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Dock Engineering Question

GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932
edited March 2015 in General Discussion
The posts in the water are not set in concrete and were set 3' in the ground with a backhoe. I'm afraid with the weight of the dock it will force down the dock into the water.

Was thinking about building the frame and sitting all the boards on the front of the dock to force it down as far as it will go, then reset the frame to level and build the dock. The posts on the shore are set in concrete.

Any suggestions?


photo_zps1f4bcb9f.png
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Comments

  • m88.358winm88.358win Member Posts: 7,272 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bad link

    Never mind
  • gearheaddadgearheaddad Member Posts: 15,096 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't think the weight of the dock or even with people on the dock will affect a thing. It will be solid.
    Mount the cross pieces with bolts or screws so you can adjust if the ice raises the poles over time.
  • CubsloverCubslover Member Posts: 18,601 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sittin on the dock of the bay
    Half of the lives they tell about me aren't true.
  • MG1890MG1890 Member Posts: 4,649
    edited November -1
    Swat them a few times with a maul. If they don't move, you are golden. If they do, you will never stop them from moving.

    PS - Ice will pull them up....
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,041 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Concrete sets very well under water, but not at those temps.

    But that would require undoing a lot of stuff.

    Just set the dock 10 to 12" above waterline. That way if it settles a few inches it will not be a problem.
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by MG1890
    Swat them a few times with a maul. If they don't move, you are golden. If they do, you will never stop them from moving.

    PS - Ice will pull them up....
    They are way too tall to hit with anything other than maybe a large trac hoe.
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,460 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No problem, Mr. Cheese.

    Over time the posts in the water will sink in the mud and your dock will become a waterslide.

    I would think a 6' minimum for depth of the posts, especially when you factor in wave action and tidal surges.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • MaxOHMSMaxOHMS Member Posts: 14,715
    edited November -1
    I assume that you "hammered" them down with the hoe bucket.

    Even if you are that huge guy we have all seen at the gun shows.......sitting there asleep with a book and a pastry in his hands, you will not push them down any further.
  • k.stanonikk.stanonik Member Posts: 2,109 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Floatation ( plastic 55 gal drums) under the structure should aid in the prevention of shrinkage.
  • GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by k.stanonik
    Floatation ( plastic 55 gal drums) under the structure should aid in the prevention of shrinkage.
    brilliant!
  • MG1890MG1890 Member Posts: 4,649
    edited November -1
    "floating" docks are normal here in NY. So are wheels on the end and pulling the dock out of the water for winter.
  • gearheaddadgearheaddad Member Posts: 15,096 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    We typically drive in 4X4's with a sledge hammer until we feel there down enough. Then go from there. Those big posts won't sink any further. Especially once they are all tied together with framing and decking.
    It's a pier, don't over think it!!
  • asphalt cowboyasphalt cowboy Member Posts: 8,904 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by GuvamintCheese
    quote:Originally posted by k.stanonik
    Floatation ( plastic 55 gal drums) under the structure should aid in the prevention of shrinkage.
    brilliant!


    Use metal collars around the posts and attach them to the deck so the deck can 'float' on the posts.
  • GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by gearheaddad
    We typically drive in 4X4's with a sledge hammer until we feel there down enough. Then go from there. Those big posts won't sink any further. Especially once they are all tied together with framing and decking.
    It's a pier, don't over think it!!
    I hear you and the reason I'm overthinking it is because 1. I fear they aren't deep enough in the ground and, 2. I'd like to cantalever the dock 3' past the posts addin even more down pressure.
  • MaxOHMSMaxOHMS Member Posts: 14,715
    edited November -1
    So.............did you hammer them down with the backhoe?
  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    Having a cottage with adjacent marina, here's my take on what I've seen.

    They weld up a bucket that is big enough to fit over the post end like a cap, weld on two handles, and put about 30 pounds in the top end of it. Lead, i think.

    Put it over the post and bounce it up and down a few hundred times.

    Not a job for the elderly or out of shape.

    This for pilings too far out to reach with machinery, usually done while standing on a barge.

