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Jane Fonda and war protests question

CJ7nvrstkCJ7nvrstk Member Posts: 678 ✭✭
edited March 2007 in US Military Veteran Forum
For all Vietnam vets-let me start this out by thanking you for your service.

I was just wondering how each of you felt during your time in Vietnam when the Jane Fonda/war protest thing was going on and how that made you feel. How did you feel about it then and what are your views on it today?

Thank you in advance for your responses.

For the troll out there, please stay on topic and limit responses to this topic only. Other questions will not be addressed.

Comments

  • Smoky14Smoky14 Member Posts: 531 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm not fonda Jane, then or now.
    I could go on but you get the picture.[xx(]
  • CJ7nvrstkCJ7nvrstk Member Posts: 678 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Smoky14
    I'm not fonda Jane, then or now.
    I could go on but you get the picture.[xx(]


    Thanks for the reply. Do you feel the same for the anti war protesters who preotested while you were there?
  • Ray BRay B Member Posts: 11,822
    edited November -1
    I don't have any specific problem with Hanoi Jane. I just include her with all the rest of the clowns, that then as now, create a scene to get on the news to show their opinion, which may or may not be correct. I have a much larger problem with the news media, in particular Walter Cronkite, as they reached conclusions about the war, based on false ideas as to how "the war" should progress. The problem with the reporters is somewhat tempered by reviewing the history that they covered prior to Vietnam. During WWII it was a full fight with the goal of unconditional surrender. Korea was a push them back into North Korea, then agree to stay on each's side of the border. This was followed by a few other conflicts where the US went in and the insurgents were not powerful enough to respond, so went away to fight another day, which gave the impression that the US came in with a big stick and showed them who was boss. So it isn't surprising that the media would expect the same sort of solution to the Vietnam situation. What happened was a furnace where the Communist Bloc and the Free World were increasing the amounts of money, material, and men to have their side prevail. The goal of the US was to defeat the Communist forces in South Vietnam, and disrupt production by bombing North Vietnam, to such an extent that the Communists could no longer afford to send troops to South Vietnam. The US goal was in essence to buy time for the Army and government of the Republic of Viet Nam to get it's act together, so as to defend itself against North Vietnam. The US upheld it's end of the deal. In 1968 and 1972-3 NVA divisions were reduced to ineffectiveness and forced to withdraw for reforming. Following the 1973 losses it took the NVA two years to recover sufficiently to launch an attack on the south.

    The problem was that it wasn't just North Vietnam, and for the US to correct the situation with military force, it would have involved taking on the entire Communist Bloc, which would commonly be referred to as WWIII. So as in the case of an older brother fighting off a class bully, the younger brother needs to get to the point of defending himself. In Vietnam, the South never got to the point of being able to to that, and so North Viet Nam prevailed in their goal, reunification of the country.

    The point that the media missed is that the US actually accomplished the goal of stopping the previously unstoppable flow of Communism around the world. Gaining South Vietnam was so costly for the Communist Bloc that, combined with attempts in Afghanistan and other spots, the Communist bloc depleted itself of the ability to persist. The estimates of Communist dead resulting from the Vietnam war are fairly valid at 4,000,000. And now, Vietnam is doing all they can to get into the world economy and become trading partners with the free world, leaving the agression part of Communism to their associates in China. So history is showing the results of the Vietnam War to be: a reunified Vietnam, that is progressing toward a market society, Indonesia and the entire southwest Pacific is non-Communist, which without the war would have most certainly fallen to Communist rule, and the primary Communist states, USSR and China have either disintegrated or have been seriously delayed in any agressive undertakings.

    I see the war as having great personal costs to those affected, but if history is to have any relevance, it shows that agressors must be dealt with, so a conflict with Communism was unavoidable. Had it not been in Vietnam, it would have been somewhere else. So given that a confrontation was needed, for the US to have met the enemy and prevailed (as shown above) with the cost of 60,000 lives, seems to me much more like victory than defeat.

