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Power belts vs. sabots

twogunkellytwogunkelly Member Posts: 51 ✭✭
Howdy :I just bought a thompson omega .50cal for deer and elk hunting....Power belts claim to be more accurate 100yd.s out and farther....The cd with the gun claims sabots are more accurate than bore size bullets....what would you suggest?????Thanks

Comments

  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,609 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Power belts are good bullets. I doubt they are more accurate than saboted loads.
    Most guys I know shoot sabots with the Omega.
  • OdawgpOdawgp Member Posts: 5,380 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    my experience is that they are more accurate than saboted bullets I have tried barnes,txp's,and hornady bullets saboted

    the power belts were more accurate and easier to load in my Encore 209x50

    Don't load them too hot or you might lose an animal (I did [V]), and use the biggest one you can get to shoot well
  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've hunted with my T/C Omega 50 for five years and I always use sabots. The work fine for me. I've tried some different weights, but it doesn't seem to change much. I use two Hodgdon Triple Seven pellets and they seem to work fine except for that nasty crud ring! Sounds like the new 209's made for muzzle loaders might help, but I don't want to lose ignition!

    What do you all think ... are new 209's made for muzzle loaders the way to go? [?]
  • OdawgpOdawgp Member Posts: 5,380 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by andersk
    I've hunted with my T/C Omega 50 for five years and I always use sabots. The work fine for me. I've tried some different weights, but it doesn't seem to change much. I use two Hodgdon Triple Seven pellets and they seem to work fine except for that nasty crud ring! Sounds like the new 209's made for muzzle loaders might help, but I don't want to lose ignition!

    What do you all think ... are new 209's made for muzzle loaders the way to go? [?]


    I don't think they are worth a damm, I will deal with the crude ring before I use those MZ 209 primers again..elkoholic had also purchased some to use during is bull elk hunt a yr ago and he didn't like them and switched back to the standard ones. I have so many 209's I will never have to buy another 209 primer for muzzle loading the rest of my life
  • CryptoChiefCryptoChief Member Posts: 100 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I use the power belts in weights from 338 to 405 in my 50 and 405 in my 54 simply because my 700ML won't shoot the sabots with any degree of accuracy. I use heavy because I believe they work better on game and they are more reliable in poking a hole completely through the animal, which to me, is preferable. I would recommend using the biggest of what ever shoots the best throughout the range a feller expects to be shooting at game. As far as the 209 BP primers - junk, crap, questionable, whatever. They are weak/unreliable and I have had several "snap - bangs" this year. Went back to the CCI 209 shot shell primers and have never looked back. My opinion is to toss the BP 209's.

    CC
  • crowbeanercrowbeaner Member Posts: 40 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I tried the Powerbelts, and they just don't shoot well in my CVA. I went to the T/C sabot made for 44 bullets and a Hornady 44 caliber swaged lead HP bullet over 100 grains of bulk Pyrodex. This combo will shoot into 1 1/2" at 100 yards with careful loading, and the knockdown power is quite impressive. I've taken 4 deer with this load, and all were dead right there. Maybe in an Austin and Halleck the Powerbelts will work OK, but I'm sticking with what I have; it ain't broke, and don't need fixing.
  • HAWKEYE 50HAWKEYE 50 Member Posts: 20 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    You Guy's need to try Blackhorn 209, Crud is sooo Old School.
  • BikerBobBikerBob Member Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I tend to agree with Crowbeaner.
    We have 2 CVAs both 50's. It seems to me that the T/C hollow point sabots are more consistent in both of these. Granted the Powerbelts are easier to load in a dirty barrel, but when you get one shot you have to go with what you can get consistency with. Good knockdown too, my son was 2 for 2 on bucks this year.

    Maybe different makes prefer different bullets?
  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've been using the Triple Seven pellets and T/C 240 grain Cheap Shots and T/C Mag Express Sabots with 240 grain XTP Bullets for the last four years in my Omega 50 with no problem other than the crud ring, which I've learned to live with.

    I don't see what the big deal is with the power belts other than the high price! The T/C Sabots slide down the barrel just fine.

    This year, however, I had some 300 grain Hornady XTP bullets lying around, and thought I'd give them a try ... I sighted in at the 100 yard range and thought I was OK and decided to not mess around checking to see how high I would be at 50 yards. I did this partially because I only had five bullets left. And the Hornady Sabots were a whole lot harder to slide down the pipe!

    So on the second day of deer season I have a nice yearling fork horn at 40 yards and down in the ravine straight in front of my stand. Yup, you know what happened ... I shot right over the deer! And THEN I went back to the range and I'm 6 inches high at 50 yards! I discovered one deer too late! I should have realized that with a muzzle loader and a 300 grain bullet, it would be dropping quite a bit.

    Most of my shots are in the 50 yard category, but last year I got a buck at 85 yards. So I thought, OK this year I'll sight in for 100 yards and try a heavier bullet. Bad decision. Holding low on a deer at 40 or 50 yards just does not FEEL right!

    I'm going back to the T/C's ... I ordered them on line from the T/C Catalogue, and they came 1 1/2 days later. Can't beat that! I'm a slow learner, but I do get the point!
  • Guns & GlassGuns & Glass Member Posts: 864 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just to name a few.....what influences any shot made....?

    Barrel length,
    Barrel rifling,
    Barrel quality of manufacture,
    Barrel cleaness,
    Tempature,
    Humidity,
    Barometric pressure,
    Trigger lock time,
    Powder type used,
    Powder volume/weight,
    Powder storage/quality,
    Initial ignition source. Pan, Musket cap, 209 primer used,
    Condition of flash hole,
    Thickness of sabot,
    Sabot material,
    Condition of sabot,
    Bullet diameter used w/sabot,
    Condition of bullet,
    Shape of bullet,
    Technique of loading powder,
    Technique of loading bullet,
    Tampimg technique-pressure,
    Stock condition,
    Stock fit,
    How rifle is positioned on the rifle rest,
    How the rifle is REpositioned on the rifle,
    Quality and positioning of the rifle rest
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Shooters ability, aka the weakest link.


