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Weapon of choice

One shotOne shot Member Posts: 1,027
edited January 2013 in US Military Veteran Forum
We have heard of some problems with the 5.56 round. what do ya think.
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Comments

  • jimkanejimkane Member Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
  • One shotOne shot Member Posts: 1,027
    edited November -1
    I myself liked having the M-60 during the first Gulf war. It would chew through hard obsticles and gave me a sence of security. I can not remember one time where I had a problem with that gun, which surprised me. When we were out on the range it tended to jam from time to time. When I got to the desert it never failed me, not a single time.[?]
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    The M-16 has to tight of tolerances for out in that sandy part of the world. If you can't keep it clean on a regular basis (and in combat you can't). That is why I have allways fely the U.S. needed to develop something more like an AK for the military. It can get dirty and keep on going bang every time you pull the trigger.
    One shot has it right with the M-60. When I was there the 60 performed very well with very minimal jams. But the 60 doesn'y have the tight tolorances the 16 has either.
    When I was there I had more fire power on my truck than I could ever use. Between me and my co-driver we had M-16, M-60, M-203, two AK's, with the ammo for all of it, plus 2 cases of gernades. So we were ready for what ever was thrown at us.
  • PATBUZZARDPATBUZZARD Member Posts: 3,556
    edited November -1
    While comparitively weak the 5.56 round is adequately lethal when delivered in high enough quantities... think m249 [:D]
  • 7.62x397.62x39 Member Posts: 1,994 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    the new 6.5 cal. looks good...
  • jimkanejimkane Member Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Oh no, the idiot has infected this forum as well.
  • tpd4722tpd4722 Member Posts: 39 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I personally enjoyed the MK-19, however in Mogadishu it was pretty much overkill/useless. While there I preferred the M-60. But now for work I prefer the .40 caliber as my primary and secondary and off-duty weapon.
  • ObiWanObiWan Member Posts: 1,054 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    .50 cal.

    They used it to down Japanese Zero's and now use it to down Iwaqi's.

    If it stands, flies, or floats.....a .50 will take it.
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm not going to get into the cartridge argument but I found the M4 to be quite adequate. I wiped mine down daily and did a thorough cleaning once/week. I used nothing but Otis Dry-Lube or Strike-Hold cleaner/lube and never had a jam.
  • KBAR-04KBAR-04 Member Posts: 24 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by idsman75
    I'm not going to get into the cartridge argument but I found the M4 to be quite adequate. I wiped mine down daily and did a thorough cleaning once/week. I used nothing but Otis Dry-Lube or Strike-Hold cleaner/lube and never had a jam.


    Have to agree here. I had no problems in Afghanistan in 2002. Official Army studies did not find a problem with the 5.56 round per se, although the newer NATO rounds in use (62g) were faulted for not producing the results at close range previously experienced with the 55g bullets. The main advantage of the 7.62 is penetration and accuracy/lethality beyond 400 meters. As to the M4/M16 system, I think its been proven to work fairly well, anecedotal evidence to the contrary. The IDF(Israel Defense Force) prefer the M16 system and have all but dumped the Galil in favor of it now. Last time I was in Israel it was pretty dusty and hot...
  • M1A1M1A1 Member Posts: 36 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tpd4722
    I personally enjoyed the MK-19, however in Mogadishu it was pretty much overkill/useless. While there I preferred the M-60. But now for work I prefer the .40 caliber as my primary and secondary and off-duty weapon.




    Hello sir,

    You were in Mogadishu? If you don't mind me asking,what were you, ranger? Thanks

    M1A1
  • sclongsclong Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ObiWan
    .50 cal.

    They used it to down Japanese Zero's and now use it to down Iwaqi's.

    If it stands, flies, or floats.....a .50 will take it.


