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Mild Scolding 4 Everybody

tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
Here is a mild scolding (not trying to insult or argue or offend) not just for many here but for myself also. The gun owners described/quoted in the link below are doing more for gun rights than 90% of the complainers here. That includes me. Although I have done a lot in my life, for the present, in order to hang onto my high paying job, I cannot take any political risks. Yeah, yeah, I know. Ol' tr fox is just making an excuse for himself. But when my wife, daughter and grandson depend on me hanging onto my job, I believe I will act in a way that puts them first.

And I believe that a public that has a strong desire to own, carry, buy and sell firearms, (exercising their US 2A rights AND GUN RIGHTS IN SOME STATE CONSTITUTIIONS) soon get around to realizing that our governments usually have a strong desire to not only restrict our gun rights but ALL OUR RIGHTS. When that happens we get closer to that desired situation whereas most Americans stand up and tell the government to mostly get the hell out of their life and get their government hands off our constitutional rights.

The story in the link below should be, could be, a uniting lesson for most of us. But it probably won't be. At least read the link before posting your insults.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_guns___coffee

Comments

  • BaseJumperBaseJumper Member Posts: 5,570
    edited November -1
    "People go to Starbucks for an escape, just so they can get peace," Fascitelli said. "But people walk in with open-carry guns and it destroys the tranquility."

    Guess that depends on who the customer is, and what weapon the guy is carrying. If it is something unique, I might just strike up a conversation.
  • COBmmcmssCOBmmcmss Member Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox
    Here is a mild scolding (not trying to insult or argue or offend) not just for many here but for myself also. The gun owners described/quoted in the link below are doing more for gun rights than 90% of the complainers here.


    Fox - Recommend you keep your scoldings to yourself or those whom you know. As for me, you have no idea what I do or how I do it. No argument, no offense. Just Common Sense. Your global generalizations serve to weaken any statement you make.


    COB
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    Didn't read your link, heck I can barely stomach reading anything you post. But I read enough of the OP to get what you are wantign to discuss.

    Here's my reply from them yesterday morning...

    From: Customer Relations <info@starbucks.com>
    Subject: Response from Starbucks Coffee Company - Case # 8133756
    To: "Jeff " <jpwolf737@yahoo.com>
    Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 3:09 PM


    Hello,





    Thanks for contacting Starbucks Coffee Company.



    For Starbucks, the safety of our customers and partners is a paramount concern. We will continue to adhere closely to local, state and federal laws and the counsel of law enforcement regarding this issue. We have existing security protocols in place to handle situations related to safety in our stores.



    We appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective.



    Warm Regards,



    Alyssa R.

    Customer Relations

    Starbucks Coffee Company

    800 23-LATTE (235-2883)

    Monday through Friday, 5AM to 6PM (PST)








    p.s. I would really like to know if this information was helpful; please click here if you'd be willing to share your thoughts in a brief survey.



    ----Original Message----
    From: Jeff
    Sent: Feb 27 2010 8:56AM
    To: Customer Relations
    Subject: other

    Message: Just wanted to say thanks concerning the recent attempt by a certain irrelevant lobby group to disarm your law-abiding customers. You did not bow to their pressure, which would only serve to leave your customers at the mercy of thugs who ignore all of the gun-control laws, anyway. Thank you, for TRULY caring about your customers safety, and at the same time, sending a message to criminals of "Don't waste your time in our stores, you might just get wasted. Find somewhere else to ply your trade." Thank you!
  • zinkzink Member Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    TR, NOT trying to offend, insult or argue, but when it come to a time to stand your ground against a tyrannical government, will you bow to it also for the sake of keeping your "high paying job". If you give in now, chances you will then.

    I am not being demeaning in any way, I am just curious. I gave up a well paying job (chief of police of a 5 man department) because of political beliefs. To be specific it was over concerns of confiscation during the Clinton AWB era. If they did outlaw them the mayor stated it would be up to us to go get them. When I made the statement it was against the Constitution, he said "if you don't like it you can quit", I tossed my badge on his desk as did all of the rest of my officers. And yes I had a family, a wife and 4 kids. Some things are more important to me than money, mainly GOD, country and my faith in The Constitution of the United States. The first person I have to live with is myself and if I betray my beliefs and faith, then that is not possible.

