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Bullet question about 308
Bubba Jr.
Member Posts: 8,191 ✭✭✭✭
I bought a box of Sierra .308 240 grain HPBT at a gun show a couple of months ago. The reason I got it was because the box was crunched and the price was cheap, and the dealer let me open up the box and check the contents. I got it out today thinking I was going to load some ammo, but I couldn't find any recipes for that weight bullet in .308 Win.
Did I make a big boo boo, or can I use this in a Win. 308 rifle.
Did I make a big boo boo, or can I use this in a Win. 308 rifle.
Comments
The 240 gr. Sierra MatchKing bullets are usually reserved for specialized uses such as long range target shooting or for use in a suppressed firearm. The .300 Whisper (.300-221 Fireball) utilizes the 240's for subsonic suppressed shooting. Needless to say, these loads are below the speed of sound for a reason.
Normally the 240's are used in conjunction with larger capacity cartridges and slightly faster twist barrels, although at .308 Win. velocities you still only need a 1:10" twist.
I think before jumping to conclusions, you need to answer a couple of questions first.
Is your barrel a 1:10" twist or faster?
What use do you have in mind for these Match Bullets?
Sierra's load data only extends to the 200 grain bullets for the .308 Win. However, I've loaded and shot both the 220 and 240 grain MK in a .308 Win. There is nothing ideal about the loads at all although both the 220 and 240 grain loads will make it to 1,000 yards and still be supersonic. The drop will be devastating though.
Let us know what you plan and we'll try to lend a hand.
Best.
Bubba Jr.,
The 240 gr. Sierra MatchKing bullets are usually reserved for specialized uses such as long range target shooting or for use in a suppressed firearm. The .300 Whisper (.300-221 Fireball) utilizes the 240's for subsonic suppressed shooting. Needless to say, these loads are below the speed of sound for a reason.
Normally the 240's are used in conjunction with larger capacity cartridges and slightly faster twist barrels, although at .308 Win. velocities you still only need a 1:10" twist.
I think before jumping to conclusions, you need to answer a couple of questions first.
Is your barrel a 1:10" twist or faster?
What use do you have in mind for these Match Bullets?
Sierra's load data only extends to the 200 grain bullets for the .308 Win. However, I've loaded and shot both the 220 and 240 grain MK in a .308 Win. There is nothing ideal about the loads at all although both the 220 and 240 grain loads will make it to 1,000 yards and still be supersonic. The drop will be devastating though.
Let us know what you plan and we'll try to lend a hand.
Best.
I have a Winchester 88 that I was going to load this for. From what I've been able to find, I have a 1 in 12" twist rate. I didn't have anything in particular in mind for this bullet, just exploring possibilities. It doesn't have to do any task other than amuse me. As I said, I don't have a lot in them.
Thanks for your help.[:)]
Your right, your model 88 does have a 1-12 twist.
A friend and I loaded some 500gr 45-70s sub-sonic and built a can for his Ruger #1, it's a hoot.
W.D.
"I have a Winchester 88 that I was going to load this for. From what I've been able to find, I have a 1 in 12" twist rate. I didn't have anything in particular in mind for this bullet, just exploring possibilities. It doesn't have to do any task other than amuse me. As I said, I don't have a lot in them. "
You're going to be out of luck with the Win. M88 and that 1:12" twist. These bullets are long, requiring at least a 1:10" twist to keep them stable based on the lower velocities from the .308 Win. case.
You might try trading these off for some bullets better suited to your rifle.
Best.
If I remember correctly, the Sierra 240 BTHP was the bullet used in the original suppressed (sub-sonic) 300 Fireball. The bullet was actually longer than the brass case! Launched at 1,000 fps, it had a rainbow trajectory, but lost very little velocity or energy out to its 250-yard or so maximum design range. Outside its role as a sentry-removal tool, it had very little use.
Nah!...it'll knock down rams quite handily in the sihouette game.
Not to offend, pard, but that IS very little use!
Only for the unknowing....
