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Why do we have a USMC?
Repoman
Member Posts: 11 ✭✭
Why do we need a Marine Corp for anything other than naval ship protection and beach assaults? That is what they have done through all of history up until Vietnam. Since Vietnam they have still trained for beach landings but are just used as extra army units. This causes a lot of waste as far as duplication of effort is concerned. It is all political. The marine generals want a piece of the action - even it means turning themselves into an Army unit and no politician has the guts to say "If the marines are supposed to be 'marine' soldiers (meaning MARINE - ocean, the sea) then why do we always use them as regular army units?".
Marines should be used for amphibious assaults. That is what they were meant to be. If the army is so small that it is forced to use marines as regular army units then we need to make the army bigger. If the army is big enough but they decided to use marine units as army units just to get their share of glory than that is pretty miserable.
Having marines camp out in Kuwait and then drive their vehicles down a highway into Iraq is not what Marines are supposed to do. That's like putting army soldiers on aircraft carriers.
I totally revere the USMC - it is just that, other than their nostalgia - they are now just being used like the Army. And that is wasteful to the tune of tens of billions of dollars.
We should figure out how large of a force of MARINEs we need to conduct (AND support - including Recon units, CAP, arty, etc.) amphibious assaults. Anything larger than that should be reassigned to the US Army.
Inter-service rivalry is BS. Politics is BS. Marines are supposed to be Marines - not army soldiers. That is where their pride came from. When is the last time a marine went into combat as a Marine like Iwo Jima instead of like the US Army?
Marines should be used for amphibious assaults. That is what they were meant to be. If the army is so small that it is forced to use marines as regular army units then we need to make the army bigger. If the army is big enough but they decided to use marine units as army units just to get their share of glory than that is pretty miserable.
Having marines camp out in Kuwait and then drive their vehicles down a highway into Iraq is not what Marines are supposed to do. That's like putting army soldiers on aircraft carriers.
I totally revere the USMC - it is just that, other than their nostalgia - they are now just being used like the Army. And that is wasteful to the tune of tens of billions of dollars.
We should figure out how large of a force of MARINEs we need to conduct (AND support - including Recon units, CAP, arty, etc.) amphibious assaults. Anything larger than that should be reassigned to the US Army.
Inter-service rivalry is BS. Politics is BS. Marines are supposed to be Marines - not army soldiers. That is where their pride came from. When is the last time a marine went into combat as a Marine like Iwo Jima instead of like the US Army?
Comments
I worked for the army for a few years and the difference between the army and the Marines is like night and day. The Marines do more with less, and get the mission accomplished without excuses. The whole time I worked for the army thats all I seen was incompetence at all ranks and positions (obviously ANYONE can get promoted in the army), a total lack of self discipline, and excuses for why the mission could not be accomplished. With the Marines the mission WILL be accomplished, there are no excuses, and if you are incompetent the only thing you will ever be in charge of is digging holes somewhere until your EAS, you will not be allowed to endanger the lives of good Marines.
Ask any Marine about their history and traditions, they can tell you. Ask any soldier about their history and traditions, THEY HAVE NO CLUE. There is no tradition in the army, only senseless regulations.
The reason the Marines are used in traditional army roles is because they will do the job and the army will just make excuses and whine about why they can't do it. Marines should protect US embassies, Naval ships and installations, conduct amphibious operations. Which other than protecting the embassies they have largely gotten away from. The Marines should also conduct all ground warfare operations. The army does have some combat arms units which are worth keeping such as Rangers, and Special Forces, but the army as a whole should take on more of a support role instead of trying and failing at warfighting. This will reduce the redundancy between army and Marines and accomplish more on the battlefield with much less money spent.
My Sons have fought in the blood and the mud since Panama and Grenada, in every ground combat since (and including).
My Sailor Son has three F-18 combat cruises under his belt. He has also been in ground combat. He would be a very poor choice to ridicule, face-to-face.
I think there are few out there who would think that they have no "Heart".
wittynbear - your thoughts are so limited and parochial, that you must be the high school aged Son of a Marine. A keyboard warrior.
I revere all of our dedicated fighting Men, in all four Services, for putting their lives on the line, where it counts.
Doug
The army is not a fighting force they are a sick joke. They spend far more time learning about sexual harrassment, suicide prevention, sexual assault, equal opportunity, and at leat 50 different safety classes, than they do learning and maintaining the necessary skills to fight a war. All of that could be almost eliminated by taking care of their soldiers, but the army won't do that, instead they treat their people like crap, make them sit through these senseless classes, and then wonder why they have severe recruiting and retention problems. In my opinion the army is a massive waste of taxpayer money. They have no tradition, except retreat. All they have for guiding principles are endless mind numbing regulations, which often conflict with each other. The Marines make do and accomplish the mission, the army makes excuses for why they can't
Marines on the other hand have lots of tradition, and a long history of ferocity in battle which continues to this day.
