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What does "belted" mean?
cmumma
Member Posts: 25 ✭✭
What does "belted" mean when referring to cartridges (like the .300 Winchester Magnum and the 7mm Remington Magnum)? Thanks.
Comments
Rockton
SOLD MY COW SO I DON'T NEED YOUR BULL
A Grumpy Old Man
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?
"FEAR the Goverment, that fears your ARMS"
Note the case used to create the new short mags and ultra mags,.....the 404 jeffrey. Now, saw the belted case in half, then saw a 404 jeffrey in half, and you will quickly see the difference, as well as gain an understanding of why the belted mags, are belted. The 404 jeffrey case is much thicker, hence the strength and no need for a belt.If headspacing was the only issue, they would headspace off the shoulder, just like everything else. The brass and rifle steel strength back when the belts were invented, was wayyy under the strength, uniformity, and precision that we have today. By headspacing off of the belt, you allow a slight "surge" in the case, to meet the chamber shoulder, and the bullet release is at the same time, therefore, no excessive pressure spike and consequently, no blown up rifle. That's why when you ask any gunsmith with benchrest knowledge, how he would build you a belted magnum chamber, he would tell you that first and foremost, he would cut it to headspace from the shoulder, and not the belt. Factory chambers are a mute point as SAAMI specs call for oversized chambers and undersized factory ammunition,....just another accuracy detterent that you can thank all the lawyers for[:(!]
Keep in mind, once a fired case is neck sized, (and re-inserted in the same rifle) it is headspacing from the shoulder, which is proven to be a more accurate loading technique, all other things being equal.
However, since no two chambers are the exact same size, all factory ammo is made small enough to fit any rifle, without dangerous pressure spikes upon ignition in a small or "tight" chamber.
yes, H&H may have had a different initial idea, but as is the way of any industry, other companies take your idea, and experiment on it to create new avenues for performance in a product they can offer. The belt was found to increase the web strength, and the belted magnums were "born by fire", all punn intended. Also, the industry, when creating new calibers etc, will often use a "parent" cartridge. The parent cartridge in this case, being the belted H&H case, which would have made it a necessity to re-tool existing machines and dies to cut the chambers and form the cases for the new calibers, without the belt. That would eat into the profit they expected from the new calibers, and therefore, it was left alone for yet another reason. Notice the only new magnums invented since the belted magnums,....have been the cases based on the 404 jeffrey and 416 rigby, which have much thicker brass at the case head and web area, due to thier original design purpose of pushing 300-500grain bullets with a powder charge in the 120gr range. that kind of punishment requires brass that will sustain that intial pressure boost, while not rupturing. they made the perfect case for the new supermagnums with no belt and with which to headspace from the shoulder. AND, it only took 100yrs to figure that out.[;)]
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?
http://www.larrywillis.com/answers.html
"FEAR the Goverment, that fears your ARMS"<br>
27. Why not switch to one of the new unbelted magnums?
Some of the new unbelted magnum cartridges might be pretty good. However, many of them are loaded to extremely high pressure so that they can compete with the performance of existing belted magnums. Some of these cartridges are loaded hot enough to cause visible damage to the throat after firing very few rounds. They usually reduce magazine capacity and it is very common with the short unbelted magnums to have fired cases stick in the chamber, causing difficult case extraction. Some of these new unbelted magnums might become popular while others will disappear forever.
So, The new non-belted magnums are faulty? That's funny,..because all of the benchrest shooters I have talked to who have switched over to the short mags state they are inherently more accurate (off topic but worth stating) and I have yet to hear a single person tell me they have ever had a case stick in the chamber, And let's be real,...the benchrest shooters are the ones who pretty much invent the new cartridges that make it to the market, as well as shoot these cartridges in the closest tolerance, tightest chambers, in the world. No chamber specs out to the tolerances of a well built benchrest rifle, even if it is a 1000yd+ bench gun.
Also, what is this business about burning a throat, or showing noticeable erosion in only a few rounds? Not even the 30-378 weatherby (the epitome of over-bore) eats a throat after only a few firings,....and the RUM's are several hundred fps behind that loading. I know of 300rum's on thier 1200th round with NO signs of accuracy degradation thus far.
4. I've heard that it is best to headspace on the shoulder and not on the belt. Is that true?
Yes. If you headspace on the belt, the shoulder of your case will have to be blown forward against the shoulder of your chamber, when fired. This will stretch your brass and can cause case separations.
So, if you don't use his die your case head will seperate? I called and asked the rangemaster for our local police dept, who is also a benchrest competitor and past winner at Quantico, about how many times his brass in the Stolle actioned, 300wthby he uses for competition has seperated,....it hasn't.
Not to take away from his idea, or his product,...maybe it is in it's infancy and will dominate the circuit,...but I will remain skeptical and stick with my original conclusion.
I mean no disrespect 11echo, and wish not to insult your research, I just come from a different school of thought and have trouble with some of the theories listed on that page.
As for the belt,..I will concede that the jury is still out.
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?
I'd like to submit a link to a reloading die maker. Please look at question number 24 frist, then read the other questions ...very enlightening!! ...Mark
http://www.larrywillis.com/answers.html
"FEAR the Goverment, that fears your ARMS"<br>
I've seen Larry Willis, and his die, chewed up and spit out on every board that has experanced "belted mag" reloaders on it.
The only people with a possable need for it, are those with defective chambers. Bottom line is that his die is just another un-needed gimmick for the newbie "belted magnum" reloader to waste his money on.
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
"FEAR the Goverment, that fears your ARMS"