    Lance
  • wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,769 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by zink
    I gave up a well paying job (chief of police of a 5 man department) because of political beliefs. To be specific it was over concerns of confiscation during the Clinton AWB era. If they did outlaw them the mayor stated it would be up to us to go get them. When I made the statement it was against the Constitution, he said "if you don't like it you can quit", I tossed my badge on his desk ....


    Integrity in action.[;)]
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Zink ;
    I don't expect fox to respond to your post. The actions you took are so completely foreign to him and his kind, they would no doubt call you a fool for "throwing away such an wonderful job".

    The idea that a man would remain true to himself, his ideals, and his country would never enter their heads.

    I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your actions as an American against the forces of evil and darkness that is engulfing our great nation.
    That ONE ACTION by a Patriot is far more then the trfoxes and the NRA have done in their entire history of compromise and treachery against the Constitution.
  • Jim RauJim Rau Member Posts: 3,550
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by zink
    TR, NOT trying to offend, insult or argue, but when it come to a time to stand your ground against a tyrannical government, will you bow to it also for the sake of keeping your "high paying job". If you give in now, chances you will then.

    I am not being demeaning in any way, I am just curious. I gave up a well paying job (chief of police of a 5 man department) because of political beliefs. To be specific it was over concerns of confiscation during the Clinton AWB era. If they did outlaw them the mayor stated it would be up to us to go get them. When I made the statement it was against the Constitution, he said "if you don't like it you can quit", I tossed my badge on his desk as did all of the rest of my officers. And yes I had a family, a wife and 4 kids. Some things are more important to me than money, mainly GOD, country and my faith in The Constitution of the United States. The first person I have to live with is myself and if I betray my beliefs and faith, then that is not possible.

    Lance


    Lance,
    I can relate. But I went it alone, except for the legal support, and it took several years but did finally retire, but it was close. My wife was worried but I had several job offers from the private sector because they supported my stance. I was on TV, radio, and testified in several hearing in the state legislature.
    This relates to a question I had reference the discussion Don and I were having on another thread about goals.
    What have 'you' done in the past and what are you currently involved in (actions, not just talk) to achieve the 'goals' of a 'pure' implementation of the RTKABA?????
    Good post Fox!!!
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    Zink ;
    I don't expect fox to respond to your post. The actions you took are so completely foreign to him and his kind, they would no doubt call you a fool for "throwing away such an wonderful job".

    The idea that a man would remain true to himself, his ideals, and his country would never enter their heads.

    I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your actions as an American against the forces of evil and darkness that is engulfing our great nation.
    That ONE ACTION by a Patriot is far more then the trfoxes and the NRA have done in their entire history of compromise and treachery against the Constitution.


    Fact!!! And, it's putting it mildly, IMO.
  • GF132GF132 Member Posts: 52 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Zink by his actions said far more than the tens of thousands of "stand up for gun rights" words I see posted on this web site. There is a man who acts according to his beliefs; I think all of us could learn from that. In the end it simply comes down to individuals standing up for their rights, one by one.
  • Jim RauJim Rau Member Posts: 3,550
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by GF132
    Zink by his actions said far more than the tens of thousands of "stand up for gun rights" words I see posted on this web site. There is a man who acts according to his beliefs; I think all of us could learn from that. In the end it simply comes down to individuals standing up for their rights, one by one.

    AMEN,
    And as I have been saying all along, ALL THIS 'INFIGHTING' ONLY HURTS US ALL. There is nothing wrong with discussing and even arguing about our beliefs, but this BS of attack those who do not see things your way only show how defective your arguments are and how immature the attackers are.[V]
  • zinkzink Member Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree, Jim. Just for info of all, I laid my badge down first and the rest did the next day when they found out what was happening. I continue to fight with all means I have to this day, not just on here.

    Lance
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,460 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well done, Lance.

    Not many would take a principled stance as you did.

    Regarding the OP.

    While I applaud Starbucks, I would only hope that OpenCarry.org and others no longer make Starbucks a focus for their demonstrations. The last thing we need is to create an environment where they are penalized for their positive stance.