    Not too sure that would work for your little project, but I've also seen docks that were NOT so driven into the bottom get utterly wrecked by ice.

    Still, 3 feet into the mud SHOULD be enough. I wouldn't worry about the weight of the dock pushing them down further, it looks like it will be a short dock.
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,184 ******
    edited November -1
    Three options as I see it.

    1) leave as is and build fixed height dock as planned. I don't expect the posts will sink.

    2) leave as is and build fixed height dock as planned. If one or more posts sink over time, fix it. This will be years down the road.

    3) build a floating dock that uses rings around the piers to keep it from moving around. Any number of ways to make your dock float, including air filled plastic jugs (7 gallon containers), styrofoam, etc.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • gearheaddadgearheaddad Member Posts: 15,096 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by GuvamintCheese
    quote:Originally posted by gearheaddad
    We typically drive in 4X4's with a sledge hammer until we feel there down enough. Then go from there. Those big posts won't sink any further. Especially once they are all tied together with framing and decking.
    It's a pier, don't over think it!!
    I hear you and the reason I'm overthinking it is because 1. I fear they aren't deep enough in the ground and, 2. I'd like to cantalever the dock 3' past the posts addin even more down pressure.

    No problem at all.
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,723 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    Three options as I see it.

    1) leave as is and build fixed height dock as planned. I don't expect the posts will sink.

    2) leave as is and build fixed height dock as planned. If one or more posts sink over time, fix it. This will be years down the road.

    3) build a floating dock that uses rings around the piers to keep it from moving around. Any number of ways to make your dock float, including air filled plastic jugs (7 gallon containers), styrofoam, etc.


    Great idea and my first thought as I have seen plenty of this kind.
    What's next?
  • GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by MaxOHMS
    So.............did you hammer them down with the backhoe?
    No, my hoe not big enough.
  • 317wc317wc Member Posts: 924 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ++++ on the floating dock, stainless steel u-bolts looped around the piling and attached to to the dock. You can get 55 gallon drums from restaurants or car-washes, industrial places, that sort of thing. I'm not 100% sure but I believe that a gallon of airspace provides 8 pounds of bouyancy, so use that figure to calculate how many barrels you will need.
  • 317wc317wc Member Posts: 924 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 317wc
    ++++ on the floating dock, stainless steel u-bolts looped around the piling and attached to to the dock. You can get 55 gallon drums from restaurants or car-washes, industrial places, that sort of thing. I'm not 100% sure but I believe that a gallon of airspace provides 8 pounds of bouyancy, so use that figure to calculate how many barrels you will need.



    PS we once used the barrel float method to float a weir post/base that had washed out into the bay where we were located. It was a tripod, 10' tall and made of scrap railroad line, we used something like 5-6 barrels chained to it and when the tide came up, we attached a line and dragged it back into place, worked like a charm.
  • CaptFunCaptFun Member Posts: 16,678 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dennisnielsen
    We jetted our pilings in at the lakehouse.

    Pipe with a nozzle or flattened end hookedup to a waterhose worked around the piling.

    Washes right on down

    All the pilings on our docks in Mobile bay were jetted in. The pilings were usually there after the hurricane had removed most of the warf. Occasionally we had to replace a few.
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,664 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    3' down it wont move, that is about as deep as a telephone pole and they carry LOTS of weight. You are not that heavy, yet.

    The floating dock is the way to go, get the galvanized hardware and use the posts for a guide, you can still go out 3' with no problems.
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,041 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Jetting is the method they use in San Diego.

    Watched them jet concrete pilings when the repaired and improved Islandia Marina in Mission Bay.
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • LesWVaLesWVa Member Posts: 10,490 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Should have went with a floating AccuDock from Dock Accents and been done with it. You could have gotten a 12x16' for less than $6000. Or a couple of 4x8' work floats ($550 each) and added to them as you see fit or the need arises later on.
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    rent a pile driving "vibrator" that attaches to a backhoe.
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,184 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
    Plastic barrels, spray them with real bedliner epoxy if economical.