You'd have a tough time pushing that bullet out of a 30-06 yet alone a .308.
You'd be surprised. Even though going slow causes you to increase elevation, this bullet pushes the wind aside. Not the other way around.[8D] It actually does pretty good from a .30-06 AND a .308
We all know (those of us who DO shoot long range) that wind moves all bullets. This one resists wind a lot better than most. Even when slow.
Advanced Member
USA
4528 Posts
Posted - 08/22/2011 : 9:26:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by armilite
You'd have a tough time pushing that bullet out of a 30-06 yet alone a .308.
You'd be surprised. Even though going slow causes you to increase elevation, this bullet pushes the wind aside. Not the other way around. It actually does pretty good from a .30-06 AND a .308
We all know (those of us who DO shoot long range) that wind moves all bullets. This one resists wind a lot better than most. Even when slow.
I would not question its wind bucking ability. But I would question the howitzer type arch of the bullet in .308 especially.
I'm currently working on a ton of .308 ammo, just because I got a ton of IMR 4064 powder for nothing. In my search for what I may think may be a decent load I don't even think I came across any load data for bullets over 200 grains because all the loading manuals don't recommend it.
Now I've started loading various 150 gr. bullet loads and even with 45 grs. of powder I have a compressed load. Not necessarily a bad thing but a bullet of 240 grs in that case would put the bullet half way in the case.
Also granted IMR4064 would probably not be a good powder for that heavy of a bullet. I would think that some Ball or Spherical powder might be a better choice. But I'm sure as hell ain't going there.
Just for fun, start with 30.0 gr. of powder and load up till you see max @ .5 gr. per load with 240 gr. bullets. You'll be amazed at how high you can get those bullets.
For comparison you can think about the .303 Enfield using 174 gr. bullets. They only go out between 2200-2300. You can get the same from a 240 SMK out of a .308. The difference is, downrange you are going to have a flatter trajectory and probably be more accurate (providing you have a 1-10" twist).
Sometimes, there really is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow[;)].
To explain, I knew Wes Ugalde virtually all of my life until he passed away. He came up with the 7mm TCU. His son worked for us and that is actually how I came to first shoot it. At the time I wasn't into 'slow' rounds. Years later when I heard about the "Whisper", and read the first choice was 7mm TCU, I decided to do a little research of my own. I found a guy in our club who not only shot a .300 Whisper in a TC, he had one in an AR! Both were a total hoot to shoot. Where my 7mm TCU got 300 in with 2' 3" drop, the Whisper did it with 5 more feet of drop. But the gong sure sounded off when it hit.[:D]
Bottom line is:
If you want to try some really heavy loads, you'll probably be amazed at the accuracy. Yes they have rainbow trajectorys...but so do howitzers...and I've actually been on the "calling" end and watched them 'pound' a target. Elevation is just adding and subtracting. Windage involves voodoo/witchcraft/boodoo/hoodoo and what ever else you need to get the bullet to the target at that range. But it is fun like you've never been involved in before, to actually bring rounds right in on target with stuff like that.[:D]
Nothing wrong whatsoever with shooting a .300 Whisper to 500 yds. Or, in your case shooting a .308 loaded with 'heavies' to see how accurately they will shoot. While not at all flat shooting, they are accurate.
Those of us "Wronguns" just do it anyways.[}:)][}:)][:D]
In the late 60's or early 70's, Winchester loaded a lot of 308 Palma Match ammo for use by our guys in the Olympics. They used the Sierra 200gr Match. This ammo was not useable in guns chambered for the standard 308 ctg. In order to achieve acceptable velocities, the bullets had to be loaded "long" to keep powder capacity up.. Thus they would not chamber in regular 308's. In the right gun, they were a killer at 800, 900, and 1000 yds.
Advanced Member
USA
4530 Posts
Posted - 08/22/2011 : 10:49:09 PM
IMR 4064 would be a much better powder than you would think. It's just a bit slower than 4895. However, it was the 'original' coated powder. In it's inception the coating was to prevent chemical degredation of the powder. What was found though was that it actually produced some cool things during the 'burn'. Notably, stability (consistency) like not found before with 'naked' powders. Keep in mind this is WWII/immediate post WWII capability. It was good but not comparable to today's powders. But, in any given situation where it is loaded to it's best it will do a good job.
