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GOLD

waltermoewaltermoe Member Posts: 2,048 ✭✭✭✭

Gold has been doing exceptionally well in protecting against the inflation the last couple of months.

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    Lucky4597 Lucky4597 Member Posts: 365 ✭✭✭
    edited April 10

    It reminds me Walter of a story about my Dad. If y'all get tired of the "my-Dad" stories, let me know - I will probably keep on telling them, but I won't be doing it it to purposefully irritate any one. Any way, when the Hunt Bros ran up silver in the 1980's the old man gets on board and buys 1000 oz - that's about 65 lbs worth in 1 lb bars and puts it in ammo boxes in the basement. Now this is a pretty conservative guy w/$-matters so for him it was a leap. He got in around $10/oz. Man - that stuff sat there until 2009(ish) before he had me drag it up and dump w/a friend of mine who did tangible-assets, (gentrified term for pawn shop). My brother and I never let him live that down - a 20+ year break-even buy-n-hold.

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    Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,523 ✭✭✭✭

    I am seeing a 90% increase over a 15 year period. Probably not keeping up with inflation, but a darn sight better than cash under the mattress

    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
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    Lucky4597 Lucky4597 Member Posts: 365 ✭✭✭

    There are a few ways to invest "in gold". Of all of them, taking possession of actual 24k bullion is in some ways the most difficult. One will pay a premium above gold spot-price for the verified purity of Kruegerrands or Maple Leafs. You need a secure place to store it - for most of us that's not a huge issue. You also should probably insure it. But here's another thing - unless you have a bunch of cash parked, you might have to liquidate out of some other instrument to buy the gold - that equation doesn't always compute. But if you run-n-dump in some of the years w/the 20%+ runups, you could do ok. But even to make a hypothetical 20k you would need to spend some money - even if you got in at $1800/oz.

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    BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 6,520 ✭✭✭✭

    @4205raymond Those folks you see on t.v. hawking the gold are making a fortune. It doesn't matter what the price is, they make a commission on both ends of the deal. They sell at a profit and then charge you a fee if/when you cash out. Of course, their commission is in greenbacks so they can pay off their mortgages, buy groceries and anything else they need. Gold may in some ways be a hedge against inflation, but it isn't for me. Bob

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    Locust ForkLocust Fork Member Posts: 31,739 ✭✭✭✭

    Larry has taken to buying coins…..mostly silver, but he has a few gold ones lately. My father had a NICE coin collection with several gold coins. Toward the end of his life his mind didn't age well. So, all the money he had quickly went away. It turned me into a bit of a cynic. I see investments as a bit of a fairy tale in the back of my mind…..its good to have a nice safety net, but seeing what happened to my father made me see things a lot differently than I should.

    LOCUST FORK CURRENT AUCTIONS: https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Sort=13&IncludeSellers=618902&PageSize=48 Listings added every Thursday! We do consignments, contact us at mckaygunsales@gmail.com
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    4205raymond4205raymond Member Posts: 3,300 ✭✭✭✭

    BobJudy, pretty much conclusion I have come to also. I just can't see getting involved with Gold at this point in my life. ————————Ray

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    Locust ForkLocust Fork Member Posts: 31,739 ✭✭✭✭
    LOCUST FORK CURRENT AUCTIONS: https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Sort=13&IncludeSellers=618902&PageSize=48 Listings added every Thursday! We do consignments, contact us at mckaygunsales@gmail.com
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    Bubba Jr.Bubba Jr. Member Posts: 8,241 ✭✭✭✭

    I bought some gold a while back and I've already made a profit with it. Gold is only going to increase in value for the foreseeable future. 😀

    Joe

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    Lucky4597 Lucky4597 Member Posts: 365 ✭✭✭
    edited April 11

    "Foreseeable future" - hummm, so until it retreats, as it always does? I'm w/you on in/out-make-a-buck. Look at the chart I posted and you will see that it doesn't hold gains the way the indexes have over time. Just sayin'... A little color

    1980 Gold $600 - current $2400

    1980 Dow 1000 - current 38,000

    Gold is up 4x in that period, the Dow is up 38x - gold is an effective hedge, not an effective long term growth instrument.

    Looking at it another way: if you had $1.00's worth of gold in 1980 held it, and sold it now it's worth $4.00 - if you had that same 1980 $1.00 invested a passive Dow index fund and sold it now, it's worth $38.00

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    NotDraconNotDracon Member Posts: 66 ✭✭

    I knew somebody elsewhere who apparently had an estimated 2 million dollars' worth of gold hoarded but he was very likely exaggerating the value. He really did believe in gold as an investment and had a sizeable amount of it, though.

    Never had the means to invest in precious metals, myself. Even the stock market seems out of reach, albeit I've been meaning to put some dollars into Nintendo stock before they release the Switch 2. Gonna have to buckle down and commit to that once I find the time and means.

