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How precise do you load?
casper1947
Member Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
I loaded up some 357's with 2400, Mag primers and 158g SWC.
Some were 14g, 14.5g and 15g. I saw the best from the 14.5g.
I was just wondering how much +/- others accept?
Some were 14g, 14.5g and 15g. I saw the best from the 14.5g.
I was just wondering how much +/- others accept?
Comments
I load a lot of 9mm. If I had that type of range in my powder dump, I would have a big boom. I like to see +/- .1 gr. I believe this is doable with many different pistol powders. Long extruded rifle powders are lucky to meter at +/- .5gr.
Actually I meant to do 14,14.5 and 15.
But I am not impressed with the LEE powder measurement.
It works better with fine grain powder.
What brand of measurement are you using to get .1 variation?
I have seen a few gun's shoot fine in the morning, But come the afternoon heat with the same load, the actions become grenades.
editHello Nordic war god Sorry about being confusing
what I was trying to say was the powder measure that comes as part of a STAR Progressive Reloader. It has a powder measure designed to hold very very tight tolerance. a .2 of a grain in amount of powder in a 30-06 is a much smaller % then the same .2 grain in say a 9MM pistol round with Bulls-Eye powder. Hope this is easier to follow
Perry shooter: I try to read everyone of the posts you make as I find them. I have read this several times and I am afraid to say I don't understand what you just wrote! I think he was asking about the type of powder measure he uses. If I'm wrong please correct me.
I also use a Lee. Its the disc type and you have to take what you get. Sometimes the spread is .5 grains as you change discs!
quote:I was trying to say was the powder measure that comes as part of a STAR Progressive Reloader. It has a powder measure designed to hold very very tight tolerance. a .2 of a grain in amount of powder in a 30-06 is a much smaller % then the same .2 grain in say a 9MM pistol round with Bulls-Eye powder. Hope this is easier to follow
Ok, I get it. So .2gr accuracy no matter how much the charge is set for. Thats OK with rifle, but .2gr of error is too much for me especially if I only use 3.7gr in my 9 loads.
I have been happy with the Lee powder disc setup as far as pistol goes. I guess only because its simple and fits my needs. I don't shoot bullseye but rather "steel" type competitions. Usually one of the discs will throw a load close to what I need and if I don't use a large flake powder the consistency is great. With 231/HP38 I will use the .34 disc and it will throw 3.7gr every time. Never off by more than .05grain. Red Dot on the other hand,,,,,,well I learned my lesson there!
BADCHRIS wrote:
quote:What Lee unit are you using? I use 2400 in an Auto Disc and it leaks powder like a sieve. It gets bad enough the disc return spring won't be enough to return the disc under the powder hopper without pushing it. I'm not sure if I should blame the powder or maybe get a new Auto Disc (I bought this one used).
I was given a used one too. Guy had replaced the return spring with a weaker one to make disc changes easier and it was not going all the way back to refill the powder load! Squibs and partial loads .7 to 2gr loads. I had problems with another used one too! I bought a new one on sale at Midway for $25 a few years ago and have not looked back. 50k rounds later it still works great, never messed with it.
quote:Originally posted by shoff14
I load a lot of 9mm. If I had that type of range in my powder dump, I would have a big boom. I like to see +/- .1 gr. I believe this is doable with many different pistol powders. Long extruded rifle powders are lucky to meter at +/- .5gr.
Actually I meant to do 14,14.5 and 15.
But I am not impressed with the LEE powder measurement.
It works better with fine grain powder.
What brand of measurement are you using to get .1 variation?
I have a couple of Hornady measures for my progressive and an old Herter's for the bench. All of them will have very little variance with flake or ball powders. For flake, I give the Herter's a little tap-tap-tap between throws and it will measure +/- .1 all day long.
I had a couple of Lee Pro 1000 presses. I found the Lee Powder Disk measures to be quite consistent, specially with ball powders. You just might not have the ideal load amount due to the disk sizes.