    So back to your question, what do I think of Jane and the other protestors? I think they were inclined to have their emotions overwhelm their logic and they believed the biased views of news media that thought the outcome of the war should look like WWII. They were not unique in this shortcoming- it still happens today. Someone with no knowledge of a topic, but has celebrity status, will make his views known on a subject, and the news media, and evidently, a large portion of society, give those views value.

    So Hanoi Jane, and the war protestors in general, were doing what they thought was right, based on their feelings, as led by the news media. Not much different from today, and I have general disgust for them all.
  • jocko007jocko007 Member Posts: 81 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    SMOKEY 14 SAID IT ALL!!!
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,723 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jocko007
    SMOKEY 14 SAID IT ALL!!!


    Hated the gripe then as now, right along with the Anti-War Protesting b$%^$%^s. Never once met a man or woman in uniform that had a kind word to say for these #$%^&^R$%#. [^]
    What's next?
  • hedgehopper62hedgehopper62 Member Posts: 636 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    ray B
    I have re read your post at least a dozen times and concure with all you said.might add that kerry is yet the one i have most disgust for.[V]tks hedge[:D]
  • wolfhoundwolfhound Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was in the 5th Special Forces in Vietnam when Jane the pain was there, I was a Sniper working in and around the upper border, and was told that she was to be treated as a trader, and as a target of opportunity. I won't go into the gore of it all, but I spent 3 tours there, I would have taken the shot gladly, just for the men that gave there all. But we, the combat soldier, fought, just to give these ingreats the right to burn the flag in the street, or scream that we are baby killers, & war mongers, but these A_ _ Holes won't have to hear there friends next door screaming in terror, in the middle of the night while a foreign military unit takes them away, and knowing their next. All I'll say is Jane the pain should have stayed in Nam where she belonged.[xx(]
  • Ray BRay B Member Posts: 11,822
    edited November -1
    Wolfhound- I met a few traders there- I gave them MPC, they provided services; neither party was an ingrate.
  • hicap47hicap47 Member Posts: 516 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yeah, I heard things stayed pretty hot up along the upper border.....
  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kimi
    Hated the gripe then as now, right along with the Anti-War Protesting b$%^$%^s. Never once met a man or woman in uniform that had a kind word to say for these #$%^&^R$%#. [^]

    What would you know? And the question was addressed to Vietnam vets. Why are you even posting to the topic?
  • hicap47hicap47 Member Posts: 516 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Say Wolfhound, I gotta asked......Is that 'upper border' the same as the DMZ?.......Just curious.......
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,723 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
    quote:Originally posted by kimi
    Hated the gripe then as now, right along with the Anti-War Protesting b$%^$%^s. Never once met a man or woman in uniform that had a kind word to say for these #$%^&^R$%#. [^]

    What would you know? And the question was addressed to Vietnam vets. Why are you even posting to the topic?


    Hello DWS - We now know, that according to you, you graduated from school in California. You started Marine boot camp in June 1962. Your Drill Instructors were Zalanka, Faurot, Roberts and one whose name you can't remember, and that you were a member of platoon 340. Please continue and try to stay on track.

    The Life and Times of DancesWithSheep:

    4 - Where did you go after recruit training, and did you have the same rifle at your next command?

    5 - In the year 1963, you were a L/Cpl. with the 6th Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Division, out of Camp Lejeune, NC, who was on an operation in Sardinia. What are these type ops mostly known as in the Corps?

    6 - What year did you begin your academic prerparatory training for the Naval Academy? What year did you enter the Naval Academy, and how long were you a Plebe before you resigned your commission?

    7 - You dropped out of the academy because you did not want to be an Officer of Marines in a line unit in what month and year?

    8 - Yet, you had to fullfill your enlistment with the Marines as a grunt with 1/9 and 2/9. What month and year did you serve with these units, and what area was the home base of 2/9 in Vietnam while you were there?

    9 - Did you make the landing on Vietnam's shores on 8 March 1965? If not, when and how did you enter RVN?

    10 - When did you rotate stateside from the NAM?

    12 - Where were you stationed upon return to CONUS, and with what unit(s) between March of 1966, and the time your second NAM tour began?

    13 - What organization(s) did you serve with during your second NAM tour, and what were the inclusive dates?