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    Lucky4597 Lucky4597 Member Posts: 365 ✭✭✭
    edited April 11
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    JunkballerJunkballer Member Posts: 9,198 ✭✭✭✭

    It's amazing to me how TV & magazine people that try to sell me GOLD saying it's more valuable than my dollars yet they only want those worthless dollars as payment 🙄. I'll just sit back and let the people that wear "bling" and "grills" have at it 😜

    "Never do wrong to make a friend----or to keep one".....Robert E. Lee

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    Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,265 ✭✭✭✭

    "It's the most expensive it's ever been! Buy now!"

    Does that make sense to anybody?

    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
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    waltermoewaltermoe Member Posts: 2,048 ✭✭✭✭

    There are a lot of myths and misconceptions about gold. First gold has never been illegal to own. The United States went off the gold standard in 1933 in order to protect are gold supply, and gold certificates and gold coins were withdrawn from circulation. Half the world was on the gold standard at the time, this prevented foreign governments from demanding gold from are reserve. If gold had been illegal to own that would have put and end to wedding rings, necklaces and even crucifix’s. President Nixon had the treasury secretary suspend, with certain exceptions, the convertibility of the dollar into gold or other reserve assets.

    I have followed gold ever since around 1980 and it has been and indicator, and hedge against inflation. In the early 80s gold did sky rocket then fall, but one has to look at what cause that. 12.5 % annual inflation. Iran taking hostages, strong oil prices.

    Fact: gold no matter what happens will always be worth something. If you bought gold in 2009 at $800 an ounce be fore Obama’s shovel ready jobs, and you sell that gold today, you don’t have to pay taxes on it, account of it’s a commodity. And you don’t pay taxes on it when you buy it either. Let me correct that in, if you sell over $10,000 worth of gold in one day you have to report it on a some type of form.
    The reason I have gold is more self protection you might say. If the dollar would collapse and become worth less, I still want to be able to pay my taxes and stop foreclosure on my property. People lost property during the depression account of not being able to paying taxes more than anything.

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    Lucky4597 Lucky4597 Member Posts: 365 ✭✭✭

    Hey! It's been my exact strategy buying some of these new Colt revolvers and it's worked PERFECTLY! See, I get one like 6 months before someone else who waits and buys the exact same one and pays a few hundred less - man, do i feel bad for those dopes...

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    Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,265 ✭✭✭✭

    Walter, you can argue that gold will always be worth something. That may be correct.

    If the economy ever crashes, a wheelbarrow of gold might buy you a can of beans. Lima beans.

    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
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    BrookwoodBrookwood Member, Moderator Posts: 13,509 ******

    The undertaker can hardly wait for this guy to show up.

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    waltermoewaltermoe Member Posts: 2,048 ✭✭✭✭

    Rocky, Ok you got me on that, and not to mention in would be quite heavy.
    I’m not advocating go out and buy gold. You will not make your self rich over night. I look at it as a hedge that you keep over time. I will say that I trust it more than Bit Coin or other types of cyber currency’s. Case in point: Sam Bankman Fried. Just don’t understand how you can buy shares in a currency that isn’t there. That would be like buying gold on paper. Old adage when it comes to gold. If you can’t hold it, you don’t own it.

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    Lucky4597 Lucky4597 Member Posts: 365 ✭✭✭

    Walter - Bitcoin is the Betamax of this era, the great idea and superior platform nobody wants, or can effectively explain. IMO - it's commercially dead.

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    Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,265 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 11

    You might as well stock up on Monopoly money as any kind of crypto cash. It's imaginary money.

    Many say that the stock market (used generically) is about the same. I reply that if the US dollar is ever worthless, I'm no worse off than anybody else.

    I started buying mutual funds at $100 a month when the Dow was 600. You read that right: 600. I've changed funds a time or two as their guidelines changed. Lost a third of my investment twice in market crashes. Stuck with it, regardless. Today, my net worth begins with "multi…" Low multi, but multi nonetheless. It'll go to my grandkids because there's no way I can possibly spend it.

    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
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    Lucky4597 Lucky4597 Member Posts: 365 ✭✭✭

    "Always invest in the underperforming asset..." So counterintuitive to put more money in something that lost value - but 8 times outta 10, you make it back ++.

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    4205raymond4205raymond Member Posts: 3,300 ✭✭✭✭

    Nope! wanted to do a personal reply Rocky, so our HOST can see it.——————-Ray

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    4205raymond4205raymond Member Posts: 3,300 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12

    Waltermoe, you lost me. How can you pay your taxes with Gold if possession of Gold becomes illegal? 🙂 I wonder if Cosco reports the Gold they sell to the US Government? ———Ray

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    Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,265 ✭✭✭✭

    There is nothing illegal about owning gold. Now, anyway. It was once, at may be so again, by decree of goobermint. But it's fine now (pun intended.)

