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Do I need a land survey?
Warbirds
Member Posts: 16,919 ✭✭✭✭
Looks like I’m buying a place on 7 acres. It is a small neighborhood- and each home is on at least 5 acres. The survey recorded with the county was done 30 years ago and shows “my” land covering half of the shared road through the neighborhood.
A satellite view of the property shows my land lines actually miss the shared road. This was done with the hunting App OnX.
The deed to the property says I own half way into the road.
The price of the survey is about 2 grand but they are saying it could take a month to get it done.
Comments
For now I'd work off what the county has recorded as that is the 'official' record. Is there and easement for the road described in the county records?
There is some kind of rule that states. From the center of the road to 33 feet is public to allow for utilities, generally from the center of the road to 16.5 foot is the one side of the road, total 33 feet. On private land I’m not sure. They did survey the property next to are place 2 years ago. I was talking to the surveyor asking how accurate the GPS was when it came to surveying and he said, half inch on a bad day and a quarter inch on a good day. I was shocked on how accurate it was.
around here that is up to the bank making the loan and they almost always want a survey, they will want to guarantee their loan, unless you are paying cash. let the current owner pay as part of the sale…..
I watched a person "survey" my property. I had to ask if he had ever done this work before and what were his credentials as he was horrendous. He got in his truck and left.
The county records are "official". Hunting map apps are "guessing".
Get the survey. Most roads are to the centerline, and easements for the other stuff.
Margaret Thatcher
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain
Meet with the neighbor & see if they marked his corners. Then measure from there to find your other corners.
I just went through a property dispute where the same surveyor gave a neighbor & me the same 2+- ac. It was under a lake, but included his lake front. I gave it to him and the title co paid me. But only because I had a survey. Since there is question, I would get the survey and make sure you have a deeded access (inc. a utility ROW.)
Title search might be in order. Never know who holds a lien on the property. Get a copy of deeds for adjoining property, if corners are marked well and deed calls out any ROW,s or easements, survey might not be needed.
2 cents, you are the one that needs to sleep good over the transaction.
I would ask my self what result would be worth $ 2,000.00 to me?
For now the county records are the official records, and will remain that way unless challenged by your using your survey (additional money) or someone else (their money).
If you see a potential $ 2,000.00+ value, get the survey. If not, what would be the motivation?
Brad Steele
Have you even tried to find the markers in the corners? My place has rods in the ground. As suggested talk to the neighbors see what they say and if survey is needed, seller should pay for it. Title company is usually the deciding entity on whether current county records are enough. Good luck on how it goes.
Once again, the voice of reason.
I would get title insurance added to the loan for peace of mind. On the survey if good neighbors probably never have a problem. Then again it could not turn out well. My wife has property that has and older survey and the people that bought property joining drilled a well on her property looks like and built a building on her property. There is supposed to be another survey done soon and I don't know what will happen as the old survey no doubt they are on her property with a building and water well.
After seeing this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTunUmuH-D8 get it marked.
Lot of info here but wanted to make sure it is clear. County records may not be as clear as one might think. For example in our rural area it is not unusual to see a deed that lists the property “from the corner of someone’s hay field to a tree on another corner of the parcel”.
Title companies do not require a survey. They require what is called a “plot plan”. That is simply a surveyor taking the deed and reviewing the boundaries to insure none of the buildings encroach on anthers land.
Now a survey is done with instruments to indicate what are called “metes and bounds” on a plan. The MB are instrument readings that show magnetic direction and longitude and latitude. Now if a survey is done and a plan is prepared by a licensed land surveyor, the plan can be recorded with the Registry of Deeds. In our state the plan will take precedence over the description in the deed.
If you can get an instrument survey done and a recordable plan for $2,000 it would be money well spent. I spent $1,100 for just one boundary where I wanted to put some trees.
I'm in 'farm country' and I've never seen an official 'marker' for property other than roads/railroads. Fence lines and corner posts are the normal marking points and those are often not perfectly placed.
Roads are commonly taken equally from the properties on either side and should be noted on the property description. Some will tell you they 'OWN' the land to the middle of a public road but this is only true if the road is officially closed and returned to the original land from which it was taken.
I'm fairly certain of these comments since I 'OWN' a mile of closed road by virtue of owning the land on both sides at the time of the official road closing and 1/2 portions of 3 more roads that I owned land on one side of the road at the time of closing.
Property lines meeting in the center of the road is common in many states. You might want to look at the cost/benefit ratio before having a survey done. The survey cost will probably be small compared to the cost of attempting to get the property line officially changed.