10 November, 1775 the Marine Corps was created by Continenetal congress and Marines were recruited out of a bar called Tun Tavern. (Marines today and throughout their 233+ year history are known for their drunkeness.) When George Washington was short on supplies, the Marines raided the british island on New Providence Bahamas and aquired some supplies. (As Marines do to this day.) On the way back the british navy attacked and the british were repelled many sailors killed by Marine sharpshooters in the ships' rigging. (The start of marksmanship in the Marine Corps, it will come in useful again later.) The british broke action and went running for england to get more sailors.
In 1805 in response to piracy of American ships in the Mediteranean sea Lt Presley O'Bannon led 7 Marines on a march across 600 miles of desert and attacked the fortress of Derna in city of Tripoli which was used by the Barbary Pirates. For the first time the US flag was raised in victory over the old world.
In the War of 1812 at the battle of Bladensburg outside of Washington DC 114 Marines completely halted 3,000 British troops and held for 3 separate attacks. Eventually with reinforcements the british finally overran their positions. The British Commander reported that "They have given us our only real fight." When Washington DC was burned by the british the Marine Commandant's house was left untouched out of respect.
When Mexico attacked the US in 1846 The Marines distinguished themselves in the battle of Chapultepec, and took 90% casualties. (This is where the blood stripe on the dress blue trousers comes from.) The Marines were the first to reach Mexico City and raised the US flag over the Halls of Montezuma also known as the Mexican National Palace.
In the Spanish American War the Marines actions in cuba resulted in the advanced naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Halfway around the world in the Philippines after Admiral Dewey sent the spanish fleet to the bottom of Manila Bay the Marines captured the spanish held Fort Cavite, and established a base of operations for the Pacific Fleet.
WWI Marines landed in France, they had no machine guns and were given a french piece of crap machine gun which was better used as a stick. On 1 June, 1918 the US 2nd Division with a brigade of Marines attached moved in to stop the German advance in Belleau Wood. The Marines took Belleau Wood with such overwhelming force that the surviving Germans which were of an elite force themselves believed the Marines were shock troops, and called them Teufelshunde which means hell hound named after the dogs of bavarian folklore which dragged people to hell. The Marines have loosley translated it as Devil Dogs and have had the nickname ever since.
At the battle of Blanc Mont after several months of heavy fighting with no gain. General John A LeJeune was finally allowed to lead the 3rd and 4th Marine Brigades, who still had no machine guns, across no man's land. The 3rd and 4th Marine brigades responded to german artillery with Marine marksmen. On the morning of 5 October, 1918 the Marines charged out of the trenches and across over a mile of no mans land responding to german machine gun fire with well aimed shots. It was believed that the Marines had all been killed. When blood curdling screams were heard from the german trenches. The Marines who were almost out of ammo had crawled across no mans land and bayoneted the Germans in their own trenches.
In WWII The Marines fought for months on Guadalcanal in bitter jungle warfare agaist the japanese, while the US fleet with half their supplies still on board left the 7,000 Marines to defend Henderson field against 30,000 well supplied Japanese troops.
The island of Tarawa was strongly fortified, heavily supplied and manned, Japanese Island fortress with 1000 foot wide coral reefs. The Japanese commander boasted that "A million men assaulting for 100 years could not take Tarawa." The 2nd Marine Division took Tarawa in 76 hours. Only 17 japanese surrendered the rest were killed.
19 February, 1945 US Marines assaulted Iwo Jima a barren and rugged volcanic island with over 1500 caves and pillboxes which the Japanese had spent 20 years fortifying. There were 22,000 Japanese troops dug into the island. US Marines raised the US flag on Mt Suribachi. Joe Rosenthal snapped the picture of the flag raising, which would become one of the most famous pictures in US history, of which Navy Secretary James Forrestal said "That flag ensures the Marine Corps will exist for the next 500 years." The Marines fought on Iwo Jima for 26 days. Admiral Chester Nimitz said "Among the Americans who fought and died at Iwo Jima, uncommon valor was a common virtue."
In the final great land battle of WWII 3 divisions of Marines supported by the 10th army landed on the the Japanese held island super fortress of Okinawa, defended by 117,000 well entrenched Japanese. The Japanese were prepared to fight to the last man and suicide attacks were very common, including the kamakaze. After 3 months of fighting The Marines had captured Okinawa. Okinawa provided a base of operations to strike the Japanese homeland and eventually persuade the Japanese Emperor to unconditionally surrender on the terms of the potsdam declaration.