    Don't use rings, use cable, chain or a decent marine rope.

    Of course they will sink.

    But you probably have a good ten years before worrying.

    Hinge the deck to the rear posts, a piece of sucker rod through bore holes in the shore posts will last a very long time.
    Why not? Works on the docks on lake Coeur d' Alene, and I suspect they see a lot more wave activity than this pond ever will produce.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • OakieOakie Member Posts: 40,519 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just a suggestion. First off, you are fine the way it is. My grandfathers dock was the same way and never moved in thirty years. What you can do if you want is, Take a piece of 14" or 12" piece of round sheet metal pipe. Drive that into the ground in the water. Take a pump and siphon all the water out, and then fill it in with concrete. Done that before and works great. I started by placing a 4" patio block in the bottom of the hole before I poured the cement to let the weight displace itself. Building another one this spring at my friends pond where I now fish.Oakie.
  • proappproapp Member Posts: 3,264
    edited November -1
    boathouse_001.JPG

    This is before we finished it, but none of my piers are over 4 ft,
    prolly close to 3ft. That boat lift has a 24ft barge hanging in it now for 2yrs plus a modified 32x21ft carport on top of the deck.

    I don't think your gonna have a problem.
  • fishkiller41fishkiller41 Member Posts: 50,608
    edited November -1
    It's fine.Just finish it...
    And catch more of those MONSTER trout!!
    I never liked the texture of Trout,not even our "Speckled Sea trout".
    I would catch n release those big mommas !!!
    Let the kiddies have a chance to catch them a time or 3.[;)]
  • US Military GuyUS Military Guy Member Posts: 3,617 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Call some of you friends and "get er done."


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB2uHnztADU

    [:D] [:D] [:D]
  • gearheaddadgearheaddad Member Posts: 15,096 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by JustC
    rent a pile driving "vibrator" that attaches to a backhoe.

    There is a great Night stand drawer joke in here, somewhere![:D][;)][;)]
  • mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 18,297 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    +1 on the floating dock, used here on tidal waters with rings and works just fine.
    Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
  • GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by gearheaddad
    quote:Originally posted by JustC
    rent a pile driving "vibrator" that attaches to a backhoe.

    There is a great Night stand drawer joke in here, somewhere![:D][;)][;)]
    [:D]


    Thanks all. I'll post photos....
  • US Military GuyUS Military Guy Member Posts: 3,617 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by GuvamintCheese
    quote:Originally posted by gearheaddad
    quote:Originally posted by JustC
    rent a pile driving "vibrator" that attaches to a backhoe.

    There is a great Night stand drawer joke in here, somewhere![:D][;)][;)]
    [:D]


    Thanks all. I'll post photos....


    PLEASE DON'T!

    Oh, wait, are we still talking about the dock?

    OK, nevermind.

    Photos away!
  • GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932
    edited November -1
    Well, didn't go with floating barrels. Instead I cantilevered 2x12's past the last dock posts and drove in 2 steel poles.

    photo2_zpscef43fe4.jpg

    photo2_zps97d57fb1.jpg

    photo1_zpsf04a3e84.jpg
  • proappproapp Member Posts: 3,264
    edited November -1
    Looks good

    I tend to have a few Lites on my
    projects too.[:D]
  • GuvamintCheeseGuvamintCheese Member Posts: 38,932
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by proapp
    Looks good

    I tend to have a few Lites on my
    projects too.[:D]
    There were more than a few!..[:D]

    photo_zpsd4a24c1e.jpg
  • Dads3040Dads3040 Member Posts: 13,552 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Looks good! My only suggestions would be to:

    1) Add bolts through the posts lower on the 2x12's. Right now you are technically carrying the load with only the top 1/3 or so of the 2x12. If it split right there, the dock goes down.

    2) Add blocking between the 2x12's every 4 feet or so. Use 2x8's or 2x10's. That ties the 2x12's together and prevents them from deflecting under load. Makes a much more solid load diaphragm.

    Last, a good fish trainer would have dinner marching up to the house by now. [;)][:D]
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