The people who bought the property next to us started clearing and getting ready to build a house even after I informed them that part of the house and some of the trees they cut down were on my property! I had an attorney send them a letter to tell them they needed to have the property lines surveyed (which they had not done), so that a lawsuit wouldn't be in the offing. Turned out that 1/3 of their house would be on my land! I could have sued them for 10 big hardwood trees, and in hindsight, should have.
Round here some deeds read. Starting at old chestnut stump, thence running SSE, x number of feet,to crack in bolder, thence running west, x number of feet again, to center of branch and on and on. Some land marks are long gone.
Get a survey, kinda like good fences make good neighbors.
A cautionary tail….
A gentleman I know purchased a 27 acre plot of land when he moved to this area to retire. There were fences all around the property and based on what he was told those were the borders. The neighbor to the East of him was a difficult old curmudgeon who would only stop by to complain about some perceived issue on mowing or how loud the grandchildren were when they visited…. But they seldom spoke and could not see each others houses as there were woods between them…
My friend build a nice house with room for his in laws… He took care of the land and made some improvements. A year or so later, he poured a 40 X 40 slab and put up a nice shed. The rear of it was located about 20 feet from the fence line. The old neighbor watched the construction and pretty much stayed to himself. Six months after the shed was complete, the gentleman received a letter from a local attorney who was representing the old curmudgeon. It seems the actual property line actually ran to about the middle of the new shed and they were demanding the shed be torn down.
When all was said and done, it cost my friend several thousand dollars to buy the property all the way to the fence and down the length of the property. After it was settled, the old man, sold his land and moved away…..
$2K may be a cheap insurance policy… I hope it all turns out well for you and yours..
It could be that there are multiple records with the county. There have been oversights on properties I have purchased. I had a settlement with the title company after one transaction because a recorded easement was not uncovered. If you suspect that might be the case for you, get the survey.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
If you feel the need to ask, you already know the answer. Don
"even after I informed them that part of the house and some of the trees they cut down were on my property!"
So, someone sold YOUR property and you allowed this to happen? When did you determine that another person's house was on your property and how long had it been there.
In Missouri, there's what is called 'adverse possession' which means using or implying possession w/o the proper owner's consent. After 7 years of such possession, the property is considered 'possessed' by the infringing user. (this is not legal terminology BTW). I 'acquired' 7 acres originally belonging to a neighboring farm. The current owners did not/have not challenged my 'possession' within the 7 year time frame. Our 'north farm' acquired and held possession of a small access point between two fields by simply fencing the area for 20 years +/-. When the current owner tried to take it back, it was too late.
" I 'acquired' 7 acres originally belonging to a neighboring farm. The current owners did not/have not challenged my 'possession' within the 7 year time frame. Our 'north farm' acquired and held possession of a small access point between two fields by simply fencing the area for 20 years +/-. When the current owner tried to take it back, it was too late."
And this is OK to do?
Yes it is called the law of adverse possession. If someone comes on to your land and you do object the pin after the prescribed period of time, many states it is 20 years, the adverse possessor can petition the court to put the title to the property in to their name.
The law is the law. Use it or don't. I'm not sure of the original intent, only the end result. YMMV
Allowing someone else's house to stand on your property w/o challenging possession may not be a good thing.
Sounds like legalized slow motion theft.
I assume this behavior bars someone from complaining about a squatter in their home.
Brad Steele
I agree, but I looked it up and it is a thing in most states including mine Texas, I guess I better fix the fence a neighbor cut to mow a small area of my property that I have been ignoring….
For the investment of the property, the additional 2k for a survey seems small. The survey will give piece of mind, and legal record of findings.
A legal record will exist if you do this. Along with the survey you will need a plan prepared and signed off by a registered surveyor and then the plan needs to be recorded at the County Registry or Town depending on your state.
Once that is done then future deeds should just refer to the plan and not what was stated in the deed originally.
I just cannot seem to trust surveyors.
No two ever come up with the same results especially when they know they will get paid every time they disagree with each other.
Surveyors,
Used car salesmen,
Politicians,
Dentists,
timber buyers,
Attorneys,
DemocRATS,
I havent had that problem.
The quote went from a ballpark of 2K to 6 grand.
I found a local title insurance company owned by an attorney. He said, he’ll look at everything & he will only offer title insurance if he can prove things are square.
So more to come.
6 grand to locate 4 corners? I was in the wrong business!
It’s 7 acres & 6 grand is with an “expedite” fee….
Or rather they probably think there’s a guy from Florida who will pay whatever number they think of.
Contact the surveyor who did the original and have it updated. They should have their own notes and pin locations to make it easier. If they are not available, find the one that bought they're business.