    AMEN ........... the 50 cal is a great weapon. It eats whatever it hits! On the downside, we had a light rain immediately followed by a sandstorm, and you would have thought they were filled with concrete. Didnt take too long to unscrew them though.
  • fitrpilotfitrpilot Member Posts: 14 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I know it's a little expensive but I've always liked the 20mm Gatling Gun or the Mk84 based JDAM. [:)]
  • lockandload92lockandload92 Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    i'm still in school but i like the A-10 Warthog with the 30 mm GAU-8 gun, theres nothing like being hit with a bullet filled with depleted uranium, [xx(]
  • FEENIXFEENIX Member Posts: 10,559 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by lockandload92
    i'm still in school but i like the A-10 Warthog with the 30 mm GAU-8 gun, theres nothing like being hit with a bullet filled with depleted uranium, [xx(]


    Excellent choice, you should see them with all weapons stations loaded.

    plane3.png

    Me, Desert Shield/Storm, Saudi Arabia.
  • kumatekumate Member Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The 5.56 is a viable cartridge the 16's had a few problems bo=ut ot as many as I have heard of lately btu the 7.62[T-65]NATO would dropem where ya seenem.I think the boats and planes did the best job,they also gave us a ride home.This last go round 2 of my men were carrying 20 ga shotguns and they worked well up close
  • l3tol3to Member Posts: 256 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 7.62x39
    the new 6.5 cal. looks good...


    the 6.5 grendel? I think you mean the 6.8SPC, I don't know if the grendel has officaly seen any action.

    I don't man to put words in your mouth so maybe you do mean the grendel.. <shrug>
  • walther86walther86 Member Posts: 263 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The 240B was definitely my favorite. Nearly the speed of a m249 and the power of a .308....Sweetness
  • jessedvwjessedvw Member Posts: 6 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by walther86
    The 240B was definitely my favorite. Nearly the speed of a m249 and the power of a .308....Sweetness


    im gonna agree with this one, i just finished basic at the beginning of this month but the 240B and the SAW were my favorites
  • Mk 19Mk 19 Member Posts: 8,170
    edited November -1
    quote:quote:
    Originally posted by walther86

    The 240B was definitely my favorite. Nearly the speed of a m249 and the power of a .308....Sweetness




    im gonna agree with this one, i just finished basic at the beginning of this month but the 240B and the SAW were my favorites

    I'll agree with that one, Although my all time favorite to shoot was the MK-19. But most of my time in service the only thing I had in my hands was a mop, broom or floor buffer.
  • walther86walther86 Member Posts: 263 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yep..Janitors first, soldiers second![8D]
  • Old GunnyOld Gunny Member Posts: 193 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lock and load troops. I'm a former USMC Armorer from the Vietnam era, loved the m-14 (still do today) and the M-60, based on the Kraut WW2 MG-43, but with a slower cyclical fire rate than one of "Hitler's Zippers". We wired the front of the gas cylinder with stainless wire on the early M-60's, and with either a frang belt or a 100 rd. assualt pack they were a fine crew served weapon- but the M-14 with the full auto selector was better, all of the shortcomings of the battle tested M-1 Garand were eliminated with the M-14- the only eight rd. capacity with no provision to recharge(as with stripper clips on the l903 Springfield, the famous M-1 thumb, and the dead giveaway "ping" as the empty clip flew out of the receiver. Just read in Gun Digest a gunsmith has a $45 modification for the Garand that eliminates the "thumb"- when you drop in a full clip the bolt stays reward until you "bump" it back, then, like the better design of the M-14 it moves forward, stripping a round into the chamber. Well, so much from an old Gyrene "dinger" I have a N/M l903 set up with a Unertl 10X and with a flash suppressor, which some might think is an illegal silencer/suppressor, but it ain't.
    In recent issue of Shotgun News I saw an article on how short our troops are in the "Sandbox TO" today, saddens me no end they are lacking for the basics- bore brushes, cleaning patches, CLP and Cleanzoil, etc. I sent a care package just before Xmas to this APO, and ask you guys to do the same- Thanks: Sgt. First Class Richard I. Lugo (USA) B 3-7 CAV APO AE 09378.
  • usmccjcusmccjc Member Posts: 20 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    7 Months in Fallujah in '06 and never had a jam on my 16, used Militec and brushed out the sand once or twice a day. Favorite weapon was my M4 Super 90, No jams, no recoil, could shoot one handed with a 3" 12 gauge round. Lots of fun, however not so practical most of the time.
  • okiedokieokiedokie Member Posts: 1 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good day All