    Not withstanding shooters who have spent sometime AND $$$$ to 'experiment, to just say one is so much better for sany and all rifle, powder, bullet, loading, enviroment applications is leaving alot out of the equation.

    Trt doing a 'search' on the subject going back 'in the year' and you'll find a heck of alot of interesting reading.
  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think Guns & Glass is right on. However many of the things on he pretty complete list may only have a small effect ... especially compared trajectory issues with Black Powder guns. I my latest miss I was simply sighted in for 100 yards (and I shot enough that I am reasonably confident at that distance - maybe a bit less after reading his list!) but I did not check to see just how far off I would be at 50 yards! I do think this was my biggest error on this miss!

    So, I would add to trajectory issues with Black Powder guns his good list.
  • tazz1958tazz1958 Member Posts: 214 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have tried many brands and makes of bullets and sabots. I have found in my experiences that powerbelts work good in remingtons, but are very hard to load after first shot. I like the dead center saboted bullets loaded with 90 grains of fffg. I have shot them in custom guns, knights, and thompsons and had great groups and deer stopped in their tracks. I have found that they don't like magnum loads,+ they are easy to load even after 10-15 shots. my 2cents
  • Guns & GlassGuns & Glass Member Posts: 864 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There are more variables w/blackpowder then centerfire and it's more difficult to get a good accurate handle on issues.

    There are even difference between Inline vs. Flint Lock (my favorite)

    Please examine my posts and I hope one will find they don't out right refute with an attitude of getting in one's face, but rathger that of exp[lainations of influencing factors.

    Each item has some effect, some more or less that others........ but there's a cumulative effect that more often than not isn't factored into the 'experiment' nevertheless produces a final outcome.

    For example: shooting at 100 yds, for every 0.001 (one thousandth)movement...in any and all directions equals about 1". Human hair (from the head) varies from 0.015 (1 1/2 thousandths) to 0.009 (9 thousandths). So it's about 1 1/2" to 9 inches! Little means alot.

    tazz1958 post can(not enough info) be explained by lubricant, bore condition, brand of powder or pellet, type of Power Belt, bullet type (lead vs. copper vs. new platinum), actual bore diameter thur the barrel length, and loading technique will all influence results.

    Rememeber it wasn't too long ago that a certain manufacture was saying, "...there's no such thing as a crud ring".

    By simply changing some things you can easily vary results, and sometimes when trying things we think of ...or read about that we should work and don't becomes frustrating.

    I have the opportunity to hunt w/some writers who often sit and scratch their heads, but one has quietly openly admitted that when they get products to test, or take trips they have to be careful how they word, and present things if they want to get paid...and get more work.
  • chigerchiger Member Posts: 40 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey guys,

    This is so interesting, I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in the pile. And it's not really about sabots or power belts, cause I found out 30 years ago that my traditional slow twist T/C rifles won't shoot 'um to satisfy me. If it won't cut holes, I'm not impressed. ;~) But it's related.

    My thoughts are on something several of you guys have touched on. We can't load accuracy into our guns on a bench. We have to do it in the field. It's amazing how guys will spend hours loading match grade 7mm boat tailed HP ammunition for an Elk hunt and then grab their black powder out of the case, pour powder down the barrel, stuff a round down the hole, let 'er rip at a pie plate and say the load is great, sucks or whatever.

    For us, the field is the bench. Guns and Glass left some things off his list, naturally, because he'd have eaten up a couple pages listing everything. Even the direction the weave in patches is turned effects accuracy. And mechanicals like that are the only thing we can truly control. Consistency of process is the only way you can get accurate testing data. If the experience of shooting...I don't know how may, gotta be at least 10,000 rounds though my 54 Cal Renegade over the last 30 years has taught me, it's that process is accuracy.

    If I swab between the first and second shot and not the second, third and fourth...I'm just shooting, not testing! If I only shoot 10 rounds with 100 grains with less than expected results because I want it to be hot and don't try 10 at 75, 80 or even a 110 grains...you guessed it. I'm just shootin'.

    Different guns, even from the same maker and caliber can shoot loads radically different. All other things being equal. It's important to keep that in mind when we do our testing. But before I write anything off or commit to a particular load, you can bet I'll be testing it in my way, with my gun, using my absolutely PERFECT technique! ;~)

    Just kidding about that last bit. I'm only nearly perfect. ;~0

    chiger,
  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I sure do not want to offend anybody, nor do I want to get picky ... but I do think that trajectory issues with Black Powder guns should be added because it is probably a bigger factor than most of the things on his pretty good list. And it is dealt with by more range time with the precise loading that we are going to use hunting and practicing at different distances.
  • yugritinyugritin Member Posts: 40 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a inline .45 CVA that is almost as accurate with sabots as it is with powerbelts. my accuracy was effected by the load and me of coarse. When I first bought it I was running 100 grains and would have been lucky to hit the broad side of a barn. The I cut the load down 60 grains and it became a naildriver. The difference between sabots and powerbelts is so marginal that its ridiculous. Accuracy in black powder depends on you and the amount of powder down that barrel.
  • surekillsurekill Member Posts: 1,926 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    PowerBelts would be on the bottom of my list of bullets to use.
    Poor penetration they would only get 6-8" in our ballistic jell.[xx(]
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