    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
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    Lucky4597 Lucky4597 Member Posts: 365 ✭✭✭

    Let's delve into the psychology of these commodities for a moment. My guess is its as fascinating to you guys as it is to me. There is a documentary, (see reviews link), "Nothing Lasts Forever" re the diamond market. The terrification of the cartel and brokers going on over synthetics that are so good the experts can't tell them from organics. Gold and other mineral rarities - at some point humans decided the value of these things and nothing says we couldn't undecide they have value. All the gold in the world is about enough to form the Washington Monument so sure, that helps. Who's to say in 3 decades it won't be something else? Fossils, asteroid bits, spent brass from exotic rounds?

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    waltermoewaltermoe Member Posts: 2,048 ✭✭✭✭

    I agree that investment in stock or mutual funds is for the long haul, and you must have patents, and fight the urge to sell at times.
    I have embraced the idea, that 10% of one’s net worth being held in gold is not that risky, and can be looked at as insurance against inflation you might say.

    4205raymond, I guess you have lost me. It is not illegal to own gold. As far as paying taxes, it could be converted into the currency being used at the time and that used to pay taxes. If gold is ever totally outlawed, we all will be in trouble, as I imagine we all will have to turn in are wedding rings, necklaces and anything else we might own that is made from gold. But I don’t ever see total gold confiscation happening. If it would happen we will no longer be a free society but as serfs to the controlling government.

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    Lucky4597 Lucky4597 Member Posts: 365 ✭✭✭
    edited April 11

    https://www.bullionbypost.com/index/gold/is-it-illegal-to-own-gold/

    Man - it's a way outside shot that gold ownership would be banned again. Financial markets are too transparent one thing. For another, blackmarkets just lead to untaxed trade - I don't think any government is that short sighted.

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    NotDraconNotDracon Member Posts: 66 ✭✭

    I used to be much more varied in how many games and platforms I played, but even though I only commit to one or two specific games on PC now I still put in enough hours to consider myself "avid".

    That Nintendo stock investment is a genuine idea by the way. My own Switch console might be collecting dust, but I know enough about its launch, aftereffects, influence and how many people want a sequel that upgrades on the original experience enough to know that it's a stock that's gonna explode upwards in value once the Switch 2 is announced.

    Back on topic regarding gold: there's only one "gold" thing I own, and it's this:

    It's fake in two senses: it's fake gold plating and it's an airsoft gun (you can barely see the orange tip in this pic) but man does it look good and feel good to use and carry. Yes, I carry it for my games. No, I haven't hit anyone with it… yet.

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    4205raymond4205raymond Member Posts: 3,300 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12

    Waltermoe, did an edit on earlier post. I should have said "if it becomes illegal." Did you read my story about my great grandmother? I assure you they did in fact confiscate her Gold and gave her paper money.

    On April 5th, 1933 by executive order 6102 FDR made Gold ownership (coins/bars) illegal. They could fine you 2X the amount that you did not turn in for paper. I believe some very rare collector coins were exempt. I think in 1974 President Ford recinded (sp) FDR's order.

    My point is on this whole thread top to bottom, whatever your opinions, if they did it once they can do it again, especially with a Rogue Government. I am certainly no expert on Gold but I think that is the important thing to always keep in your mind. ——————Ray

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    ltcdotyltcdoty Member Posts: 4,174 ✭✭✭
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    4205raymond4205raymond Member Posts: 3,300 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12

    Gold is really not my forte so i find all your post very interesting.

    Many years ago while i was still working at West Point I had the good fortune of knowing a man that was in charge of Planned Giving at West Point. My employer the AOG at West Point and AAA (Army Athletic Association) raised the money for all the extra (cant spell that word) activities at West Point that the taxpayers did not have to pay for.

    My friend was a retired 06 and was in charge of a Sniper Co. in Vietnam. He was in the Pentathlon in the Olympics and as I recall he came in Fourth. He was the Master of the Sword at West Point ( the fellow in charge of phys ed). I always brought him a back strap and the heart from the deer that I shot in the Adirondacks. He had a special recipe for the heart. He took a liking to me, I suppose because we had similar interest. Hunting, competitive rifle shooting etc. I was surprised because he was a West Point ring knocker and I was just a lowly Grunt.

    One day he stopped in my office and told me he had something very important to talk to me about and to come to his office at lunch time. He told me that I was young and needed to have a lot of patience and to listen carefully because only I could be in charge of my finances and future. He got me interested in Vanguard No load Mutual Funds and told me which to pick. Yes, there were ups and downs but I hung in there and invested as heavy as i possibly could. I even took the money from my terminated pension plan and dumped it into Vanguard and my employer matched my IRA contribution.

    Because of this one man I saw the hand writing on the wall and slammed the door shut after all those years of being patient. I bailed, took my profits and closed all my accounts before the 08 debacle with the likes of Barney Franks, Fannie Mae and the whole mess.

    My sweetheart Diane of 59 years worked one extra year so I would have five unbroken years under her health ins. when she retired. I cancelled my plan when she picked me up. My sweetheart took a reduced annuity so that I would get a survivor annuity if she passed first. If i died first she would be 100% beneficiary and she would get it all as POD.

    Because of one man and my sweetheart Diane and a lot of patience I do not have to spend the rest of my life in poverty. ———————Ray

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