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Sheriffs subvert law in Missouri?

NOTPARSNOTPARS Member Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited October 2003 in Gun Rights and Constitutional Law
I am a member of the Western Missouri Shooters Alliance. One of our members took the license to carry course at the Cross Fire in Independence Missouri (Jackson County). He lives in next door Cass county (Raymore...I used to live there). Anyway, the Cass County Sheriff is going to deny his permit application because the course was not taken at one of their approved courses. The applicant looked at the list. They were all police departments and police academies WHICH DO NOT ALLOW CIVILIANS TO SHOOT, TRAIN, OR TAKE COURSES!!! There were no private courses on the list as far as he could tell. And, they would not accept the course at next door Jackson County facilities! We are looking into this.
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    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Sounds like the sheriff is revealing the fact that he feels he need not obey the law but the common citizen should. And how little regard he has for the rights of the common citizen. Sic Kevin onto him.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
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    gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    How convenient. If it were me, I would be showing up with my attorney next time, and if the same thing happened, I would sue his *.... and get my permit.

    Death to Tyrants!!! Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
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    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    gunphreak: I usually respect and agree with you but your advice about showing up with your attorney is not realistic. I am guessing you, me and most of us here are average middle class people (I could be wrong, you could be a millionaire) and we just plain can't afford to launch legal fights on our own. And people like employers who mistreat us and these sheriffs in question know this. The only hope is in a group action and combined resources. In fact don't get me wrong, but in one way I am HAPPy to see these sheriffs fighting the concealed carry LAW as it will reveal to those citizens who doubted that the LAW ENFORCERS can and wil violent the LAW when they don't agree with it. And this will hopefully FINALLY unite many, many more people and gun owners whereas before way too many of them just sat on the sidelines.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
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    gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Actually, that is where you would be wrong, fox. I am not a millionaire, but at the same time, this wouldn't be a class action lawsuit, either. Those can get rather expensive if you lose. Besides, show up with an attorney, cops start to back down, and will generally start to bend, because they know you are aware of your rights, and are present with one that also is more than aware. cops (well, these types, anyway) don't like it when those they are "protecting" and "serving" want to start taking care of themselves, and are aware of their rights.

    Death to Tyrants!!! Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
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    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    I hope you are right gunphreak becasue if you are it gives hope for the little guy like me. But I am afraid you have never actually tried you theory. The cops all know that if they arrest you (just for an example) even if they know you will go to court and be found not guilty, that the cost of the attorney will punish the average person about as much as spending a week in jail. If an average person shows up with his attorney the cops know that average person is shelling out about $150.00 per hour and they also know he can't afford to do it as long as the cops can resist and delay. To sum up, if the cops are determined to deny the concealed carry law right only a rich man can legally make them back down. Or a group of averge men.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
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    gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You're right, fox. That's why you file a countersuit.

    Death to Tyrants!!! Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
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    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    gunphreak: speaking to you as a constition and gun rights brother, how many people do you personally know who have the money and can afford to take time off from work to get arrested, either spend time in jail or pay a large bond and then not only file very expensive lawsuits but expensive counter-suits? If you know more than one person who can afford to do all this then you run with a richer crowd than I ever have. I'm not trying to prove you wrong, just trying to get you to adjust your thinking to keep you out of trouble.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
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    gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Coming from a man who used the power of the threat of a countersuit, not once, not twice, but three times to fend off the rabid dogs and bloodsuckers of our legal system and the scoundrels who would incorporate these malevolent tools to extract wealth at another man's expense, it more than likely will never see the court room. Why? Because when they walk into the court room, they will either win, or not win money. Add to that the third option that they will lose money, and many people at that point are suddenly unwilling to put up their dukes and risk the case, because they knew in advance they would probably lose.

    Death to Tyrants!!! Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
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    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    gunphreak: now that part about the threat of a countersuit sounds interesting. Care to give me more details? However, before you do I am willing to bet money that your opponent was private enterprise and running on either their own money or the money of people to whom they had to be accountable. In contrast the govertment runs on an unlimited (so they think) flow of taxpayer money and they are not very accountable to the taxpayer who would be funding any legal or law-enforcement action against you. And even if they lose, they win because the fight will have taken a LOT out of you in many ways.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
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