During the Korean War 8 Chinese divisions cut off and surrounded the 1st Marine Division 70 miles behind enemy lines at the Chosin resevoir (the frozen Chosin.) Chesty Puller stated "So, they got us surrounded, good, the meanies won't get away this time." The weather became brutally cold and was taking as many casualties as enemy fire, frostbite had become the norm. The Marines began fighting their way back to the sea. As the chinese closed in Chesty Puller stated "Those poor meanies they got us right where we want them, we can shoot in every direction now." The Marines had been written off, but the determination and leadership of all the Marines in the Chosin Resevoir has served as an exaple to Marines past present and future. As the 1st Marine Division fought their way out of the Chosin resevoir they took all of their own men and equipment, and even managed to drag their subordinate army units along. The army in their retreat had left men and equipment begind which the Marines picked up to leaave nothing for the chinese.
During the Vietnam War Marines continued to uphold the finest traditions of the Marine Corps, distinguish themselves, and make history. The North Vietnamese negotiated a cease fire for Tet (chinese new year) which we honored. The North Vietnamese and Viet cong broke the cease fire and attacked US bases all over Vietnam. The North Vietnamese were dealt crushing defeats. The North Vietnamese managed to infiltrate Hue and take control of the city. US Marines went in to retake the city. There was a large civilian population in Hue and it was the ancient imperial capital and cultural seat of Vietnam. Being such there were no saturation bombings, instead Marines fought house to house and building to building to retake the city.
In 1982 Marines landed in Beirut Lebanon as a peacekeeping force, Where they stayed until the Marine Barracks at the US embassy was bombed by a terrorist suicide bomber 203 Marines, 9 sailors, and 3 soldiers were killed on 23 October 1983.
During Desert Shield/Desert Storm The Iraqi fear of a Marine invasion caused them to fall into a trap and be all but destroyed by air power and a very short ground war.
In 1992 and 1993 in Somolia the warlords would commonly attack patrols escorting relief supplies, they quickly learned the green sleeves would run. (named so for how the army rolled their sleeves.) The warlords also learned that if they attacked the white sleeves they would fight and the warlords would be killed. (named so for how the Marines rolled their sleeves.)
Since 9/11 the finest history and traditions of the Marine Corps continue to be upheld today. Marines are serving in Afghanistan and Iraq and making history. They are fighting as only Marines do with a tenacity, and ferocity that instils fear in the hearts of their enemies. Marines are responsible for sending more terrorists to meet mohammed in hell than any force in history since the crusades.
Hopefully this serves to let you know the difference between the army and the Marines, and a soldier and a Marine.
Ask any Marine the history of the Marine Corps they can tell you. Ask any soldier the history of the army and you are lucky if you get Pauly Shore's chowhall history lesson from the movie In the army now. Ask any Marine anything about warfighting, his weapon or his equipment he can tell you. Ask any soldier and they will pick up a book and flip through it and read it to you because they don't have the slightest idea. Ask any Marine about sexual harrassment and they agree that it sounds like fun and want to know where to go to be sexually harrassed. Ask any soldier they can tell you everything you want to know about sexual harrassment prevention, suicide prevention, sexual assault, equal opportunity, and 50 different types of safety classes they have to attend every quarter. Marines make do with what they got and accomplish the mission. The Army has all the latest gadgets but instead of accomplishing the mission they make excuses for why they couldn't. The Officers and NCOs in the army accept this because they do the same.
If the army and the Navy ever look on Heaven's scenes,
They will find the streets are guarded by United States Marines.
Among my three Soldier Sons, there are three Bronze Stars with the "V" Device.
My Sons have fought in the blood and the mud since Panama and Grenada, in every ground combat since (and including).
My Sailor Son has three F-18 combat cruises under his belt. He has also been in ground combat. He would be a very poor choice to ridicule, face-to-face.
I think there are few out there who would think that they have no "Heart".
wittynbear - your thoughts are so limited and parochial, that you must be the high school aged Son of a Marine. A keyboard warrior.
I revere all of our dedicated fighting Men, in all four Services, for putting their lives on the line, where it counts.
Doug
Your comment in red is exactly why I never responded to his BS!
Sure all of us from the different branches give each other crap but when it comes down to getting the job done it takes all the branches to *-R-DONE.
And wittynbear, for your information: Durring Desert Storm the Marines were used as decoys while the ARMY (namely Armored Units spearheaded by the 2nd A.C.R. which is who I was with[;)]) came in on the left flank and kicked ARS!
I proudly served in real combat in the U.S. Army and am also a PROUD FATHER of a U.S. Marine who will be leaving for Afganistan in October.
Doug