    I am a retired navy reservis tha t was recalled to active with
    desert storm /shield have always loved the 556

    but a couple yrs a go i bought a armalite AR10 in cmo
    for deer hunting

    simply love the reliability and knockdown of the system

    and the precision that it is.

    if i were back doing the dirty i would have it at my side.

    have shot 4 deer so far and the furthest " trail" was ten feet.

    ABH-1 retired
  • ruger41ruger41 Member Posts: 14,646 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i have a question about the ammo you guys use these days. i know under the Geneva Convention you aren't supposed to use hollowpoint ammo--but are you allowed to use polymer tipped rounds?
  • Aaron.Combs1Aaron.Combs1 Member Posts: 217 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    im sorry i have been to the sandbox, and i got tired of using 2-3 rounds to take down "Haji" 5.56 is goog for hunting varmant, but people is a different story. Geneva conventions suck! learn from our past. the 7.62x51 and 30.06 round was PERFECT we should have never changed
  • machine gun moranmachine gun moran Member Posts: 5,198
    edited November -1
    I took basic with a Garand, and we asked the senior NCO's if the 'ping' of a Garand clip flying out really was a liability. They all agreed that it wasn't, and almost all of them were combat veterans. They said that one reason was because riflemen were employed in numbers, and it was fairly impossible for the enemy to tell who 'pinged' and who didn't. When the presence of Grease Guns, Carbines, and BAR's was added in, they said enemy soldiers knew a lot better than to jump up and charge because of the sound of a 'ping'. Made sense to me.
  • Spc FergusonSpc Ferguson Member Posts: 2,383 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Aaron.Combs1
    im sorry i have been to the sandbox, and i got tired of using 2-3 rounds to take down "Haji" 5.56 is goog for hunting varmant, but people is a different story. Geneva conventions suck! learn from our past. the 7.62x51 and 30.06 round was PERFECT we should have never changed

    haha with all the proportionality classes ive had to sit through i totally agree. Ill never forget i had an instructor at our mob site that actually asked me if i knew what the geneva convention was cause i had used my m2 with blank ammo during a battle drill and not told the 240b gunners to engage the threat cause there was an issue of "proportionality"
  • MN HunterMN Hunter Member Posts: 2,299 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Spc Ferguson
    quote:Originally posted by Aaron.Combs1
    im sorry i have been to the sandbox, and i got tired of using 2-3 rounds to take down "Haji" 5.56 is goog for hunting varmant, but people is a different story. Geneva conventions suck! learn from our past. the 7.62x51 and 30.06 round was PERFECT we should have never changed

    haha with all the proportionality classes ive had to sit through i totally agree. Ill never forget i had an instructor at our mob site that actually asked me if i knew what the geneva convention was cause i had used my m2 with blank ammo during a battle drill and not told the 240b gunners to engage the threat cause there was an issue of "proportionality"


    thats the Army for ya [;)]

    "We" took on the philosophy....accuracy by volume. seemed to work the 2x 6mos i did in fallujah/najaf
  • RogueStatesmanRogueStatesman Member Posts: 5,760
    edited November -1
    Quiet Frankly ... I prefer the NUCLEAR BOMB!! So much more effective and acts as a real deterant!!
  • MMOMEQ-55MMOMEQ-55 Member Posts: 13,134
    edited November -1
    In VN my 7.62 worked fine. One shot one kill. Do the Marines still teach marksmanship to the recruits or is it that if you put enough lead in the air your bound to hit something?

