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Browning HP 9 mm loads

woodchuckjohnwoodchuckjohn Member Posts: 207 ✭✭✭
edited September 2011 in Perry Shooter Competition Shooting and Reloading Forum
I have spent the summer looking for a good load for my Browning HP 9 mm. I am frustrated by the guns inconsistency to group well. I have tried so many combinations with mixed success. Factory Winchester silver tips in 115 grain shot well one time, next outing, all over the paper. I thought I finally had a load with 5.1 grains of blue dot and a 147 grain Rainier hp, nine in the ten ring from a rest, next time no decent group at all. My shooting buddy suggested not mixing loads of lead and jacketed during the same shooting session, I tried that idea, and he even shot my gun to no good result and he is a bullseye and steel shooter who in also an NRA pistol instructor. Perhaps I should forget the 9 mm and concentrate on the 1911.
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Comments

  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 6,572 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If I were to have a 9mm it would be a HP with the magazine disconector fixed. It seems to that if it will shoot good sometimes it should be able to shoot good all the time. So I'd start with the ammo. Get some new brass of the same run (500 is what I tell folks for pistols) and work it over for length, flash hole debur/uniform and the slight champher on the mouth. Next look at way your powder meters. Check at least 10 charges to make sure your technique/equipment are uniform. Make sure the base of lead bullets are free of lube (powder does not stick). In summer heat the lube can bleed into the powder, I like nose down.
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  • dcs shootersdcs shooters Member Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My HP,S shoot good with my 124-125gr. ball loads.
    I've used different powders with good results with them.
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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Use 124 grain bullets.
    Although the BHP shoots many weights cycling reliably with them, the 9mm was designed for 124 grain bullets.
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  • MobuckMobuck Member Posts: 14,088 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I haven't had any problems with my FM HiPower digesting 115-124 loads. I don't hotrod the HP simply because I have a beater Ruger for that purpose. I had mine slicked and dovetailed for better sights at C&S in Nebraska as well as having them test the parts for softness/brittleness. Haven't really used it much since they worked on it but it definitely improved the smoothness of the slide operation.
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  • woodchuckjohnwoodchuckjohn Member Posts: 207 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lots of good ideas here guys. Thanks for your input. The magazine does have a shiny spot on front from the disconnect rubbing and it makes the trigger a bit gritty. My original intent was to use the HP for steel plate shoots, and the accuracy is good enough for that event. However I am a nut for good groups and I'd like to achieve at least two inches at 25 yards if it is feasable. Perhaps some tuning by a good pistolsmith is needed. I did measure the barrel and bushing and there is .005 clearance between them. Only .0025 on a side so it isn't much play. The barrel seems to lock up tightly in battery. Ammo is a good place to start with guarnteed uniformity of brass and powder weight consistency. OK more work ahead.
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  • noyljnoylj Member Posts: 172 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You should not shoot jacketed/plated bullets and lead in the same barrel without a thorough cleaning.
    Have you slugged your barrel? My first BHP has a barrel with the groove diameter of 0.3598" and they are allowed to go as high as 0.362.
    I have found my best 9x19 loads are with .357" jacketed bullets and .357-358" cast bullets--except my first BHP would need 0.361" cast bullets and I don't have any nor interest in trying to get any.
    How is the thumb? My BHPs chew up my thumb and have made me a firm believer in CZ75s as a "superior," for me, 9x19 gun.
    I have found Hornady 115gn JHP and 7.2-7.4gn of Herco at a COL of 1.142" to be very accurate in my BHP, averaging about 1.5" at 25 yards.
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  • woodchuckjohnwoodchuckjohn Member Posts: 207 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Answer to USA, I slugged the 9 mm barrel and found the following: groove diameter is .357 using a 38 caliber lead swc which OD measured at .359 before slugging it. I have some 125 grain 38 caliber jacketed hollow points which I used to load five rounds to be tested in the 9 mm for accuracy. Interesting point you raised and not often considered when searching for inaccuracy answers.
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  • woodchuckjohnwoodchuckjohn Member Posts: 207 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Loaded five rounds of 38 remington jhp in 9 mm brass using 4.2 grains of tite group powder. All cycled, all fired without mishap and all shot to a four inch group at 25 yards. Not much to complain about there. So we know a larger diameter bullet does, by only .002, tighten the group. Thanks for your input and slugging the barrel is worth while.
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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Never expected to read BHP bores to be so oversized.
    Certainly, the first change is to use the proper size bullets.
    The magazine front and disconnector shoe can be polished to smoothen
    trigger pull.
    I'll have to get to slugging my 9mm guns for bore size.
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  • machine gun moranmachine gun moran Member Posts: 5,198
    edited November -1
    You might want to check the play in the rear end of the barrel with the pressure slightly relieved at the front end of the slide. The barrel and slide start into recoil together while the bullet is transiting the bore, and while that movement is slight, a lot of 'waltz' can develop at the rear end of the barrel while the bullet is still in the bore, affecting alignment. Just put a rod section or dowel down the bore, retract the slide from tight battery ever so SLIGHTLY, and see how much barrel wobble can develop at the rear end.
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  • dcs shootersdcs shooters Member Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by machine gun moran
    You might want to check the play in the rear end of the barrel with the pressure slightly relieved at the front end of the slide. The barrel and slide start into recoil together while the bullet is transiting the bore, and while that movement is slight, a lot of 'waltz' can develop at the rear end of the barrel while the bullet is still in the bore, affecting alignment. Just put a rod section or dowel down the bore, retract the slide from tight battery ever so SLIGHTLY, and see how much barrel wobble can develop at the rear end.



    WHAT [?][?][?]

    The bullet is long out of the barrel before recoil starts [:0][;)]
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  • machine gun moranmachine gun moran Member Posts: 5,198
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dcs shooters




    WHAT [?][?][?]

    The bullet is long out of the barrel before recoil starts [:0][;)]
    [/quote]

    It's a Newton's third law thing. It begins when the bullet starts out of the case.
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  • woodchuckjohnwoodchuckjohn Member Posts: 207 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK guys. good debate here and thanks. I did take your advice and used Winchester cases, cut to length, weighed the powder charges carefully and made up some loads with 4.2 grains of Titegroup using Sierra 115 grain jhp and 125 grain jrn. All produced satisfying groups at 25 yards, no telling how tight they'd be indoors. I'll keep messing around trying for one hole groups now just for the fun of it, but now I have loads I can have confidence in.
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  • noyljnoylj Member Posts: 172 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Did you trim 9x19 cases? Were any of them over max length? I found I get best accuracy with cases from 0.750 to the mythical 0.754". Not many cases are this long.
    Going through my new Horandy #8 Manual, I noted that for the .38 Super they included all their bullets from 121-125gn with a diameter of 0.355-0.357" with the same load data (except for COL).
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  • NavybatNavybat Member Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My favorite 9 mm load is 6.1 grains of Power Pistol pushing a 115 grain fmj. GREAT results out of my Beretta 92f.
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  • dcs shootersdcs shooters Member Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by machine gun moran
    quote:Originally posted by dcs shooters




    WHAT [?][?][?]

    The bullet is long out of the barrel before recoil starts [:0][;)]


    It's a Newton's third law thing. It begins when the bullet starts out of the case.
    [/quote]

    Check John Moses Browning,s patents on locked breach-delayed recoil, and how it works.
    It is different than a blowback pistol.
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