In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

45/70 BP substitute

BlckhrnBlckhrn Member Posts: 5,136
Any recommendations? Anybody here load BP cartridge?

Comments

  • Noah MercyNoah Mercy Member Posts: 43 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    For a BP sub, I'd recommend the new Pinnacle by Goex. It is very similar to American Pioneer Powder, which is one of the best subs...the only thing is that APP is on the wimpy side. Hodgdon 777 is also good, but is substantially warmer than real BP. The one product I recommend you avoid is Pyrodex. It is the worst corroder of guns I've ever seen. All of the substitues will give larger extreme spreads than Goex, Grafs, or Swiss black powder. But out of those subs I listed, Pinnacle seems to be the best compromise between cleanliness, uniformity, and similarity in velocity to the real deal.

    I try to encourage folks to use the real stuff. It is easy to clean and generally gives superior accuracy when compared to replacement powders. It is also less expensive. Graf and Sons sells their "house brand" that is very high quality powder and reasonably priced. They have a low minimum order and free shipping. Of course you have to pay the $20 HazMat fee on whatever quantity you order, but when you order four pounds or more, it comes in cheaper than any of the faux powders. The main difference you'll notice when shooting real BP is the need for non-petroleum lubes, both in the action and on the bullets.

    If you cast your own slugs, it's easy enough to pan-lube your bullets in either SPG, Lyman Black Powder Gold, or a home brewed lube. (I use a combination of beeswax and Crisco.) If you use 777, APP, or Pinnacle, you can use commercial "crayon"-lubed bullets. Several companies offer BP lubed bullets, so it's no problem to find pre-cast bullets if you don't cast.

    Hope some of this helps...don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions about BP cartridge loading. I do quite a bit of it and know a few of the top Quigley Match shooters, so I can ask some real experts if I don't know the answer.

    [:D]
  • BlckhrnBlckhrn Member Posts: 5,136
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Noah Mercy
    For a BP sub, I'd recommend the new Pinnacle by Goex. It is very similar to American Pioneer Powder, which is one of the best subs...the only thing is that APP is on the wimpy side. Hodgdon 777 is also good, but is substantially warmer than real BP. The one product I recommend you avoid is Pyrodex. It is the worst corroder of guns I've ever seen. All of the substitues will give larger extreme spreads than Goex, Grafs, or Swiss black powder. But out of those subs I listed, Pinnacle seems to be the best compromise between cleanliness, uniformity, and similarity in velocity to the real deal.

    I try to encourage folks to use the real stuff. It is easy to clean and generally gives superior accuracy when compared to replacement powders. It is also less expensive. Graf and Sons sells their "house brand" that is very high quality powder and reasonably priced. They have a low minimum order and free shipping. Of course you have to pay the $20 HazMat fee on whatever quantity you order, but when you order four pounds or more, it comes in cheaper than any of the faux powders. The main difference you'll notice when shooting real BP is the need for non-petroleum lubes, both in the action and on the bullets.

    If you cast your own slugs, it's easy enough to pan-lube your bullets in either SPG, Lyman Black Powder Gold, or a home brewed lube. (I use a combination of beeswax and Crisco.) If you use 777, APP, or Pinnacle, you can use commercial "crayon"-lubed bullets. Several companies offer BP lubed bullets, so it's no problem to find pre-cast bullets if you don't cast.

    Hope some of this helps...don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions about BP cartridge loading. I do quite a bit of it and know a few of the top Quigley Match shooters, so I can ask some real experts if I don't know the answer.

    [:D]




    I'm hip to the above. I'm not looking for real accuracy right now and have always advocated for real BP although I've never tried the Swiss. My FFL wants to shoot a couple rifles I have and for some reason doesn't like BP. I've always shot Goex.

    Do the substitutes need fillers like BP?
  • Noah MercyNoah Mercy Member Posts: 43 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Most of the manufacturers of the subs recommend against using fillers. I don't shoot reduced loads, so I don't have any personal experience, but several of the folks I correspond with have used them. Black Dawg filler is popular, and specifically made for BP (&subs) loads. The #1 caveat I have heard is not to compress the subs more than a couple percent. I squish my BP loads a BUNCH, but the subs seem to work best at 100-105% loading density. To keep the filler from migrating, a little compression is needed, but just don't go overboard.

    Hope that helps, pard.

    [:D]
  • BlckhrnBlckhrn Member Posts: 5,136
    edited November -1
    I'd always heard to use corn meal for a filler. I've been shooting ML's for 40 years but yet to reload for cartridge guns.

    One more question:

    Are there different consistencies of the subs that correspond with Fg, FFg, Cart, etc?
  • Noah MercyNoah Mercy Member Posts: 43 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I know folks who use corn meal, Cream of Wheat, plastic shotshell buffer (nasty plastic fouling can occur), or PuffLon, in addition to the Black Dawg filler which is finely ground corn cob. I've heard that the corn meal and Cream of Wheat are fine as long as there is enough compression to prevent it from migrating into the powder and as long as the ammo doesn't sit in a humid place for a long time. There is some controversy about whether they will absorb moisture and swell, causing powder contamination and possible pressure or squib problems. I don't believe that properly assembled ammo will allow moisture to enter the case (either around the primer or around the bullet) due mostly to the fact that I've immersion tested many of my handloads. But since I'm the first to admit he doesn't know everything, I suppose it could happen.

    As to granulations, Pyrodex RS is comparable to 2F, and Pyrodex P is equivalent to 3F. Hodgdon 777, APP, and Goex Pinnacle all use the "F" granulation designation, same as real BP. (And FWIW, Goex now has a "Cowboy" granulation of real BP that falls between 2F and 3F and has extra glazing. It was designed specifically for pistol calibers and shotshell loads in Cowboy Action Shooting and burns a little cleaner than the regular Goex.)

    [:D]
  • BlckhrnBlckhrn Member Posts: 5,136
    edited November -1
Sign In or Register to comment.