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Issue w/.45 acp brass.

Bubba Jr.Bubba Jr. Member Posts: 8,176 ✭✭✭✭
I've deprimed thousands of brass cases in .32 acp, 9mm, .40, .44 spl, .44 mag, .308, and now I'm having a problem with .45 acp that has never happened with any of the other size cases.

On about 10% of the used brass I just got from the GB auction I won, and also on some used brass I bought locally, I can't get the pin to hit the hole. I rotate the brass and sometimes it will punch out, sometimes I can rotate it 5-6 times and it still won't punch out the primer. I removed the depriming pin and checked it to make sure it was straight, and also to make sure it was centered in the die, and everything looks fine. BTW, I'm using a Lee Universal depriming die, and the proper case holder in a Lee Classic Turret press if that makes any difference.

This occurs mostly on Win, RP, Blazer, Top Brass, and Federal brass. The flash holes look like they are centered in the brass. When looking inside, you can see where the depriming pin has marked the brass all around the hole about the pins width from the edge.

Any ideas what is causing this or is it just an anomaly with .45 acp brass in general?

Comments

  • brier-49brier-49 Member Posts: 7,023 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Is it NT brass with the small primers?
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    I really suspect your decapping Die. I have loaded over 350,000 rounds with my star press with Carbide die set Broke one decapping pin . 380 auto case inside the 45 Case. [:I] either that or the turret press is not indexing correctly most decapping pin dies are combined with the sizing die this helps the decapping pin to always be centered in the case. Get a set of RCBS or Redding Carbide 45acp dies and never look back. "PRAISE THE HARD-BALL GUN"
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,664 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Are you SURE it is not Berdan primed? Blazer is aluminum and can't be reloaded, IIRC it is Berdan primed. There is a dimple in the center of Berdan cases that can fool you into thinking it is a flash hole when it is not.

    You may also have some very small .055 diameter flash holes, it will play havoc trying to stuff a .062 diameter pin through them.
  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 6,579 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Look at your shell holder. Perhaps crud is not letting case all the way in same with ram and shell holder.
  • Bubba Jr.Bubba Jr. Member Posts: 8,176 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi guys, I'll try to answer all your questions.

    Is it NT brass with the small primers?

    None of it is NT brass. The only small primer brass I have is Blazer. Most of the issues have been with large primer brass, but a few have been Blazer with the small primer holes.

    either that or the turret press is not indexing correctly most decapping pin dies are combined with the sizing die this helps the decapping pin to always be centered in the case

    I've removed the center shaft so that the dies don't index. The Universal die is about 1/2" wide at the throat and is not designed to touch the outer shell. I'm depriming the brass so I can run them through my new Thumler, and the brass is mostly pretty cruddy, so I don't want to scratch up my new sizing die, that's why I'm using the Universal die.

    Are you SURE it is not Berdan primed? Blazer is aluminum and can't be reloaded, IIRC it is Berdan primed.

    I'm positive it's not Berdan. I bought a box of brand new Blazer 230gr FMJ when I bought the XDs, and it is all brass, even says so on the box. The used Blazer cases are also all brass.

    Look at your shell holder. Perhaps crud is not letting case all the way in same with ram and shell holder.

    The shell holder is brand new, seats into the press like it should, and doesn't have any crud in it. 90% of the brass I've decapped went right through without any problem.

    You may also have some very small .055 diameter flash holes, it will play havoc trying to stuff a .062 diameter pin through them.

    That's what I thought at first too. When I rotate the brass to change the position of the brass, and try numerous times to pop the primer, it leaves marks in a concentric circle around the perimeter of the flash hole. Which would seem like the pin is bent or misaligned. But if that were the case, why would 90% of them go though without any issues.

    I really appreciate the ideas, hopefully I can figure out what is going on. Thanks again guys. [:)]
  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 6,579 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Try a different shell holder maybe the one you have is a little out of spec. Q tip clean the slot in the ram to be sure its seating all the way. Is you ram loose at the top of the stroke?
  • Bubba Jr.Bubba Jr. Member Posts: 8,176 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by charliemeyer007
    Try a different shell holder maybe the one you have is a little out of spec. Q tip clean the slot in the ram to be sure its seating all the way. Is you ram loose at the top of the stroke?


    I did that Charlie. The 40 and the 45 take the same shell holder, which should throw up some red flags. I swapped them out and nothing changed. The press is only about 6-7 months old, and is still very tight. I'll look under the shell holder and see if there is crud under there tomorrow.

    Thanks. [:)]
  • NordicwargodNordicwargod Member Posts: 102 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I also use a Lee Universal decapping die. I read that the pin will break before it will bend but it sounds like it could be bent.

    Or,,,,

    You wrote: "The 40 and the 45 take the same shell holder, which should throw up some red flags."

    Yes it should since they use different shell holders. If a 45 will fit into the 40 shell holder or vice-versa something is really wrong.

