In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Options

shotshell powder ?

fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
ok i am starting my research and READING up on it and came aross a few issues/questions i can not figure out.


INFO: LEE loadall reloader, Gun 12ga O&U or 1100, velocity desired 1200-1255 or so, i only shoot trap


1. What is the differance in the green, red dot powders.

2. when i look up in my tables there are certain grams of powder and then, with that my bushing (.171) offering 19.2 and say i need 19.8 were as the next bushing .180 gives 20.3 grams but do i scale down in bushings or go up in a bushing (tho powder will be higher than load calls for)

3. and has any one had good luck with Winchester 452AA(i know452aa is alot finer) over green or red?

4. can i sub 209 primers for cci 157?


that is all i can think of for know maybe more later

thanks in advance

Comments

  • Options
    Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,240 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't reload shotshells, but here are a few things I DO know.

    It is not prudent (safe) to swap components in shotshells. Changing primers or wads can have a dramatic effect on pressure. Use recipes EXACTLY as printed.

    Green Dot is a wee bit slower than Red Dot. If your bushing drops a slightly light charge, choose red. If it drops slightly heavy, use Green.

    Added: After a bit of research, I have learned that W452AA was also sold by Hodgdon as Trap 100 (both long discontinued) so if you find data for either one, it will be fine. It is about the same burn rate as Green Dot, so in a pinch you can also use that data.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • Options
    fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    yea sorry forgot to add my tables are from 90's lol. My dad gave them to me, however he can not lead me in any direction since he has had many stokes and lost alot of long term memory.

    so is there a current replacement for the Whinchester powder or should i just go with green/red, to make life easy on finding more down road.
  • Options
    Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,240 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The replacement is WST (Winchester Super Trap) and you can find load data at the Hodgdon website http://www.wwpowder.com/shotgun.html
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • Options
    AmbroseAmbrose Member Posts: 3,168 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Please note that, in reloading tables, powder is measured in GRAINS not grams. There is a BIG difference.
  • Options
    zimmdenzimmden Member Posts: 237 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you want your bushing to drop .6 grain more powder, you can use a round rat tail file and open the bushing slightly. Polish with fine sand paper and weigh charges for exact powder charge. Only substitute primers, wads etc. listed in powder manuals for safe loads.
  • Options
    fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Ambrose
    Please note that, in reloading tables, powder is measured in GRAINS not grams. There is a BIG difference.


    sorry i knew that but just typed wrong word.
  • Options
    fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by zimmden
    If you want your bushing to drop .6 grain more powder, you can use a round rat tail file and open the bushing slightly. Polish with fine sand paper and weigh charges for exact powder charge. Only substitute primers, wads etc. listed in powder manuals for safe loads.


    saddly my bushings are plastic (older lee load all) no polishing to be done, maybe file as u said
  • Options
    Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,370 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    1. What is the differance in the green, red dot powders.

    They are completely different powders from the same company. You cannot substitute one for the other. Go by the book.

    2. when i look up in my tables there are certain grams of powder and then, with that my bushing (.171) offering 19.2 and say i need 19.8 were as the next bushing .180 gives 20.3 grams but do i scale down in bushings or go up in a bushing (tho powder will be higher than load calls for)

    Shotgun shells should be loaded by recipe. You can split the difference between two loads but should not go higher or lower than the chart shows.

    3. and has any one had good luck with Winchester 452AA(i know452aa is alot finer) over green or red?

    W452AA was a good powder. They don't make it any more. Get some current data FREE in print or on the Internet and see what they say about Winchester Super Target, WST.

    4. can i sub 209 primers for cci 157?

    No. 157 primers were the old Remington size and even they don't use them any more. They are not easy to find even if you have some of the old shells that need them. 209 started out a Winchester product but about everybody makes that size now. But they are NOT interchangeable. Go by the book. Get some new books or FREE literature.
  • Options
    MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member, Moderator Posts: 9,978 ******
    edited November -1
    JUST TO NOTE, YOU CAN PUT 209 PRIMERS IN A CASE THAT TOOK THE 157'S BUT THE CASE WILL NEVER WORK WITH 157'S AGAIN. ALSO YOU SHOULD CHECK YOUR BUSHINGS WITH A GOOD SCALE, JUST BECAUSE SOME CHART SAY'S #X BUSHING WILL DROP X# GRAINS OF 'RED DOT' DOSEN'T MEAN IT ACTUALLY WILL
  • Options
    toad67toad67 Member Posts: 13,019 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Are yoe set on using red or green dot? I reload alot of trap and skeet shells. I use clays powder for trap reloads. The powder is very very clean and is pretty easy on the nose. Look into it or talk to some people at your local range.

