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Little boys crying

brechtbrecht Member Posts: 305 ✭✭✭
I know I'm a newbie. Butreading through some ofthese posts I feel like being back in kindergarden with a bunch of boys crying because their toys had been taken away. So people Stop whining and stert costuctive critisim. Complaining about "Socialists, Kalifornistan and Taxachusetts" does not bring us an inch further. Lets start proofing we are responsible citizens and not a bunch of gun nuts and then things will change>
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Comments

  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Uh huh.... so you are then aware of my other past times. You know, voting, editorials, sending letters to Congressmen (many of which I have the replies), and NRA, GOA, JPFO, and SAF allegiences, as well as Ohioan for Concealed Carry.

    I didn't think so..... put on your dunce cap.

    I've put my own Governor in a position of speechlessness. Not that long ago I wrote an editorial in the paper illustrating my thoughts concerning the CCW bills on the floor. I wasn't the only one. For some reason, he responded to everyone else's.... except mine. I put this in perspective for the people one more time, and still, no response.

    Death to Tyrants!!!

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
  • brechtbrecht Member Posts: 305 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    for some reason I expected you to reply to this

    in a world ful of compromise some don't
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Don't see any words of wisdom from you......Waiting......
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, I make the best of my resources, whereby are not humble, and by no means extreme. Somehow, I still manage to find time to have a good life, and then I see something as distressing as someone insulting my integrity on a public forum, and I was supposed to ignor it? Forget it.

    Just what we need, another one of these types. I, too, am waiting for some sort of wisdom I have apparently overlooked. The afterthought is not enough. Since you apparently have a certain angle here (lack of?) I won't bother making any suggestions. I would just be repeating myself if I did.

    Death to Tyrants!!!

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Gunphreak, Where did he go? See it is so dang disgusting....the few that actually frequent here...If it weren't for you,Delta and a couple others I'd just walk away....What was Brecht tryin to do?? These gys come in get everyone riled and split,why?don't make sense to me.....
  • brechtbrecht Member Posts: 305 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm sorry. Some of us have to work and to support this economy.
    Well boys since you want some word of wisdom here it is:
    Until recently anything looking like an assault rifle was banned from the German gun market. This is now changed. Thanks to a group called "Forum Waffenrecht", which is a support group that was able to convince the german government that the legal owners of guns are not a bunch of freaks. The jointly worked together with law enforcment (to get statistics) and the government in order to revise the laws goeverning gun possesion in germany. Part of their succsess was by finding compromises and not vetoing everything there is.
    I think that would work here too.

    in a world full of compromise some don't
  • brechtbrecht Member Posts: 305 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    one more thing. I don't want to make everyone split. I think some form of regulation is necessary. You can't let every freak run around with a gun and shoot around.
    I hope you agree on that with me.
    Limitation of the number of rounds in your magazine is the wrong kind of regulation since most firefights end usually after the 3rd round fired. That is a regulation which is totally useless.
    Id say make it harde to buy the gun. (bachground check, why not an obligatory course like for the concealed carrying license before you are able to buy the first gun) but whenever you past the requirements. less restrictions on what you can buy.

    in a world full of compromise some don't
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ok, I have an even better idea. Since you do have a point about not wanting just everyone running around with a gun, I have two concepts that perhaps you may be interested in thinking about. The first one is to get the feds out of our schools and the teachers can knock of the liberal gun kontrol to the children, and the second would be to eliminate the NICS system and install a new system that contains a list of SSN's that are barred from purchasing. Then a gun dealer can look up the number and if it doesn't show up, then the purchase is approved. And, there will be no governmental snooping or backdoor registration attempts.

    This is another reason why I am not in favor of governmental (at any level) licensing for hanguns, too. A list of gun owners are created, and a backdoor registration scheme can develop there. I may sound like a person that has stuff to hide, and that is false. I have rights that I want to see exercised, just due to the principle of the thing.

    Death to Tyrants!!!