If you are asking +- acceptability then each "type" load has different requirements. I have never measured more then +-.1 grain with current set up and several different powders. However, when loading "match" it must be "right on" for each round. I am quite sure most bench rest rifle people would not accept +-.1 grain.
If plinking then +-.1 grain is fine with me.
For the benchrest rifles powder is weighed and trickled as close as possible. Even then, in 100 yard benchrest, tiny velocity variations from tiny powder errors don't really matter much.
Long range benchrest calls for the most consistent powder charges possible.
I doubt that any handgun can show the variations on a target.
But I am not impressed with the LEE powder measurement.
What Lee unit are you using? I use 2400 in an Auto Disc and it leaks powder like a sieve. It gets bad enough the disc return spring won't be enough to return the disc under the powder hopper without pushing it. I'm not sure if I should blame the powder or maybe get a new Auto Disc (I bought this one used).
quote:Originally posted by casper1947
But I am not impressed with the LEE powder measurement.
What Lee unit are you using? I use 2400 in an Auto Disc and it leaks powder like a sieve. It gets bad enough the disc return spring won't be enough to return the disc under the powder hopper without pushing it. I'm not sure if I should blame the powder or maybe get a new Auto Disc (I bought this one used).
I have the LEE dippers, the disks (pro-1000) and the perfect powder.
In fairness I would like to update since my original question I went to the perfect powder and had consistent loads. Of 30 at 14.5g only 2 were 14.4g and 2 at 14.6g.
But the pro-1000 disks with coarse powder I have +/- .5 is the rule not the exception.
LEE parts are reasonable from their web site. I have had good results with them.
I try to stay as close to the charge as possible, +/- .2 max. in plinking loads for .357 mag/.44 mag/.45 Colt. I don't load max handgun loads with this spread, nor rifle loads, those are spot-on or done over.
[8D]
For ball or flake I use either the RCBS or Hornady...and the dillon on the Rl500. (note, for ball or flake...the Dillon is awsome....I do weigh a charge from it every so often, but once its set, its never off..like exact weight every time good..it just really, really, really sucks bad with large grain/ coarse powder....in fact, its not usable with those at all)
For ball powders I use a Hornady and usually get +-0.1g.
I pick loads that are about the middle of the loading range according to the book, whether rifle or pistol, and figure that if I need more power, I need to get a gun with a bigger hole. [:)]
very precise. Measure each and every drop twice. once with electric scale once with the teeter totter
Seriously??.........wow
Originally posted by CbtEngr01
very precise. Measure each and every drop twice. once with electric scale once with the teeter totter
Seriously??.........wow
I agree "wow". Must be a rifle benchrest shooter!
Would not be able to shoot many USPSA competitons doing it that way.
The one thing I had to learn, which was the hardest,was to STOP overthinking everything[;)] Your ability to shoot, transcends all other variables that you can place importance on.
yalls is funny[:D] even at 1000yds, a .1gr variance will NEVER show up on paper[8] ANY variance will be due to the shooter (missed a wind shift, pulled/pushed the trigger, can't read mirage, etc etc) even a .3gr variance won't matter.
The one thing I had to learn, which was the hardest,was to STOP overthinking everything[;)] Your ability to shoot, transcends all other variables that you can place importance on.
+100%
The other thing that makes reloading more precise is finding the correct accuracy nodes for your rifle. The correct load itself is every bit as important as weighing right down to the "nitty-gritty-less-than-a-tenth". What you find with that is you can get extreme accuracy with a load varying as much as .75gr either up or down. The speed of the powder and cartridge shape, along with the harmonics of the barrel account for as much accuracy as the differences in load weight.
I then run ladders to see exactly how well the loads are shooting at a reasonable range (400+ yds.) Where inconsistencies in the load will have trajectory differences enough to be picked up.