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=250164193
  • Options
    fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by toad67
    Are yoe set on using red or green dot? I reload alot of trap and skeet shells. I use clays powder for trap reloads. The powder is very very clean and is pretty easy on the nose. Look into it or talk to some people at your local range.

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=250164193


    hay toad. not particually set on it how ever. were i buy my my supplies green/red dot is mostly what they carry on Reg basis. Thanks for the info our powder i will deff ask look into it
  • Options
    Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,240 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hodgdon's "Clays" line was developed in the 80s to directly compete with Alliant's runaway successful line of "Dots." They chose the name to appeal to shotgun sports with their clay targets (not because there is actual clay in the powder, as some silly folks believe.)

    Clays is the Red Dot equivalent, and is actually a tiny bit faster burning in most uses.

    International was developed specifically to duplicate shotshells for European-style shooting, and is not recommended for metallic cartridge use.

    Universal is the equivalent for Unique, and also is a wee bit faster burning. I still have samples of Clays and Universal from the very first production lot, and they look a little bit different than today's powders, but burn the same. They are made in Australia, using the same powder technology as Hodgdon's Extreme line. Good stuff.

    Unless you can't tell the difference between the words CLAYS and UNIVERSAL either in the printed data or on the powder jugs, you should have no confusion in using these excellent powders.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • Options
    Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,370 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote: were i buy my my supplies green/red dot is mostly what they carry

    There have been several barge loads of shotgun shells loaded with Red Dot. If that is what you can get, there is plenty of load data.
    Do be careful to use recent data, the primer, wad, and hull all make a difference in shotshell loading. Years ago, we had a guy wreck a gun because he did not reduce his load when he changed from the old card wads to plastic wads that seal the pressure so much better.

    I tried cramming 209 primers into some free 157 hulls and decided it was more trouble than it was worth. I still have a few 157 primers bought to get some use out of those shells.
  • Options
    Alan RushingAlan Rushing Member Posts: 9,002 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is mostly new material for me.

    I'm going to read all back through it again to glean more yet more.

    Thanks for the question fl23in and thanks for the information everyone. [^]
  • Options
    fl23infl23in Member Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    yea thank you all for the info. As i stated i was ONLY ref my questions off old data. however that being said i got most of my questions answered. I have since been on the maker of green/red site and downloaded CURRENT info so no to worry.
  • Options
    bambambambambambam Member Posts: 4,814 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Green Dot is more for 1100-1250fps. Red Dot is for 1150-1200fps. With the componets I use.(Win 209, WT12 Orange Wad, AA or Gun Club hull 1 1/8oz.)

    With Green Dot you will consume more powder per shot.(3 grains more than Red Dot)

    452AA like said before is not made anymore. I have some at home my uncle gave me. I havent used it yet, but old reloaders said it was a good powder. Hodgdon Trap 100 load data is what you use for the 452AA.

    Kind of my process on loading shotshells.

    1. Determine requirements of the load. Ex, shot size & weight, & speed.

    2. Look for the componets that are the most economical. Ex, If I have 2 or 3 powders that meet my criteria I select the powder that used the least amount of charge.

    3. Find primers, wads, and hulls that compliment the powder choice. Ex, I could use expensive WAA12 wads or the WT12 orange wads that are much cheaper. They pretty much are the same wad as far as load data goes for MY load I shoot.

    Last thing about you loader and bushings. I had one of those LoadALL's.

    Just because your chart says that the #97 bushing drops 30 grains of POKA DOT doesn't mean it will.(all fictional examples)

    Use a good relaoding scale to double check your charges. Check the 5th or 6th charge when you set up, then every 5 after for about 15 rounds. If the charges are consistantly the same grains you need, you are ok.

    If your on the fence with bushing. Ex, going over or under the charge weight, under is the safer choice.

    Be safe and have fun![:D]
Sign In or Register to comment.