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Brecht,and gunphreak.....I believe you both have valid points here,interesting a discussion is starting off of a thread that appeared to have died....Anyhow,brecht,you needen'ttry so hard,we are on the same side,or supposed to b.Also as a bit of advice you'll get lots furthur without the sarcasim,and I speak from experiance on this...We don't know you or you us,what makes you think I do not work and "support"the economy,c'mon its a turnoff and none of us needs to get turned off at this point do we? I hafta agree with gunphreak tho,I oppose the backdoor approach and the loss of privacy,I've NOTHING to hide...however what about our constitution?
  • desertratyvdesertratyv Member Posts: 14 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    "Compromise" is another word for giving up!!!!!!! and to that I say NEVER!! NO compromise, and yes DEATH even to anyone or any government that would cause us to even consider bending the back of our beloved constitution one more inch. I, like many of you fought for my country and I am proud of it and all its freedoms( including the stupid ones like making gun control laws) BUT, If we go back to the original intent of the constitution, there in black and white it spells it out WE THE PEOPLE, And, now that there is some semblance of sanity in Washington and we have some responsible people i.e J. Ashcroft in power, the REAL definition of the second amendment is FINALLY being felt by all the leftist Democrat pansies i.e Klinton x2, Shumer, and all the Kennedy's. I guess the truth hurts. to all of them,, I throw down the gauntlet and to all the liberal suck up left over hippy tree huggers, I say to hell with you and if you ever decide to burn something again like the flag or draft card, be sure first to liberally dowse yourselves with gasoline first!!!!!!! AMERICA FIRST!!!!!! NO COMPROMISE!!!!!!!!!!

    Robert J. Ehrenfried
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yeah... me too!!!!

    Death to Tyrants!!! Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
  • IAMAHUSKERIAMAHUSKER Member Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "Compromise"= Gray area. Gray areas suck!!!! Let me just say me too!!! I am with ya Desert!!!!
  • NOTPARSNOTPARS Member Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Brecht,

    Are you a "seminar poster?" This is one who claims to be for the Second Amendment and then urges other pro-self defense Second Amendment people to compromise and back away from the notion that the right to life is an absolute? Sure sounds like it from your posts. Second, I have been on this forum for some time. I have found the members to be the most educated, dedicated, and hardworking bunch I have ever encountered when it comes to the right to keep and bear arms. Whenever I need help with an issue, question, research, and advice, I come here. These folks know their stuff and they are on the front lines.
    As to not everyone should be running around with a gun...well one of the students in my government class said what you said word for word. He got the line from Comrade Michael Moore's fiction called Bowling For Columbine. He was unaware that state and federal regulations cover who can and cannot own a firearm already.

    Finally, one cannot compromise a God given Constitutional right. It either is a right or it is a privilege. And, in my experience, compromise on gun rights has been A ONE WAY STREET. Those who support the right to keep and bear arms compromise and give up some of their freedom/rights. The far left, who wants to disarm America, never gives up or loses anything in these so called compromises.

    You might want to dialogue with people on here a bit and see what their views are. I have learned a lot from them...

    As an aside, I was reading last night about the British who banned Scottish weapons, swords, daggers, etc., because they looked "militaristic." Heard that one before?
  • brechtbrecht Member Posts: 305 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "Finally, one cannot compromise a God given Constitutional right."
    I think you are a little out of line here. I have not yet found the right to keep and bear arms int the bible yet.

    in a world full of compromise some don't
  • dsmithdsmith Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    brecht: still can't find a verse in the Bible supporting arms ownership? Nitrouz has a good one for his signature:
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
    - Jesus Christ in Luke 22:36
  • brechtbrecht Member Posts: 305 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    what I'm trying to say is let God be out of this discussion