    Are you sure you are not decapping 45gap? I don't own one and have never reloaded it but I "heard" that they have the same case head size as the 40. 45gap is also small primer.
    I also use to load on a lee turret press, the turret moves. If you removed the rod or even if you didn't the turret could be moving. If I remember correctly the timing of the turret was adjusted by slightly turning the rod with a small 3/8ths wrench. And I did have to adjust the timing on mine. I deprime with single stage, hand prime the cases, and load on a Loadmaster so I am familiar with Lee products.
    Good luck!
  • Bubba Jr.Bubba Jr. Member Posts: 8,176 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The .40 and the .45acp both use Lee #2 shell holders. Lee shell holders are usually somewhat sloppy, and both shells will work in either shellholder. As I said before, I checked the pin for straightness, and it was.
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    Again Carbide sizing /decapping die IMHO is the only way to go .YOU can't scratch
    THE CARBIDE ring. I have resized over 350,000 rounds of 45 acp brass at least 40,000 before I got a case cleaner . Not a single scratch. again the carbide ring in the die will center the case so the decapping will center on the flash hole. UNIVERSAL[V]is just another name for Marginal on if it will work or not[:(][:(].
  • NordicwargodNordicwargod Member Posts: 102 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you are using a #2 shell holder for 40 then this is your problem. I use a Lee #19 and it has no "slop". 40s fit just right.

    Perry Shooter: Even if he uses a carbide sizing/decapping die with a #2 he may have other problems such as crunching the case because its not centered. I agree that if the case gets started it will size/deprime just fine.

    I have decapped 50,000+ cases with a Lee universal decapper and the only ones I have had problems with are the "odd" berdan .45 or 9mm case that shows up. I have yet to see a berdan 40 case and I always look in the rifle cases before I deprime them. No problems with this Lee product if you use the right shell holder, much quicker and less effert than sizing/decaping. A single stage is probably better for this than a Lee turret press though.

    Edit: Oops, we were talking about .45acp and not 40. Look what happens when you write before you think with no coffee. But what I said holds true for .40. Do what Perry Shooter wrote and use a sizing die while you are depriming and that should fix it. The #2 shell holder is the correct one for 45, 308, 30-06, and many others.
  • reloader44magreloader44mag Member Posts: 18,783 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Universal depriming die is the problem...my 2 cents...also use a #19 shell holder for the .40S&W as mentioned above
  • Bubba Jr.Bubba Jr. Member Posts: 8,176 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Bubba Jr.
    The .40 and the .45acp both use Lee #2 shell holders. Lee shell holders are usually somewhat sloppy, and both shells will work in either shellholder. As I said before, I checked the pin for straightness, and it was.



    I guess I had a senior moment. I thought I had grabbed my .40 shell holder, when in fact I pulled out the .308 holder. Sorry for the confusion.

    After checking things out more this morning, I concur with those of you that blamed the Universal decapping die. Between the play in the shell holder, and lack of lateral support in the die, it apparently was shifting just enough to cause my issues.

    But the strange thing is, I decapped a handful of 9mm and about 20 .44 Spl. cases with my Universal die this afternoon, and I didn't have a moments trouble.

    Thank you all for your help, I really appreciate it. [:D]
  • Emmett DunhamEmmett Dunham Member Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Are the primers crimped?
  • Bubba Jr.Bubba Jr. Member Posts: 8,176 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No, the issue was that the depriming pin was not hitting the center of the flash hole. When it did, they popped right out. I found one case that someone had put sealant around the primer, but it also popped right out without issue.
  • noyljnoylj Member Posts: 172 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Remove the depriming stem and roll it on the bench and see if the pin is straight.
    Keep the stem and die somewhat loose and size a case. You may need to jiggle the stem to get it aligned. With the decapper in the flash hole, tighten the sizing die and the decapper. This aligns everything.
    I have had ones where the flash hole is off center, but in that case, you keep hitting the center and the flash hole goes around.
    Shell holders need to be be snug fit.
    Shell holders:
    .32 ACP #7
    9x19 #19 (I disagree with this as this is the .40S&W shell holder and is sloppy for 9mm--I would get an RCBS shell holder made just for 9x19 head size)
    .40S&W #19
    .44Spl/Mag #11
    .308 #2
    .45Auto #2
  • Bubba Jr.Bubba Jr. Member Posts: 8,176 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by noylj
    Remove the depriming stem and roll it on the bench and see if the pin is straight.
    Keep the stem and die somewhat loose and size a case. You may need to jiggle the stem to get it aligned. With the decapper in the flash hole, tighten the sizing die and the decapper. This aligns everything.
    I have had ones where the flash hole is off center, but in that case, you keep hitting the center and the flash hole goes around.
    Shell holders need to be be snug fit.
    Shell holders:
    .32 ACP #7
    9x19 #19 (I disagree with this as this is the .40S&W shell holder and is sloppy for 9mm--I would get an RCBS shell holder made just for 9x19 head size)
    .40S&W #19
    .44Spl/Mag #11
    .308 #2
    .45Auto #2



    quote:I removed the depriming pin and checked it to make sure it was straight, and also to make sure it was centered in the die, and everything looks fine.

    I checked the depriming pin by holding it against a straightedge, and using my calipers to measure the distance as I rotated the pin against the straightedge.

    quote:BTW, I'm using a Lee Universal depriming die, and the proper case holder in a Lee Classic Turret press if that makes any difference.

    The Universal Depriming die does not make contact with the case. The only contact points are at the shell holder and where the pin meets the primer (or in my situation, the case).
  • HandLoadHandLoad Member Posts: 15,998
    edited November -1
    I believe I would take a good hard squint at the Central Bolt/Axle of Your Turret - sounds like it might have worked Loose, Worn, or Even less likely, Bent?
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A universal anything wont do as good as a tool made specifically for the job.
    Get a carbide 45ACP Lee resizing die with primer punch and these problems will go away.
    As it is, you have nothing to properly center the priming punch.
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