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Black tipped 30 cal

Mr. GunzMr. Gunz Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭
edited July 2007 in Ask the Experts
What is the weight of those Black Tipped AP rounds???

Comments

  • gunnut505gunnut505 Member Posts: 10,290
    edited November -1
    164 gr. nominal
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    We used 174 gr M1 Ball and 150 gr M2 Ball in the Army. It was all WW2 stock.
    Orders came down that M2 Ball was only to be used for practice.
    As I recall the M1 Ball was black tipped and M2 was uncolored.
    Now I read Gen Hatcher indicates a standardized blacktipped 168.5 gr M2 AP Ball in his book of 1947. I'm confused but fairly sure of my experience.
    The black tipped M2 ball may have been post WW2 issue.
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,664 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    mine weigh 174 grains
  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by v35
    We used 174 gr M1 Ball and 150 gr M2 Ball in the Army. It was all WW2 stock.
    Orders came down that M2 Ball was only to be used for practice.
    As I recall the M1 Ball was black tipped and M2 was uncolored.
    Now I read Gen Hatcher indicates a standardized blacktipped 168.5 gr M2 AP Ball in his book of 1947. I'm confused but fairly sure of my experience.
    The black tipped M2 ball may have been post WW2 issue.


    v35 - AFAIK, the US military has never issued any black-tipped ball ammo in any chambering (nor has anyone else). With only one exception - Frankford Arsenal Caliber .30 M1, lot 2160 of 1941 - none of the .30-06 issued has had any colored tips, and those used silver, much shorter than normal practice (roughly 4mm coverage vs. the typical 15mm or so). Yes, silver was later used to designate API, but this marking did not come into use until after the war. The reason for this lot & marking was that the military had "switched back" to the M2 (basically the M1906 design but with gilding metal jacket rather than the cupro-nickel) from the M1. The USN was not prepared for the change (they had resisted it) and prevailed on FA to produce one lot especially for them to tide them over as they were making the transition.

    Long story short, I'm reasonably confident that if you were firing black tipped ammo, it was AP unless there was some economy effort of which I'm unaware.
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The 30-06 M1 Ball black tip was AP 174 gr. Tracers were red tipped &
    M2 ball was lead cored with plain guilded metal jackets.
    I also got and fired some blue tip 30-06 API from a bent mg out of a crashed plane. I don't recall headstamps of the any of the 06 Ball except that it was all old corrosive stocks.
    As we had M1 & M2 '06, the only way to distinguish them, once out of the packing case was by tip color.
  • AdamsQuailHunterAdamsQuailHunter Member Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello "MrGunz"[:)]

    Please forgive me for "hijacking" your thread, but there is something I need to get off my chest.

    If you are going to use a foreign language phrase such as:
    qui non est hodie cras minus aptus erit
    then put in () the English translation.

    Many Thanks[:)]
    Steve Adams stepping down off soapbox
    AdamsQuailHunter on Gunbroker
  • 788-308788-308 Member Posts: 179 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    M-61, Armor Piercing-150.5gr. nominal wt.
    TM 43-0001-27
  • heavyironheavyiron Member Posts: 1,421 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi,

    Which caliber of black tipped cartridges are you talking about? There are two different black tipped AP rounds commonly encountered.

    The black tipped M2 AP bullet for the caliber 30 ammunition weighed 168 grains, with a flat-based bullet and muzzle velocity of 2775 fps (sources vary slightly). The black tipped M61 AP bullet was for the 7.62 Nato and weighs 150.5 grains with a muzzle velocity of 2750 fps.

    The below photo is illustrates two boxes (the lower two) of WWII vintage AP rounds in my collection. All the rounds in both boxes are black tipped, M2 AP bullet ammunition.

    Cartridgeboxes-1.jpg

    Blue tipped rounds are incendiary only. Silver tipped rounds are AP-I or armor piercing incendiary.

    Hope this helps straight this issue out.

    Heavyiron
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,664 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by AdamsQuailHunter
    Hello "MrGunz"[:)]

    Please forgive me for "hijacking" your thread, but there is something I need to get off my chest.

    If you are going to use a foreign language phrase such as:
    qui non est hodie cras minus aptus erit
    then put in () the English translation.

    Many Thanks[:)]
    Steve Adams stepping down off soapbox
    AdamsQuailHunter on Gunbroker


    What on earth for?
  • Mr. GunzMr. Gunz Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
    quote:Originally posted by AdamsQuailHunter
    Hello "MrGunz"[:)]

    Please forgive me for "hijacking" your thread, but there is something I need to get off my chest.

    If you are going to use a foreign language phrase such as:
    qui non est hodie cras minus aptus erit
    then put in () the English translation.

    Many Thanks[:)]
    Steve Adams stepping down off soapbox
    AdamsQuailHunter on Gunbroker


    What on earth for?



    What are you talkin about
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