    in a world full of compromise some don't
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    brecht: we need all the help we can get from powerful sources and it appears to me God put himself into the situation by Jesus commanding his followers to sell all they have and buy a sword (handgun of it's day). Pluss the bible also has a passage which states something like "Only a strong man, well armed, can protect his home" So it is not like God or Jesus never mentioned weapons for good people.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
  • evermoreevermore Member Posts: 100 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Brecht, who's side are you on anyways? In case you didn't know, this forum in particular is for us gun loving guys to exchange ideas and to vent off some steam in regards to how screwed up things have gotten when it comes to gun ownership. You see, I believe in preserving the 2nd amendment right ( I think I speak for everyone in this forum, excluding you) and adamantly believe that this right as well as the others should never be encroached upon or revised. Why someone like you would come to this forum and voice his opinion in a way that is perceived as anti-gun is beyond me. Maybe you got lost? Hopefully you'll find your way out!!!!
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Without God, there is nothing. Our US Constitution was written with much respect to the Bible. God's laws trump all laws. God will always prevail, and I will always stand up for God, first, then country, because without God, there would be no "Our country."

    The act of killing, in itself, is NOT evil. God judges the heart. He knows whether or not you did so for your own self-gratification, or whatever other sinful means was the motivation, and he also knows whether or not you felt as though you had no other alternative. For this reason, if a man should die by my hands, it will be in self defense or preservation of my family, friends or country. For that, I will feel no sympathy, nor pleasure toward the man I should slay, because I would know God knew my heart.

    Don't believe me about killing in itself isn't evil? Then I invite anyone to read from the Bible the following:

    Phinehas slaying Zimri and Cozbi to stay the plague: Numbers 25:6-13

    Phinehas revisited: Psalm 106:29-31

    Ehud: Judges 3:1-30

    Gideon against Succoth and Penuel: Judges 6:1-10;8:1-21

    The retaking of the Holy land: Joshua (all of it)

    David and Goliath: I Samuel 17:1-53

    God's laws prescribe all sorts of crimes and punishments in the first 5 books of the Old Testament. Where it is generally forbidden (as I know) to raise his hand against man, sometimes it is commanded that man punish man for a grievous sin against God. Jesus Christ's first coming does not absolve this, evidenced in Matthew 5:17, reading: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill (the Law)." Again, is evidenced in Hebrews 13:8, reading: "Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, and to day, and forever."

    Will I "just leave God out of it"? Absolutely not. His absence is the primary reason for why this part of the board was made in the first place. These people, however, have a certain fate awaiting them, as promised in Leviticus 26:14-39. For that reason, I will not join them.

    Death to Tyrants!!! Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    dsmith,

    Don't forget my signature, too.

    Death to Tyrants!!! Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    gunphreak, you just never stop surprising me.....Thank you....
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    LTS, y a know I really thought that you and I at least understood each other....I must have been mistaken,you see I thought that you only were in here arguing because you disagreed...was I mistaken?Or are you just in here to show how bored you are,and how much better than we you r.? It seems you like to stir......
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    longhunter: just wait until liketoshoot gets into trouble accidently (believe me with 20,000 gun laws on the books it can happen) the first thing he will do is to squeal for help from his pro-gun friends. And when he does I for one will respond by chanting "Ronnie Perkins, Ronnie Perkins" to him.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Fox,couldn't agree more.....seems the masses just can't...aw never mind,you allready know anyhow.......L.H.
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I believe in being thorough, though. Justification for the assembly of the militia comes from none other than the first recorded militia in history, in Genesis 14, when Abram (later called Abraham) assembled the first militia to rescue his brother, Lot.

    Genesis 14

    14: And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he ARMED HIS TRAINED SERVANTS, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.

    15: And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them (killed them, for those with liberal tendencies), and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus.

    16: And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

    Thus I have listed the Biblical reasons and foundation for the 2nd Amendment within this post.

    The godless are weak, and the weak strive only to become weaker.

    Death to Tyrants!!! Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
  • dsmithdsmith Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good quote. Keep 'em coming. As someone else pointed out, the sword was the ultimate defensive weapon of Jesus' time. Now one of the best defensive weapons would be the MP5K or MP5K-PDW. Let's get them legalized too.


    quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
    I believe in being thorough, though. Justification for the assembly of the militia comes from none other than the first recorded militia in history, in Genesis 14, when Abram (later called Abraham) assembled the first militia to rescue his brother, Lot.

