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.44 Colt Army 1860 -- It's a beauty! and a Keeper

theprofessortheprofessor Member Posts: 37 ✭✭
Just bought a Colt 1860 Army .44cal. no manual or info with pistol so what ball size round is best to use? I see that both .451 and .454 are available?? any recommendation for use with a Colt manufactured pistol. ( actually not certain that I will shot it as it is still a virgin !) it has a stamp on the left side lower frame: ( COLTS PATENT US )

also what powder charge is recommended with: fffG

Comments

  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,609 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Buy a box of .454
    Try a few, you need to shave off a little thin circle of lead, a lead "donut" while you load that ball. If you aren't shaving that donut the ball is too small and you need to go up to .457
    I like 28 grains of fffg, on top of that a lubed wad, and a .457 ball.

    Also, even though #11 caps are recommended, you probably will do better with #10.
  • rgergergerge Member Posts: 183 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have good luck with .451 round ball, I use the .454 in my walker
  • ken44-40ken44-40 Member Posts: 201 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I use .454s in all my .44 Colt style revolvers (Uberti, Colt, Pietta, Euroarms) with 24 gr fffg, a wad, and #10 Remington caps on Treso nipples. Keeps it simple, and works well.
  • theprofessortheprofessor Member Posts: 37 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the info. I am trying to get to range in next few days to try out both .451 and .454. I should atleast be in the ballpark with these as a start.

    Decided not to shoot this pistol, plan to keep it in OEM condition.
  • range duderange dude Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have both an 1860 and a 1858 New Army. I use .451 in both. Use about 15 grains of 3F. I find that using #10 when the nipples are spotless works well. After the first set of shots, if I do not thoroughly clean the nipples, #11 fit.
  • crstrodecrstrode Member Posts: 8 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    It depends on the manufacturer - if it is reall a Colt made gun, and it has never been fired, I suggest you don't. This gun is worth five figures.

    However, it is probably made by either Pietta or Uberti. I have a Pietta made 1860 that shoots either .451 or .454.

    'm not much of a tack driver, however the accuracy iis comparable with both ball sizes. The .451 balls are much easier to seat, and still cut a thin lead ring. the ,454 balls take a bit more of a push to get them going.

    As far as a load goes, these guns were designed to have the cylinders filled to the top and the ball seated to compress the charge. However, that is probably about 35 grains which is more than necessary, and will not give you more velocity that a charge of 25 to 30 grains.

    If you do choose to use a grossly underpowered charge of 15 grains or so, it is wise to use a wad or some filler(such as corn meal) betwent he ball and powder. This will ensure the charge is properly compressed and will reduce the chance of overpressure from a non-compressed charge.
  • theprofessortheprofessor Member Posts: 37 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The pistol is in fact a Colt manufacture. It is a 2nd Generation Colt Army 1860 44cal. It is a limited edition F1202 manufactured in 1979. It has a stamp on left side frame: Colts Patent US.

    After looking into the deatials of pistol I have decided to not shoot it. I don't know the value but don't think it is as high a price as noted above ( assume this was $ for 1860's manufactured Colt Army.)

    Any ideas on this 1979 2nd Generation. I think it was limited edition of 500 sold as US Cav sets ?

    corrections made

    Colt 1860 Army

    P9050003.JPG

    1860b.JPG
  • Spider7115Spider7115 Member Posts: 29,704 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That's not a Cavalry commemorative. Those were made in 1977 as sets of two guns and a shoulder stock. They were also specially serial-numbered beginning with "US" on one gun and ending with the letters "US" on the matching gun in the serial number.

    Yours is a standard "F" series 1860 Army. If you still have the original black box, it's probably in the neighborhood of $650. Without the box, probably $550-$600.

    That's a nice case. It looks like one of Bill Shumate's cases.
  • theprofessortheprofessor Member Posts: 37 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
    That's not a Cavalry commemorative. Those were made in 1977 as sets of two guns and a shoulder stock. They were also specially serial-numbered beginning with "US" on one gun and ending with the letters "US" on the matching gun in the serial number.

    Yours is a standard "F" series 1860 Army. If you still have the original black box, it's probably in the neighborhood of $650. Without the box, probably $550-$600.

    That's a nice case. It looks like one of Bill Shumate's cases.


    Thanks for info. I made the pistolcase, it was my initial attempt at building case for my own use. I learned alot about what not to do, but it turned out pretty good. I also made the accoutrements in the case, The cartridge packet ( actually have a .44cal one - pictured is a .36 cal) the Elay tin and the Loading Instruction sheet.