    In the end, I guess if I ever get to the point where I want to spend $ 3.00 for a cup of coffee, I now know where to spend it.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • freedomfighterfreedomfighter Member Posts: 84 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by zink
    TR, NOT trying to offend, insult or argue, but when it come to a time to stand your ground against a tyrannical government, will you bow to it also for the sake of keeping your "high paying job". If you give in now, chances you will then.

    I am not being demeaning in any way, I am just curious. I gave up a well paying job (chief of police of a 5 man department) because of political beliefs. To be specific it was over concerns of confiscation during the Clinton AWB era. If they did outlaw them the mayor stated it would be up to us to go get them. When I made the statement it was against the Constitution, he said "if you don't like it you can quit", I tossed my badge on his desk as did all of the rest of my officers. And yes I had a family, a wife and 4 kids. Some things are more important to me than money, mainly GOD, country and my faith in The Constitution of the United States. The first person I have to live with is myself and if I betray my beliefs and faith, then that is not possible.

    Lance


    You are awesome! Exactly the position history dictates as proper for law enforcement in this country. More power to you, and, it will arrive with a quality stance such as you describe.

    My position on gun rights is that they should never be limited by the ability of a human being control themselves. I've discovered that psychology is deeply negligent in developing treatment for people who might tend to conduct extreme violence.

    http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=434277

    Those people are bing used by the public and government who are trying to diminish gun rights and it is total BS in light of the truth about what makes people tick. Perhaps as a law enforcement officer who has been forced into the role of "psychologist with a gun" when local municipalities fail to engage the most effective mental health care, you can relate to this position.
  • fideaufideau Member Posts: 11,891 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Can't believe you guys.
    The threat by a small town mayor, about something that never happened, and he quits?
    How about staying, and if the threat became real, protecting the citizens and refusing to comply.
    If he was fired for that, the citizens would not have it, if they were worth fighting for. A mayor like that wouldn't last in my town.
    Sounds like he took the easy out. Maybe there were other reasons.
    Doesn't sound like what some of you say you will do.
    Did you really think about it?
    Or is it just blind hate for tr and the NRA.
    I am not being demeaning in any way, just curious.
  • zinkzink Member Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by fideau
    Can't believe you guys.
    The threat by a small town mayor, about something that never happened, and he quits?
    How about staying, and if the threat became real, protecting the citizens and refusing to comply.
    If he was fired for that, the citizens would not have it, if they were worth fighting for. A mayor like that wouldn't last in my town.
    Sounds like he took the easy out. Maybe there were other reasons.
    Doesn't sound like what some of you say you will do.
    Did you really think about it?
    Or is it just blind hate for tr and the NRA.
    I am not being demeaning in any way, just curious.


    What I did was the right thing to do in my opinion. There were no other reasons, I have the intestinal fortitude to stand for my beliefs. It was not the easy way out. I did organize with the citizens of the town and was ousted within a year. We, as civilians, were not going to lose our rights.

    fideau, sometimes more can be done out of public service. I was not a "yes, sir" man who hid behind my badge.

    Lance
  • fideaufideau Member Posts: 11,891 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    zink:
    I sincerely commend your actions and salute you for your efforts.
    You have the courage of your convictions.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by zink
    TR, NOT trying to offend, insult or argue, but when it come to a time to stand your ground against a tyrannical government, will you bow to it also for the sake of keeping your "high paying job". If you give in now, chances you will then.

    I am not being demeaning in any way, I am just curious. I gave up a well paying job (chief of police of a 5 man department) because of political beliefs. To be specific it was over concerns of confiscation during the Clinton AWB era. If they did outlaw them the mayor stated it would be up to us to go get them. When I made the statement it was against the Constitution, he said "if you don't like it you can quit", I tossed my badge on his desk as did all of the rest of my officers. And yes I had a family, a wife and 4 kids. Some things are more important to me than money, mainly GOD, country and my faith in The Constitution of the United States. The first person I have to live with is myself and if I betray my beliefs and faith, then that is not possible.

