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WTB 1873 Model P, Recommendations?

rmartrmart Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
edited October 2009 in Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting
I'm looking at the American Western Arms Ultimate 1873 http://www.awaguns.com/PDFs/Cat21Ultimate.pdf
or the Cimarron Arms Pistolero http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/Specialty/Pistolero.htm

I like the Colt but feel that the extra money for the prancing pony is too rich for my blood.
I like the Ruger Vaquero but don't like the case-hardened "finish" as much as the actual bone case hardening on the AWA and the Cimarron.

Anyone have any thoughts? Or even other recommendations I've not considered?
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Comments

  • dandak1dandak1 Member Posts: 450 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Reconsider the Colt. Prices for used ones have dropped (just won one for $100 more than what the AWA lists at), and you get more than the prancing pony. People have sometimes badmouthed the fit and finish but in my experience I have not seen that..all I have seen have ranged from excellent to immaculate. It will hold its value also. I have owned or shot Rugers and USFA, and once I went Colt I was hooked. As far as your specific models, I have handled an AWA in a gunstore and found it good, but have never shot one. Cimarron has been around awhile and others can weigh in on this brand.
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  • 44caliberkid44caliberkid Member Posts: 925 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    AWA's are over priced Italian repros that have a very good, high gloss blue finish. The Ultimate also has a coil spring conversion for the main spring that gives the cocking action a pretty good feel. But once it's a used pistol, it loses quite a bit of it's value, which the Colt won't.
    My personal experiance with three AWA's is: 1873 model in 44 special, had chamber mouths that were too small (.425) and would swage the bullet down to a loose fit in the bore, making for lousy accuracy. It didn't group, it patterned.
    Another 1873 in .357, that was a pretty decent gun.
    And a third, Ultimate 1873 in 44-40, that they didn't screw the barrel all the way in, making the front sight cant to the right. I gave it to a gunsmith friend who put it in a barrel vise and straightened that out. But it also had a hand that had been filed down too short and would miss the star and slip when fully loaded with ammo. (worked OK when empty) So I bought a new hand and fitted it.
    All three guns had great bluing and case colors. I've also heard that the gunsmith at AWA is really good and fixes most of their troubles in short order. He must get lots of practice. By the way, I bought all three of these pieces for $350 each, and all were unfired, NIB. I only kept the 44-40 Ultimate, the rest are someone elses problem.
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  • rmartrmart Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dandak1
    Reconsider the Colt. Prices for used ones have dropped (just won one for $100 more than what the AWA lists at)...

    The AWA with case hardening lists at $725. I don't see a case hardened/blued/5.5"/.45LC Colt on GB for under $1,000 used or new.
    I'm not discounting what you're saying and I very much respect the Colt heritage and history, but even a new one with a 4 3/4" barrel at Cabela's is over $1,200.

    If I were looking at the USFA offerings I'd likely choose the Colt over the USFA because the price diff isn't that much. I'd sure like the Colt but at $500 over their
    competitors, that's a heck of a lot of ammo...

    44CKs comments about his experience with AWA does give me pause. I thought once AWA went under, was sold, and came back up again they had their bugs worked out. Perhaps my info is bad. I sure haven't seen any AWA Ultimates for $350 but I don't run in the western enthusiast crowd either. (Not much interest in that in the Chicago area).

    Oh, and one more thing. I notice that the Colt's grips are secured with a transverse bolt/screw running through them. The copies have solid sided grips that I suppose are secured through a screw in the bottom. Is it possible to get a Colt with that style grip instead of the screw through the side?

    Thanks for all your comments. Please keep them coming.

    R
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  • 44caliberkid44caliberkid Member Posts: 925 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Colt (and clone) grips that don't have a screw are one solid piece of wood. The grip frame backstrap traps them between it and the front strap/trigger guard. Keep an eye out for used AWA's. Search GB every day, especially after Sunday night. Be patient, you'll find one. Most of their problems (if any) are fairly easy to fix.
    Actually, price an EMF Great Western. They are made by Pietta and are very good quality. The new AWA's are also Pietta parts, so it's the same gun for 2/3rd the price.
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  • dandak1dandak1 Member Posts: 450 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    [quote
    The AWA with case hardening lists at $725. I don't see a case hardened/blued/5.5"/.45LC Colt on GB for under $1,000 used or new.
    I just won one last week on gunbroker EXACTLY as you describe (CH, BL, 5.5", .45LC, but used) for $811. Shot it today and one of the test groups was a 1.6" group at 25 yards bench using IMR 4227. I missed one the week before NEW in 357 mag for 850 buy it now. They are out there.
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  • rmartrmart Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'll keep my eye out. Thanks for responding.
    Is the Colt frame actually Turnbull bone and charcoal case hardened, or is the case hardened finish just a finish that will wear off over time?

    R
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  • dandak1dandak1 Member Posts: 450 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Colts SAA's sport genuine color case hardening, ( as do their second and thid generation percussion revolvers). My ruger 32 mag has the case coloring "finish" and it is rather weak...I much prefer the real thing. I wish ruger made the real hardening an option as many would go that route. Cimarron has some good colors...one of the nicest colors i have actually handled was on a cimarron 1873 rifle, so they do know what they are doing with it.
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  • rmartrmart Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Colt P1850... Colt P2850...

    Where can I find a spec sheet showing which models have which features?

    I see different generations, different model numbers, even different names. Colt Cowboy, Colt Frontier...

    Confusing. I've decided I'd rather spend the extra money for a Colt but, I'd like to know what to look for.

    R
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  • hdcolt51hdcolt51 Member Posts: 4,585 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My .02.Look for a Colt that says Colt Single Action Army on the barrel.If it says colt cowboy it's not a real colt, made in Italy or spain I think? The cowboys were junk a few years ago,selling for 350-450.Now I see them selling for more than a Colt SAA,$1400 at a show last weekend.At that same show I bought a Colt SAA NIB 4 3/4 barrel in 45 for 1100 out the door. Never have shot AWA but saw two for $750 each
    The Colt Frontier is a 22 I believe.Last year they were around 350 now aroung 500. I have had uberti's never had a problem with them,cimarron's are nice.STI makes a very nice one but cost more than a Colt.IMO stay away from the Beretta and Taurus.Colt SAA is the way to go. Good luck in your quest they are out there.
    There are 1st,2nd,3rd generations,3rd being most recent productions think they started around 1968 but not positve on that.2nd generations in good condition are expensive.1st generations in good condition are really expensive
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