    Now the 7.62 was for far off but I carried my trusty 12 gauge for up close and personal. Ever see what 00 buckshot does to your body at close range? Ever see what a 5.56 does to a body at close range? The holes that the two leave are like comparing grapes to grapefruits.

    From personal experience, size does matter.

    (This is my rifle. There are many like but this one is mine.)
  • grumpygygrumpygy Member Posts: 53,466
    edited November -1
    Know that a well cared for M16/M-4 will do the job. maybe not as fast as it should but it will.

    But my Baby was the M-60, Got good with it and then later was able to teach others. Not sure of the Moel but the one from Mid 70's to 90's. The changed it in early 90's and it was never the same for me.

    Now the 5.56 that I would have refused to carry was the SAW.

    1st time I had the chance to fire one, one round and the Barrel went down range. It sheared off the barrel latch. The other times it Jamed more than it fired.

    But have heard they improved it so that it is now working.
  • gap1916gap1916 Member Posts: 4,977
    edited November -1
    I have no problems with the 5.56 round. There will always be something better and some thing worse. My personal rifle is the AR180s. My go to hand gun of is the 10mm. The rifle and hand gun I use are not the choise of our military but it works for me. My 2 cents. [8D]
  • DBMJR1DBMJR1 Member Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I noticed that there were a whole lot more dead men, with AK-47's, than with M-16's. My M-16A1 never failed me, but I only used it once. It turns out my intended victim was already dead.
    Post #1
  • shamtasticshamtastic Member Posts: 863 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    my m4 worked great. I wasn't to impressed with the bullets we put in them though.
  • Lucky_LeftyLucky_Lefty Member Posts: 7,971
    edited November -1
    my weapon would be my knife.
  • BigKev72BigKev72 Member Posts: 37 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have used both 7.62x51 Nato and 5.56 NATO (and 9mm)rounds in operations...I do not really have a preference to tell you the truth. How does the old saying go? "Size and speed are great, but accuracy is final" or something to that effect.
    Weapons on the other hand are a bit different in my opinion and I definitely have some favorites and some I intensely dislike...but that was not the topic was it.

    Now...If I had my ideal play toy for ops work, AI AW in 5.56, suppressed with a nice 10x hensoldt (spelling?)

    Cheers everyone!

    BTW sorry to sneak in and hijack your forums, not us mil but did get to have fun in the cold cold sand during Sheild/Storm.

    And just a quick edit, I did see something on television (future weapons i think) that had a company in the southern US owned by an ex-us army sf bloke who had developed a 6.5mm based of the 5.56 Nato case that was showing some promise, i think it was a fairly seriously improved BC.(Ballistic cooefficient)
  • osubullriderosubullrider Member Posts: 23 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The M4 (M16 is rarely used...for you old timers...unless you are/were a POG) is a good weapon considering the retards that we have to put up with. They (Colt) built a weapon that can handle not being cleaned in 2500 rounds and maintain the accuracy needed to turn an enemy's head into a canoe. As for the round... it sucks. The "knock down power" or foot pounds of energy at 100 meters will not stop a hell bent attacker if you put one center mass. The 6.8 SPC looks like it is going to be the next emerging round and I think it looks good on paper, but I have no personal experience with the round.
  • OMMEGAOMMEGA Member Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    This may be a bit off subject, but I got a call from a friend in Iraq that thanked me for sending candy and toys to give to the kids over there. He said that the kids started telling them where the bad guys were and also where the IED's were located too!
    Hearts and minds of the next generation were being won with candy and toys! What a weapon!
  • wittynbearwittynbear Member Posts: 4,518
    edited November -1
    When I was there kids were putting shaped charges on the doors of vehicles going through town and killing people, so they were telling people to keep kids at a distance. I know a lot of guys used rocks and I seen a few with slingshots in their back pockets, I assume to get better ballistics from said rock. I would personally use the M9 its got to be good for something, and it has about the same stopping power as a slingshot. We rarely rode in vehicles if we needed to move we used helicopters or worse 2 feet.
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