trying other powders and that worked pretty good for me. AA No. 7 gave best velocity, but also had a pretty good recoil to it. This was out of my Springfield Mil-Spec .45. And still remained pretty clean.

    Bottom line, the bullets work great. I would, however, move to the next level with powders. No sense in running a 1/2 dirt/black powder combo through your gun.
  • B17-P51B17-P51 Member Posts: 2,199 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
    quote:Originally posted by B17-P51
    Custom competition
    I had the opportunity to get a large amout of these bullets at a ridiculosly low price so I will be shooting these for some time. Does any one else use these and what are your opinions and sugestions.
    I load with Titegroup exclusivly.
    thanks


    I just got done loading 250 of these using 7.5 gr. of Longshot. Longshot is just a little slower than AA No. 7. Accuracy was OUTSTANDING!

    I also use AA No. 5. Accuracy was also great using these bullets and that powder. Reason I switched, was during the great Obama scare, I couldn't get AA No. 5 for a while. I ended up trying other powders and that worked pretty good for me. AA No. 7 gave best velocity, but also had a pretty good recoil to it. This was out of my Springfield Mil-Spec .45. And still remained pretty clean.

    Bottom line, the bullets work great. I would, however, move to the next level with powders. No sense in running a 1/2 dirt/black powder combo through your gun.


    Sandwarrior
    You never said so but I assume Longshot is very clean also? Thanks for the input. The 185 is new ground for me as I have shot NOTHING but 230 GR lead RN with 5.0 gr Titegroup since it came out. Before that I toyed with some AA powders,also W-W WST and WSF. This was thru an XD.
    I sold some stuff and got a pistol made by a guy nemed Les and lucked into a great deal on the 185's. These I should be shooting for several years. Still have the XD and 12,000 rounds later nary a hiccup. Just couldnt pass on the 185's.
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    For the most part the Longshot was clean. I did have something, Perry I hope you can weigh back in on this, that I thought was odd. Some of the cases when they came out of the gun had what looked like one burned side. Not all, or even many. Just a measurable percentage of cases that seemed to have the outside burned all the way to the head almost. Other than that, very clean.

    As luck would have it, I dropped by the Gunstop the other day and they had AA No. 5 in stock.
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    Hello after all this Abuse I received about my affection to BULLS-EYE powderI should keep my IDEAS to myself but . IMHO its those wimp loads you are shooting [}:)][;)]. Truthfully sooted /burnt cases comes from a combination of work hardened cases and a powder that IMHO is too slow for a big diameter straight walled case . What happens is as the powder starts to burn it does not generate enough pressure to seal the case mouth to the inside of chamber wall of barrel . Some ways to cure this is with softer Brass or faster powder LOVE THAT BULLS-EYE or VITVORI 310/320 or Winchester231 what I think might work if you want to continue those wimp loads all jokes aside make sure you use a TAPER crimp die and make the case mouth .003 smaller then say 1/4 inch down the case from the mouth . This will give you more pressure when the powder is lit because it will grip the bullet harder "BULLET PULL" and the case will expand and not let burning gasses start down the outside of the case. As a WISE man says after eating a box of prunes when going to the bathroom and taking a No.2 it might leave some parts dirty don't be LAZY just like using bulls eye man up and use T.P. and cleaning patches.[}:)][;)][:I]
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks Perry,

    I think I'll save the Longshot for 230 gr. loads and use my AA no. 5 for the 185's.
  • B17-P51B17-P51 Member Posts: 2,199 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sandw....
    I had the same problem with my .45 Colt and trail boss. That is a much longer case and I had the burning soot marks all the way down. Too light a load was tha culprit.
    I heard they moved Gunstop across the road or something and that you can actualy find stuff now!!

    Karl.. You can still play with your Bullseye, Just don't track it through the house when you're done or sit on any of the furniture.[;)][}:)]
  • txfellertxfeller Member Posts: 198 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That's the only bullet I use for my 45. 6.8 grains of wsf powder makes for a nice clean burning round, and one ragged hole at 15 yards.
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by B17-P51
    Sandw....
    I had the same problem with my .45 Colt and trail boss. That is a much longer case and I had the burning soot marks all the way down. Too light a load was tha culprit.
    I heard they moved Gunstop across the road or something and that you can actualy find stuff now!!

    Karl.. You can still play with your Bullseye, Just don't track it through the house when you're done or sit on any of the furniture.[;)][}:)]


    Yeah, they moved around the corner and up the road. Right next to the Post office now. Back in the old place it was definitely "Tight!" But they had a lot of good stuff. Since then we lost Howie, but Larry and John are keeping things going well. I always wish I had more time to just drop in on them but I'd start spending more money than my kids want from me.