    Genesis 14

    14: And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he ARMED HIS TRAINED SERVANTS, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.

    15: And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them (killed them, for those with liberal tendencies), and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus.

    16: And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

    Thus I have listed the Biblical reasons and foundation for the 2nd Amendment within this post.

    The godless are weak, and the weak strive only to become weaker.

    Death to Tyrants!!! Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Where this isn't the final thing anyone could bring to the attention of the board, I'll put it here so that the rest of you can see it.

    Psalm 149

    6: Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand;

    7: To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;

    8: To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;

    9: To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the Lord.

    Yes, this appears in the Bible, too. And that being so, it sounds to me like the Bible is not a manual of pacifism, but many things, including a book of warfare. Just so that liberally inclined idiots reading this understand me, the Bible is NOT a book of warmongering.

    Death to Tyrants!!! Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by brecht
    "Finally, one cannot compromise a God given Constitutional right."
    I think you are a little out of line here. I have not yet found the right to keep and bear arms int the bible yet.

    in a world full of compromise some don't


    Then you have not read your bible in its entitedy...remember that you are supposed to obey the laws of the land..as long as they do not conflict with gods word.The constitution is the law of this country is it not?
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey longhunter, do you have any idea out there how many people think they know what the Bible is all about, and the minute someone calls to their attention they are wrong or mistaken by what they have read, or another verse describes further that what they read is wrong, then they just want to "leave God out of it!!"?

    Like this, for an example: Not long ago in my city, which happens to be a conservative city, anyhow, the local paper ran a four day front page series to call to the attention of the city homosexuals in the city.

    In one article was a lesbian named "Kim" who was an open lesbian who wanted to attend a church that didn't persecute her for her sinful life style. So, I'm asking mysef, "What's the point?" No man can serve two masters (Matthew 6:24, Luke 16:13). Then they say, "We have no right to "judge" them." I, of course disagree there, as well, because there are numerous Proverbs concerning keeping bad company (1:10-19, 4-14-22, for starters, as well as other passages throughout, and then there is the true definition of "judging" (let's face it, when we are judged here for our wrong-doings, the judge does not reprimand us, he fines us, imprisons us, and may even have us sentenced to death, and God will do likewise, minus the fines and imprisonment) and the Golden rule (Matthew 7:12, Luke 6:31) is one that implies to rebuke others for their wrong-doings, rather than let them suffer God's punishment for never knowing, and accepting rebuking, as well, so that you will not be guilty of a sin that could have been repented. Two way street. Homosexuality is listed as an abonmination in the Bible. So after telling them they are not being judged until they are being lynched, shot, maimed, or otherwise punished to quit whining about being "judged".


    Bottom line, just like those who sacrifice the unborn to avoid consequences of their lack of control of their bodies, homosexuals do the same thing; they attempt to make a society to which they can do whatever they want without consequences. But what both of those listed above can keep in mind is, HIV is a plague that is transmittable only through sinful lifestyles (I feel sorry for those who get it from transfusions), and that is one consequence they cannot escape once they get it. Time to get with the program...

    Death to Tyrants!!! Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    I agree,I find that they try to mold or minipu8late the bible to their way of thinking...by taking only 3 words and making something of it.In my opinion the bible needs to be taken in its entirety and it is what it is...and what it says.The constitution was written with the bible right there....I just can't understand how they can find homoisim or that sort allright if they have actually read it?/.....
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, if they can't stick to their guns, and turn tail, looking for new justification for what I'm sure they know is wrong, then, much like the gun kontrol sorts, they lose credibility. To me, they are all incredulous, and I probably wouldn't believe them, even if I knew they were telling the truth.