    Spider.do all of the Colt .44 have the US stamp on left side of frame??
  • ken44-40ken44-40 Member Posts: 201 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    All of the 2nd Gen 1860 Armies had the US on the frame. Yours was made somewhere between 1978 and 1980 (If I read the SN right). 5th edition Blue Book of Modern BP Arms lists the 1860 NIB with the black box at $750. Subtract $100 if you dont have the box. 98% value is in the $525 range.
  • crstrodecrstrode Member Posts: 8 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the subject revolver was not manufactured by Colt at a Colt factory,

    This series of black powder revolvers was made by a subcontractor using parts made in Italy. Any work done in the US was probably done in Middlesex New Jersey and consisted of final fitting and inspections.

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  • ken44-40ken44-40 Member Posts: 201 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    2nd Gens are Colts, were marketed, sold and warranted by Colt; and will letter from Colt. The fact that they were assembled and finished using parts from Italy as well as the US has absolutely nothing to do with their status as a Colt. Quoting from the article:

    "Under the subcontractor agreement to produce 2nd Generation percussion models, Imperato's responsibilities were to manufacture the revolvers to Colt's strict specifications, then ship the finished product to its Hartford facilities. Colt's then performed final inspection and shipped the revolvers to distributors. This is why Colt historical letters for 2nd Generation percussion revolvers contain exactly the same type of information one finds in letters for original percussion models, Single Action Armys and other models."

    In Dennis Russels book on the 2nd Gens, he states the frames, loading lever assemblies and hammers were regularly shipped for case hardening from Iver Johnson to Colt's manufacturing facilities in Connecticut.
  • theprofessortheprofessor Member Posts: 37 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
    That's not a Cavalry commemorative. Those were made in 1977 as sets of two guns and a shoulder stock. They were also specially serial-numbered beginning with "US" on one gun and ending with the letters "US" on the matching gun in the serial number.

    Yours is a standard "F" series 1860 Army. If you still have the original black box, it's probably in the neighborhood of $650. Without the box, probably $550-$600.

    That's a nice case. It looks like one of Bill Shumate's cases.



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  • Spider7115Spider7115 Member Posts: 29,704 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ken44-40
    2nd Gens are Colts, were marketed, sold and warranted by Colt; and will letter from Colt. The fact that they were assembled and finished using parts from Italy as well as the US has absolutely nothing to do with their status as a Colt. Quoting from the article:

    "Under the subcontractor agreement to produce 2nd Generation percussion models, Imperato's responsibilities were to manufacture the revolvers to Colt's strict specifications, then ship the finished product to its Hartford facilities. Colt's then performed final inspection and shipped the revolvers to distributors. This is why Colt historical letters for 2nd Generation percussion revolvers contain exactly the same type of information one finds in letters for original percussion models, Single Action Armys and other models."

    In Dennis Russels book on the 2nd Gens, he states the frames, loading lever assemblies and hammers were regularly shipped for case hardening from Iver Johnson to Colt's manufacturing facilities in Connecticut.



    Ken is 100% correct. "Second Generation" Colts will letter from the factory and are considered to be genuine Colts. However, the Third Generation "Signature Series" are not since they were made under license by Colt Blackpowder Firearms Company of Brooklyn, NY, now operating as Henry Repeating Firearms Company.
  • rgergergerge Member Posts: 183 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by crstrode
    It depends on the manufacturer - if it is reall a Colt made gun, and it has never been fired, I suggest you don't. This gun is worth five figures.

    However, it is probably made by either Pietta or Uberti. I have a Pietta made 1860 that shoots either .451 or .454.

    'm not much of a tack driver, however the accuracy iis comparable with both ball sizes. The .451 balls are much easier to seat, and still cut a thin lead ring. the ,454 balls take a bit more of a push to get them going.

    As far as a load goes, these guns were designed to have the cylinders filled to the top and the ball seated to compress the charge. However, that is probably about 35 grains which is more than necessary, and will not give you more velocity that a charge of 25 to 30 grains.

    If you do choose to use a grossly underpowered charge of 15 grains or so, it is wise to use a wad or some filler(such as corn meal) betwent he ball and powder. This will ensure the charge is properly compressed and will reduce the chance of overpressure from a non-compressed charge.

    Five figures?! In what, Dinars?
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