    Lance


    Lance, Many people here believe that when it comes time to "stand our ground against a tyrannical government" they already know how, when and where that stand will take place. Of course such a belief is foolish. Just as with if anyone of us here has to use lethal force to defend our innocent selves, most likely after it is all over, we will be totally shocked in that we never, ever suspect it would go down like it went down.

    So, when the "time" comes, I will do the best that is reasonable possible. That includes standing my ground against that tyrannical government as well as defending me and mine from criminal attack by me having to use lethal force.

    In the meantime, I do what I reasonable can to AVOID both of those above cases from ever happening. Unlike many here who brag, pose, threaten and just act like keyboard commandos waiting and hoping for the day when they can grab their guns, run out into the street and engage the henchmen of HIghball's "beast" and "take this country back." For some reason my position attracts anger and hate from those keyboard commandos. IN spite of the fact that if the time actually does come when I need to grab my gun and run out in the street that is probably what I will do. I am too honest to say it any other way so as to avoid scorn from the keyboard commandos.

    OBTW, me "hanging onto my job" does not harm anyone's gun rights.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Fox, what gathers scorn for you is your support for GUN CONTROL and the NRA..(one and the same, bty)....and your propensity to stretch the truth till it breaks.
    That and your continued insane gabbling about us wanting 5-year olds to possess machine guns at the school.

    Kindly stick to the facts.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    Fox, what gathers scorn for you is your support for GUN CONTROL and the NRA..(one and the same, bty)....and your propensity to stretch the truth till it breaks.
    That and your continued insane gabbling about us wanting 5-year olds to possess machine guns at the school.

    Kindly stick to the facts.


    I do stick to the facts. You canary * demand absolutely no gun control laws what-so-ever. That means if a 5 year old wanted to sneak his dad's machine gun out of the house and take it to school no one could do one damn thing about it. In a post by JPWolf, in answer to a direct question by Jim Rau, JPWolf said as much. Jim Rau asked JPWolf if it was OK with JPWolf if a 5 year old took a loaded gun to school. JPWolf answered with "It depends on the 5 year old." Hows that for crazy thinking? Thinking that you yourself have to support since you claim that because of the 2A, absolutely no gun laws are constitutional.

    In addition, you forget to mention how you and the other * believe the constitution prevents any laws that would prohibit firearms from being sold from vending machines.

    I support the NRA because I see it doing more good than most other gun rights organizations. I believe in only peaceful, lawful Citizens having uninfringed gun rights, which means there should be a law describing those violent criminals who cannot have uninfringed gun rights. Because of my belief you and I and the * are enemies.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Because of my belief you and I and the * are enemies.

    Becuase of your belief you and the Constitution are enemies.
  • gesshotsgesshots Member Posts: 15,679 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    Fox, what gathers scorn for you is your support for GUN CONTROL and the NRA..(one and the same, bty)....and your propensity to stretch the truth till it breaks.
    That and your continued insane gabbling about us wanting 5-year olds to possess machine guns at the school.

    Kindly stick to the facts.

    There are plenty of laws describing those violent criminals who cannot have uninfringed gun rights. Trouble is those folks don't
    care about laws.
    It's being willing. I found out early that most men, regardless of cause or need, aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger. I won't. ~ J.B. Books
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    quote:There are plenty of laws describing those violent criminals who cannot have uninfringed gun rights. Trouble is those folks don't
    care about laws.

    We really do not need 'plenty of laws describing violent criminals,etc.'

    What we NEED is keeping vicious animals in PRISON...or EXECUTED..rather then 'laws' governing then after they are released from prison.

    What we SURE don't need is laws restricting decent citizens access to weapons..simply because government feels threatened in their pursuit of tyranny.
  • cccoopercccooper Member Posts: 4,044 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    When the time DOES come, how many of us WILL stand up? I'm more of the mind to fade into the shadows and fight like an Apache or Marine/Army sniper. No direct confrontation at all. Like the post stated, wife and kids need protecting. I can't see myself meeting the threat head-on. Would have to be hit and run.
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by BaseJumper
    "People go to Starbucks for an escape, just so they can get peace," Fascitelli said. "But people walk in with open-carry guns and it destroys the tranquility."


    Sounds like this Fascitelli fella is mentally unstable, or is calling starbucks' customers mentally unstable, or both.
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