    And Karl, thanks for the help. But I agree with B17-P51 in that you need to take your shoes and play-jumpers off before coming in the house if you are gonna play with BuLLZI* powder.[:D][}:)][:D]
  • steve45steve45 Member Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    does no one shot ww231 anymore?
  • B17-P51B17-P51 Member Posts: 2,199 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Nosler site does list 231 as an option. I have an unopened pound of the stuff that was given to me last year but have never used it in 30 or so years of reloading.
    Here is a link to the nosler site.

    http://www.nosler.com/Reloading-Data/45-ACP-Handgun-185-Grains.aspx

    Yes Perry they do list Bullseye [:p] so go ahead and gloat[V]
  • JustjumpJustjump Member Posts: 644 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    thousands of rounds a year with 231 and no intention of changing!!!
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    5000-7500 rounds a year with Bulls-Eye since 1971 you do the math. I have never had anything shoot smaller groups from ransom rest with my pistols. But like anything different strokes for different folks. I just feel that a quick powder in a big bore straight walled case that has very little airspace in the loaded case works better then a slower powder. W 231. is a good powder and measures better in most powder measures in blue or green or red presses but if one has a STAR reloading press Their powder measures can measure pine bark mulch[;)]so I use BULLS-EYE[^] "PRAISE THE HARD-BALL GUN"
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by perry shooter
    5000-7500 rounds a year with Bulls-Eye since 1971 you do the math. I have never had anything shoot smaller groups from ransom rest with my pistols. But like anything different strokes for different folks. I just feel that a quick powder in a big bore straight walled case that has very little airspace in the loaded case works better then a slower powder. W 231. is a good powder and measures better in most powder measures in blue or green or red presses but if one has a STAR reloading press Their powder measures can measure pine bark mulch[;)]so I use BULLS-EYE[^] "PRAISE THE HARD-BALL GUN"


    AHHHH....that's the secret ingredient...so it isn't really flammable dirt after all[;)].....[:D][:D][:D]
  • B17-P51B17-P51 Member Posts: 2,199 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    karl
    All kidding aside, wouldn't a powder that fills the case more be more likely to have more consistent ignition because of less air space? I load a lot of rifle shells and have always found that the slowest powder (therefore more powder) generally gives more consistent groups.
    I like Tite group because it is recognized as being "not position sensitive" by the manufacturer and many gun writers that use it.
    It is possible to blow a gun up by using too little powder, a situation similar to a knock or ping in a car, whereby the powder ignites at both ends, that being near the primer and near the bullet as the case is laying horizontally in the chamber of course. The flame from the primer shoots out over the half full case of powder.
    this occurs primarily in rifles but I wonder if is possible in a pistol.
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    Hello I don't profess to really be an expert on internal ballistics Most of what I believe is from 40 plus years working with 45ACP looking for tiny groups. I have a barrel tester That I built and the use of another Barrel tester My friend built. I also have two Chronographs and a Ransom rest. Most of my testing has been with both Barrel tester and pistols in Ransom rest at 50 yards "this is the distance we shoot our slow fire target" I also shoot ten shot groups. If either the first 10 shot group or second 10 shot group of any one loading is bad I discard this load. If I find a load that shows promise I put up two targets on top of each other I shoot 10 shots and then remove top target replace the top target fire 10 more rounds and remove the top target again and replace the top target for the third time. I fire 10 more shots and remove all targets . This give me three ten shot groups and one 30 shot composite Target. I do this because we fire 30 shots slow fire . I have tried many things the bench rest folks do Like flash hole drilling, cleaning primer pockets, Trimming cases and a number of other things. I have found these 3 things at least are a waste of time . Trying to weigh each case each bullet & each powder charge is also IMHO a waste of time. The Star progressive press will load Thousands upon Thousands of rounds better then all the little tricks that the bench rest rifle guys use,when it comes to 45ACP. I have shot 90 % of my loads with Lead bullets From a very hard lino-type all way down to VERY soft Swagged bullets. I have found with the proper fit.001-.003larger then groove diameter, and proper LUBE I like SOFT lube "I think soft lube seals the bore better". You have a number of advantages. The barrel last longer My barrels last 100,000 rounds and then the bore is still great but the lock-up needs a slight amount of work so I just fit another barrel. I think a bottle neck rifle case and a straight walled pistol case is entirely different . As a pistol bullet goes down the bore the volume increases very quickly 45acp case is less then one inch you put the bullet in the case and powder space is very limited. Extreme is the 45 GAP where just a few.tens of a grain can go from mild to wild pressures KABOOM. I like Fast powder because I think it jolts the bullet into filling the bore. and at least for me give better standard deviations . Again rifle cases are different a 45ACP with the bullet 4 inches down the barrel has 4 time to ten times the volume but a 22/250 with the bullet 4 inches down the bore maybe 1.5 times the volume of the loaded round. . The light load KABOOM in both rifles and pistols is hard to duplicate . so This is just a guess on my part I think it can and does happen in SLOW burning rifle powder but I think with pistol loads light load may leave a bullet stuck in the barrel and then the next shot KABOOM . As I said all my thoughts may be full of CHIT but this is what has worked for me. The lead loads will let you shoot many more rounds We shoot 180 in a match . between cleaning and before group size starts to increase. at least 200 or more . Jacketed bullets are IMHO harder on barrels and need more frequent cleaning. They will shoot better groups maybe 1/4 inch at 50 yards If they are good bullets. The JHP in my opinion are better then Ball because the base is more uniform on the JHP because the lead core is loaded in from the front.Wow sorry about being so long winded. Karl.
  • B17-P51B17-P51 Member Posts: 2,199 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Karl
    Thanks for your input and explanation. I see now the reasoning behind the fast powder theroy. I shoot a lot of lead too but always after shooting maybe 500 to 1000 jacketed bullets first in a new gun. I started shooting lead at 790 FPS in a Kimber from the get go several years ago and got very bad leading. After slugging the bore and determining that the bullets were .002 oversize I concluded that perhaps the barell wasnt completly smooth. 500 rds of hardball later back to the very same bullet and load and no leading.
    Your years of experience and willingness to share information from your testing are always appreciated here[:)]
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