For pistol I work up loads to either low end or medium as I mostly use the pistol to function, not gain long distance accuracy. I have found that getting a load up to the top of what a pistol will handle not only affects the firearm, it affects the shooters accuracy as well. With a mid-range load in a pistol, one can learn to control it quite well and bring it down to very close accuracy. I generally use a very good metering powder and throw all charges. Not weighing as it won't matter. My powder charge is set and can't be changed accidentally. It has to be changed knowingly and manually. So, it will always throw the same charge of a good metering powder. Added: I do weigh to get that charge to start though.
If I'm loading most any pistol, I can't shoot them near as well as to make a difference, and I just take whatever my progressive press spits out- which for most powders is +/- .2 gr. I never load to max, if I did for some reason (hunting for instance) I'd check each, but that would be a specialty.
For rifle, for general fun ammo, I just dump. Depending on the powder and dispenser, that could be zero variation (very fine ball powders in the RCBS) to up to .2gr variation.
For matches, I use my PACT trickler and scale. Even with extruded I can get the charge right on that way. Necessary? Probably not, but one less thing to worry about.
When I develop a load for pistol or revolver, I try to eliminate as many variables as possible with the goal of smallest 5 shot group for a given series. All the charges are thrown from a Lyman 55 and trickled to +/- 0.05 grains on a beam scale. Overall length is mic'd as is crimp level. Bullets are sorted to +/- 0.1gr. variation.
For a given powder, I start mid to lower mid point charges and work up a series of 5 shot loads at 0.2gr apart working up to or near max listed charge. If the powder/bullet is not listed, I will use the data from a similar load, start low and watch for signs of high pressure on the way up. Then there are the variables of standard or magnum primer, COAL and crimp variations. Once the pet load is found, I will use the volumetric charge of the Lyman 55, if the powder is fine grained, and will maintain +/- 0.2gr. error, and check weigh every 10th or 15th charge.
I know there are other methods that would reduce the amount of components used to find the better load, but hell, I like to shoot, and then, the loading process is somewhat cathartic.
Now this is my routine. I'm content with it even though it takes extra time to find the sweet spot, sometimes though I get lucky.
Bullets (lead) I ordered 5 mos ago took 3 days to receive. My current order is 6 weeks and not yet here.
Components have cut my range trips from 1 a week to 1 a month.
Without high-jacking this thread, How much difference do you think in this day and age of running low on Primers(and all reloading stuff due to shortages) and stuff, do you think there is between Primer company's charges? (hypothetically) So I'm reloading with CCI LR mag. I run out and have to buy some. The only Stuff at the Store Is Remington LR Mag. is this a big enough change to screw my loads up? I've always figured the difference was within the Charge +/-.1 grn and wouldn't affect performance noticeably. Am I wrong? Now with this being said, I'm one of the Possible idiots that gone out and bought 10,000 of each so I will never run out. But just in case, or If i run across a good deal, should I mix?
all primers are different by manufacturer. Some throw a more intense flame, some burn longer, some are cooler, etc etc. I believe the term was "brisance" (?). I work a load ladder with the same primer, the same powder, the same brass, the same bullet, the same OAL, etc etc etc, only changing the charge weight. Once I find the accuracy nodes, I will re-run the tests using different primers, but leaving everything else THE SAME. Some primers like some powders and load densities better than others. The fun is in the experimenting to determine just what is the best combination for your gun.
quote:Originally posted by Montanapete1
Without high-jacking this thread, How much difference do you think in this day and age of running low on Primers(and all reloading stuff due to shortages) and stuff, do you think there is between Primer company's charges? (hypothetically) So I'm reloading with CCI LR mag. I run out and have to buy some. The only Stuff at the Store Is Remington LR Mag. is this a big enough change to screw my loads up? I've always figured the difference was within the Charge +/-.1 grn and wouldn't affect performance noticeably. Am I wrong? Now with this being said, I'm one of the Possible idiots that gone out and bought 10,000 of each so I will never run out. But just in case, or If i run across a good deal, should I mix?