    Death to Tyrants!!! Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
  • brechtbrecht Member Posts: 305 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    All right I admit it I missed out on bible study
    I think my original point is still valid. There is a need for discussion. Fanatism doesn't bring us any further. It doesn't matter if it is for guns, god or Allah!
    Some of you guys have proven her to have quite a potential to be fanatics.
    What I'm trying toe say here it is not as "black and white" than some of you guys think it is.
    I like to shoot and I like to continue doing this, but I think some of the opinions stated in this forum are oil on the fire who want to blame gun owners for all the crime there is.
    We live in a democracy and the public opinion is what makes the laws. Currently we are a bunch of gun nuts that can't be reasoned with and looking at some of these posts I can see why the public thinks that.



    in a world full of compromise some don't
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Actually, very rarely does a "gun nut" such as one like those of us here ever get on the news for public opinion. The reason: we are armed with the truth and a resolve to make the truth stand out: the antithesis of all that they ever believed. We are as unyielding as those who are trying to thieve our rights and liberties away.

    When approached by those who would push their beliefs on why gun kontrol is a good thing, they always end up not getting the last word, which in turn, destroys their strategy of getting the last word. I am also one who directly gives solutions and suggestions, rather than point out all that is wrong and give no solutions. But, my assaults do not end there.... I call to people's attention that they've been lied to, and played as a fool. Can they back their position up with fact? Well, I can.

    There is a reason I am not a compromiser or moderate. Every time we yield to compromise, we lose ground. When they come back, they seek to gain more ground, and they'll never stop unless they are derailed. It only takes a handful of times of creating ultimate failure for the opponents of gun kontrol, before they begin to disband as a waste of resources, but the more ground they can gain, the more they are accomplishing their mission.

    Death to Tyrants!!! Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
  • brechtbrecht Member Posts: 305 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    gunphreak
    I read a lot of your comments, few were helpful in this topic and others like Ronnie perkins case. I am not asking for a compromise fut I ask for being constructive.
    I know the world is bad and against me but repeating it over and over again does not make it better.


    in a world full of compromise some don't
  • deltaheavydeltaheavy Member Posts: 1 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    First of all, we do not live in a democracy. This is a republic. The difference is very clear, but it seems our public schools have failed to teach even something so basic as what type of government under which we live. Second, we have compromised the second amendment until its meaning has nearly been lost. "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." That's from memory, so maybe someone here can correct me if I mis-spoke. "Arms" does not refer to a sporting shotgun for blasting the occasional duck. In the late 1700's it referred to the then-state-of-the-art blackpowder rifle that equipped all modern armies. The founding fathers were trying to ensure that the common man could be just as well armed as a government. Transferred to a modern context, a literal interpretation of the constitution should allow me to arm myself with an M-4 carbine with an M-203 slung under the barrel, if I felt so inclined to purchase that sort of weapon. So when some liberal draft-dodger passes a bill that bans weapons just because they LOOK scary, or have 11 round magazines instead of 10, it becomes clear just how far that right has been eroded. We cannot afford to compromise any further. My hat is off to the folks in this forum who continue to defend their rights and religious beliefs. And anyone who thinks that you can separate God from government is a fool.

    Gun control is hitting your target.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    brecht,While I can appreciate that perhaps your hearts in the right place how can you say that education is not helpful?That is what you r recieving here should you take the opportunity...an education.The constitution is crystal clear...their should be NO COMPRIMISE at all.That is what got us in the mess to start with.It has been heading to this since the civil war,The constitution was stepped around and on then and has been since.It keeps getting furthur and farther from its original intent.That is intentional....these are FACTS as evidenced in our own History.I believe in order to reverse or make changes to anything,first you must have at least a basic understanding of how you got to where you r at.And ONE MORE TIME<the bible was the building block for the founding fathers...all you havr to do is look to our history to prove it.Take one away,and the other fails.........
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    deltaheavy,

    We are living in a democracy, now. The Constitutional Republic we used to live in has been abolished. I know, that just doesn't seem right, but the War Between the States was where it all began. The people of the North wanted to make a law forbidding slavery, and the South wanted it kept in place. The true argument was not altruistic at all. With plantation owners having slaves they paid for one time, the plantation owners had a huge labor cost advantage over the North's economy, and the North wanted a level playing field. Rather than put money they mostly did not have into buying slaves of their own, they would rather have the South free all their slaves (and take the loss on what they paid) so that we would all be "equal". The South's argument was that the US Constitution neither covered, nor forbade the having of slaves, so therefore, the 10th Amendment stated that the Federal Government had no say in it. Well, when the feds decided to flex their muscle, the South seceded from the Union, because, first of all, they weren't complying, and second, the federal government overstepped their boundaries.