    14 - What month and year did you return to CONUS after your second tour ended?

    15 - When and where were you discharged, and from what post?

    I agree with you that being a line officer in the grunts during the NAM was an extremely dangerous position. I would not have wanted such a position myself. I also can appreciate the courage it takes for one to resign in such a position as you were in. That would have been a difficult thing to do, indeed. I also appreciate folks who are sharp academically, such as youself, and who were selected by their leadership to get into an institution as difficult to enter as the Naval Academy. I consider myself a good Marine, nothing more, nothing less. I'm proud of it, though. Are you proud to have Marined too?

    What's next
    What's next?
  • Ray BRay B Member Posts: 11,822
    edited November -1
    Jeez Kimi- if you really are what you say, I'd strongly suggest that you contact the nearest Vet Center or VA facility regarding therapy for your ailments. Looks to me like you're wound a lot tighter than is healthy for you or those around you.
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,723 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Ray B
    Jeez Kimi- if you really are what you say, I'd strongly suggest that you contact the nearest Vet Center or VA facility regarding therapy for your ailments. Looks to me like you're wound a lot tighter than is healthy for you or those around you.


    What did I say Ray?
    What's next?
  • Ray BRay B Member Posts: 11,822
    edited November -1
    Kimi- 82nd Airborne thread 7/15 "After a career in the Marines"; 7/19 several entries "I consider myself a good Marine".

    As such you should be eligible for treatment for possible service connected problems.
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,723 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Ray B
    Kimi- 82nd Airborne thread 7/15 "After a career in the Marines"; 7/19 several entries "I consider myself a good Marine".

    As such you should be eligible for treatment for possible service connected problems.


    Ray, what if I would have said, "I consider myself an OUTSTANDING Marine." How would that come across to folks. ego-wise? Once when I referred to General Gray as a GOOD Marine, he understood it so well, he sent me an autograped picture of himself dressed in cammies along with some kind words. This, upon my transfer from the Fleet Marine Reserve at the thirty year mark. Most common folks don't go around bragging, as I am sure you would agree. Thank you for the responses, though, literally.
    What's next?
  • Ray BRay B Member Posts: 11,822
    edited November -1
    Kimi- I wasn't quoting the adjectives used, merely that you claimed to be a Marine, and as such I noted that you seemed to be getting more upset than was healthy. I don't know, maybe you are just amused and are laughing- it was just an observation on my part.
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,723 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi Ray. It is easy to get worked up on these forums...[:)]. Thanks for caring. You have a good weekend.

    James
    What's next?
  • wolfhoundwolfhound Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The upper border was around Dong HA & Khe Sanh.
  • wolfhoundwolfhound Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ray Who were you with and what years?
  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by wolfhound
    The upper border was around Dong HA & Khe Sanh.

    More like Camp Carroll and the Rockpile.
  • Ray BRay B Member Posts: 11,822
    edited November -1
    Wolfhound- When I was in the sixth grade I excelled in foreign policy and Ike requested that I fill him in on what was going on in the area previously known as French IndoChina. Despite my advice to the contrary, Ike followed in HST's footsteps and supported the French. When JFK got in, he further supported the military solution, and following his death, LBK and later RMN continued to seek a military solution. All this while I supplied up to date intelligence on the non-military solutions. I gained this information by several covert missions into both North & South Vietnam, as well as highly secret diplomatic missions to China and Russia. So my years of service went from the mid fifties to the middle seventies. I had various organizations that I was attached to, depending on what defficulties were expected.
  • hicap47hicap47 Member Posts: 516 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ray B -

    I guess now that you have told us, you will have to kill us.....
  • hedgehopper62hedgehopper62 Member Posts: 636 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had a secret mission in china I went across the border in the 50's and bought jade. in hong kong. LOL tks hedge
  • Ray BRay B Member Posts: 11,822
    edited November -1
    It's absolutely amazing how many people there are than have a superb grasp of the entirely obvious!
  • elvjeepelvjeep Member Posts: 988 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Forget Jane Fonda there are more important thing to think about.
    History will not treat her well
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