Just for fun, start with 30.0 gr. of powder and load up till you see max @ .5 gr. per load with 240 gr. bullets. You'll be amazed at how high you can get those bullets.
For comparison you can think about the .303 Enfield using 174 gr. bullets. They only go out between 2200-2300. You can get the same from a 240 SMK out of a .308. The difference is, downrange you are going to have a flatter trajectory and probably be more accurate (providing you have a 1-10" twist).
Sometimes, there really is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
To explain, I knew Wes Ugalde virtually all of my life until he passed away. He came up with the 7mm TCU. His son worked for us and that is actually how I came to first shoot it. At the time I wasn't into 'slow' rounds. Years later when I heard about the "Whisper", and read the first choice was 7mm TCU, I decided to do a little research of my own. I found a guy in our club who not only shot a .300 Whisper in a TC, he had one in an AR! Both were a total hoot to shoot. Where my 7mm TCU got 300 in with 2' 3" drop, the Whisper did it with 5 more feet of drop. But the gong sure sounded off when it hit.
Bottom line is:
If you want to try some really heavy loads, you'll probably be amazed at the accuracy. Yes they have rainbow trajectorys...but so do howitzers...and I've actually been on the "calling" end and watched them 'pound' a target. Elevation is just adding and subtracting. Windage involves voodoo/witchcraft/boodoo/hoodoo and what ever else you need to get the bullet to the target at that range. But it is fun like you've never been involved in before, to actually bring rounds right in on target with stuff like that.
Nothing wrong whatsoever with shooting a .300 Whisper to 500 yds. Or, in your case shooting a .308 loaded with 'heavies' to see how accurately they will shoot. While not at all flat shooting, they are accurate.
Sandwarrior Just don't have the need to load that heavy a bullet. I wish I had a place to shoot 500 yards but I don't. The best I can do is 300. I also tend to use lighter bullets in most calibers that I have with the exception of .223/5.56. I use nothing heavier then 139 grs in my 7mm-08 and I stick with 125 & 150grs. in my .303. The heaviest I've loaded in .308 is 168 gr. hpbt. Because all my shooting is 300 yards or less I'm all about the flattest shooting round I can get in a given caliber.
I'm intrigued though with using some 130 gr. 270 bullets in the 6.8 Remington. If they can load a 150 gr. bullet into a 7.62x39 I would think that you could stuff a 130 pill in a 6.8.
There is a loading for it in the Lyman reloading manual but doesn't fit in the magazine of an AR., but I'm still gonna try.
Funny you mentioned the 7mmTCU. I thought about trying to stuff one of those in an AR but it was just a thought. But speaking of big bullets the 250 Sierra Spitzer does wonders in a .357 Herritt. I still have one in a Contender with a 10" bbl.
Funny that you mention howitzers as well as I've been on both ends of howitzers as well.
You'd have a tough time pushing that bullet out of a 30-06 yet alone a .308.
Wasn't the original 3003 loaded with a 220 grain Bullet? also the 3040 krag?
quote:Originally posted by armilite
You'd have a tough time pushing that bullet out of a 30-06 yet alone a .308.
Wasn't the original 3003 loaded with a 220 grain Bullet? also the 3040 krag?
Yes, they were. Unfortunately due to the shape of the bullet, not the case capacity, the range was limited. there were a lot of things we didn't know back then, and we let some very good things slip through our grasp...that is until 100 years later.
There is certainly an arch when shooting 240's from 30-06's. You might even need to step up to a tighter twisted barrel to get them to stabilize. But, I have stabilized them from a 1-10" twist. I know .300 Whisper and .300 AAC Blackout (both derivatives of the .300-.221{Fireball}) both use 1-8" or 1=7" twists. But, they only push them out at 1000-1200 fps.