    And for all those who ever believed that slaves were freed based on an altuistic president, I bet none of you knew that "Honest Abe" began sending former slaves back to Africa up until the time he was assassinated. Amazing how facts have been distorted.

    The difference between a democracy and a republican form of government is this:

    A Constitutional republic operates on principles set forth in a written form that states how laws are made, how laws are interpreted, how laws are enforced, and creates a system of checks and balances. There are strict limitations on certain areas of law that cannot be ramified, taken away, or breeched in any way.

    vs.

    A democracy is basically no set form of government, and with extreme likeness to anarchy. Inalienable rights are mutable concepts, bearing no credit if a majority wants them removed. In this, there are no checks and balances, no defined method of creating, interpreting or enforcing laws, and when run by stupid people (like our country appears to be) can cause a great amount of trouble.

    Somewhere along the line, here, we lost a great deal of our constitutional republic. When clueless judges (appointed for life and unremoveable) can scratch their head, and basically say, "I don't know what the law is concerning this issue, but this is what I think it says..." and thus, a new law is made (that's supposed to be the job of Congress), or when our President can go to war against another country, and rather than go to Congress and have them vote on a declaration of war (Article I Section 8 Clause 11), he goes to the UN asking for support, and Congress does nothing about it (Bush is not the first president to do this. The practice was started by demokrats) or when Congress can make laws that attack our inalienable rights in the name of safety and security, even though they took oath to uphold the US Constitution....

    The only real solution here is to red line the laws that are unconstitutional, and to try those guilty of subverting the laws of treason for disregarding the constitutional oath and waging war against the citizens of the US. That in itself is only going to happen, post revolution.

    Death to Tyrants!!! Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
  • brechtbrecht Member Posts: 305 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I watched Bowling for Columbine today and I was quite surprised. The movie does not blame the guns so much for the violence as it does the media. I think the statements about actual crime rates and corresponding media coverage was quite interesting.
    For those of you who haven't seen that part: While the crime rate went down 20% the media coverage about gun related crime went up 600%. With this kind of media coverage it is easy to blame everything on guns. This media coverage is also water on the mills who want to change the laws.
    Another thing>
    I think our society has changed since the founding fathers. People back then were more in balance with themselves and nature. They were more aware about the consequences of their actions. Today this is not the case anymore.
    There must be something like a course that forces people at least to reflect what is means to own a gun and what new rules and regulation are applying now and what it means to to take a life and if it is worth to do that in order to defend your property.
    I started thinking about that during my concealed carrying class and I think everybody needs some form of education ion order to be able to buy a gun.


    in a world full of compromise some don't
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Then you believe in making even MORE laws on a right that is ours as the CONSTITUTION stated????? I agree information is important,education,yes,but MORE laws on top of the illegal ones allready in place is NOT the answer.....A turn BACK to what the founding fathers set out for this country is what is needed....It started with Lincoln,as I have said before check out the post in general.....it has been getting more and more,furthur and furthur from what it is/was supposed to be.If you want to help,fanatical or not you need to understand what this country is Supposed to be,what it is,How it got here and then a plan needs to evolve to get it headed where it should be.....L.H.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    brecht: yeah, I agree with longhunter. If the govt. will get rid of the countless, countless, illegal and unnecessary gun laws, then I would not mind a few reasonable and common sense laws such as a concealed carry permit holder taking a gun safety class. But until that happens any more gun laws piled on top of the 20,000 or so that already exist just irratites me.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
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