all primers are different by manufacturer. Some throw a more intense flame, some burn longer, some are cooler, etc etc. I believe the term was "brisance" (?). I work a load ladder with the same primer, the same powder, the same brass, the same bullet, the same OAL, etc etc etc, only changing the charge weight. Once I find the accuracy nodes, I will re-run the tests using different primers, but leaving everything else THE SAME. Some primers like some powders and load densities better than others. The fun is in the experimenting to determine just what is the best combination for your gun.
Exactamundo! Thanks for saving me all that keyboarding, Justin [;)]
Of course, a lot of people here will try to tell me I don't need to be that "precise". One "high poster" here told me I should not worry unless I was off more than +/- .3 grains.
But it's MY ammo, so that's what I do. They can be as slack or as precise as they want with THEIR ammo. My tolerances are my own.
quote:Originally posted by Montanapete1
Without high-jacking this thread, How much difference do you think in this day and age of running low on Primers(and all reloading stuff due to shortages) and stuff, do you think there is between Primer company's charges? (hypothetically) So I'm reloading with CCI LR mag. I run out and have to buy some. The only Stuff at the Store Is Remington LR Mag. is this a big enough change to screw my loads up? I've always figured the difference was within the Charge +/-.1 grn and wouldn't affect performance noticeably. Am I wrong? Now with this being said, I'm one of the Possible idiots that gone out and bought 10,000 of each so I will never run out. But just in case, or If i run across a good deal, should I mix?
all primers are different by manufacturer. Some throw a more intense flame, some burn longer, some are cooler, etc etc. I believe the term was "brisance" (?). I work a load ladder with the same primer, the same powder, the same brass, the same bullet, the same OAL, etc etc etc, only changing the charge weight. Once I find the accuracy nodes, I will re-run the tests using different primers, but leaving everything else THE SAME. Some primers like some powders and load densities better than others. The fun is in the experimenting to determine just what is the best combination for your gun.
Very well said!
There is more info on this in the Remington primers sticky.
I load my ammo to the tenth of a grain. I dispense the powder from an RCBS powder measurer. I check about every 20th round for conformity before seating the bullets. I seat the bullets in one step and crimp them in a separate step.
I loaded up some 357's with 2400, Mag primers and 158g SWC.
Some were 14g, 14.5g and 15g. I saw the best from the 14.5g.
I was just wondering how much +/- others accept?
I use the Lee Adjustable Charge Bars instead of the disks on all of my Lee Auto Powder Measures for all minimum loads for plinking. It's so much easier to make minor adjustments to by turning the brass screw instead of taking it apart and changing out disks. I spot check the weights on min. loads occasionally to make sure I don't have any loads that might be dangerous but over the years I've never had a powder charge that was out enough to be considered dangerous.
On all max. loads I weigh each charge. Even with the max. loads I still use the Lee Auto Powder Measures but I reach into my 4 hole turret and pull out the casing and dump it into a scale pan and weigh it. I think it saves time over using the dippers. Anyway I've always been overly careful if there is such a thing when dealing with powder charges that could * and my gun up. In fact I double check just about everything to do with max. loads. Today I went a little further and ordered some pretty pricy electronic scales to recheck my other scales. I always use calibration weights every time I set up to start reloading to verify that my scales are weighing accurately.
I found these Amston 200 x 0.001 GRAM/3,086 GRAIN, 1 MG DIGITAL ANALYTICAL LABORATORY BALANCE SCALES on E-bay. I had ordered some other Amston Scales but they only read grains out to one decimal place and I was looking for something more precise that I could also use for jewelery weighing. So the company allowed me to exchange my other scales for these scales below. These scales allow me to run a fan or A/C in the same room while weighing since they have the glass enclosure to keep the air movement from screwing up the read out.