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Swiss-Swede 7.5mm revolver .32 cal steel cylinder?

JuggernautJuggernaut Member Posts: 719 ✭✭✭✭
edited August 2012 in Ask the Experts
Similar to the .32 cal steel cylinder in a Russian 1895 Nagant, would it also possibly work in the Swiss Schmidt 7.5mm or Swede Nagant 7.5mm?
Thanks

Edit:
Edited so as not to confuse some with Swiss and Nagant.

Regards

Comments

  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    As I recall, the Swede is a different caliber. Actually both are, but at least the Swiss is also 7.5.

    Swiss? Probably not but I don't have a Swiss to check it in,; besides, replacing ANY cylinder should be checked for timing.
  • rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,649 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Your question isn't entirely clear?

    I load for a Swedish Model 1887 Nagant. Supposedly it's 7.5mm, but slugging the barrel the groove diameter is .308. I use 32-20 brass and .308 TMJ carbine bullets loaded over light loads of AA 2, for safe, accurate, light plinking loads.

    Dating from the late 1880's these revolvers were made for low pressure Black Powder cartridges. Great care has to be exercised if you intend to reload these with modern smokeless powder.

    Although I owned one of the Swiss 7.5mm revolvers years ago, I never reloaded for it. My understanding is that the cartridge is the same as used for the Swedish Model 1887's. Although the Swiss revolvers were made as late as the 1930's, well into the smokeless powder era.


    EDIT #1, All the Russian Nagant revolvers I owned over the years had 7 shot cylinders. Doubtful that they could be used in the Swede Model 1887's, which are 6 shot. Most likely the Russian cylinders would have a larger O.D. and the ratchet lugs in the back of the cylinder would be compatible with the Swede's hand mechanism.


    EDIT #2, When I first started loading for the Swede, had a lot of problems with the cylinder binding up. Found that the cartridge has to be loaded hot enough that the brass case expands enough to adhere to the chamber walls. Drilled the flash hole out to 1/8, and increased the powder charge to fix this problem.

    Even though the .32 ACP might chamber and function in the Swede, you might be faced with the same problem?
  • JuggernautJuggernaut Member Posts: 719 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yes there is both a Swiss and Swede 7.5mm Revolver.

    Very well, I am trying to see if the new made .32 caliber steel replacement cylinders for the Russian 1895 Nagant 7.62x38mm Revolver might also work in the Swiss and Swede 7.5mm Revolvers being that the .32 caliber is relatively close to the other calibers and dimensions?

    At the very least I would think that a skilled professional gunsmith might be able to do the work, as it would be great to shoot readily available .32 caliber ammunition out of these classics, which was my goal since the other ammunition is so scarce.

    Regards
  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    The amount you would spend on the cylinder plus gunsmith work, even if it could be done, would be a lot more than a basic reloading setup... just saying.

    So to go into more detail from my previous post...

    To be frank, the Swiss 1882 is not technically a nagant design at all. Shooting the diminutive 7.5X22R, at very least you would have to have a lot removed from the front of the longer 7.62X38R cylinder; even the ACP replacement would be of this external dimension. I have read that some Swedish 1887s were converted to .32, so I guess it is doable, the question again is cost.

    I also think that due to the difference in design, being older, the Swedish model will not take the later 95 cylinder even with mods. The Schmidt-designed Swiss 1882 surely won't.
  • JuggernautJuggernaut Member Posts: 719 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    And is why I didn't refer to the Swiss as a Nagant Revolver and just the Swede(however fixed it so that there wouldn't be any confusion for some with Swiss and Nagant). Both Swiss Schmidt and Swede Nagant are a 7.5mm Revolver which Emile Nagant developed the 7.5mm '1882 ordnance' used by both the Swiss and Swede Revolvers.
    The other point would be that the maximum pressure that the 7.5mm '1882 ordnance' produces (26,800) and the max pressure for the .32 caliber is (21,000).
    I have also heard of individuals shooting the .32 caliber in the 7.5mm Revolvers with no problems although like the Russian 1895 Nagant Revolver it more than likely wont seal properly for alot of blow by and such and really needs the proper cylinder.
    I think that a skilled gunsmith might be able to get it to work and would be an interesting project if possible and would certainly be an improvement to shoot with the right cylinder in .32 caliber.

    Regards
  • hedgehopper62hedgehopper62 Member Posts: 636 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have most of the nagant pistols,The swede and swiss cyl. do not move ahead like the rest I dont think the cyl will work.I have been buying new swiss shells and they work in my swede.I load using the same as ruff-snow,but use pryodex or unique.tks hedge[:D]
  • JuggernautJuggernaut Member Posts: 719 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by hedgehopper62
    I have most of the nagant pistols,The swede and swiss cyl. do not move ahead like the rest I dont think the cyl will work.I have been buying new swiss shells and they work in my swede.I load using the same as ruff-snow,but use pryodex or unique.tks hedge[:D]

    The maximum pressure that the 7.5mm '1882 ordnance' produces (26,800) and the max pressure for the .32 caliber is (21,000) and the .32-20 is only (9,000) and uses lead rounds, fmj or jhp are always preferred imho.

    7.5mm 1882 Ordnance Overall length is 34.60 mm (1.362 in) and the Neck diameter .337 in (8.6 mm), the Bullet diameter is 8.00 mm (0.315 in)(Swiss)/8.30 mm (0.327 in) (Swedish).
    .32 caliber overall length is 1.350 in (34.3 mm) and the Neck diameter .337 in (8.6 mm), the Bullet diameter .312 in (7.9 mm).

    Reportedly several have stated that they shoot .32 caliber in their Swiss and Swede 7.5mm Revolvers without any problems... Can you check on this(without shooting) if a .32 caliber cartridge will fit both Swiss and Swede 7.5mm Revolvers just to verify that which would answer alot of questions at least?

    Regards
  • hedgehopper62hedgehopper62 Member Posts: 636 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I show the bullet dia for swiss .317 and swede .325 32S&W is.312 I also have a french 8mm same gun at .323the 32S&W fit the cyl.but I would nt shoot them in them but I have in the russian.I form fire every thing before I load them.the 32S&W buldge the brass to much in any of the guns I have.I also have a CV nagant in 7.62X25 marked chek police.tks hedge[:D]
  • JuggernautJuggernaut Member Posts: 719 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by hedgehopper62
    I show the bullet dia for swiss .317 and swede .325 32S&W is.312 I also have a french 8mm same gun at .323the 32S&W fit the cyl.but I would nt shoot them in them but I have in the russian.I form fire every thing before I load them.the 32S&W buldge the brass to much in any of the guns I have.I also have a CV nagant in 7.62X25 marked chek police.tks hedge[:D]


    The best match for the .32 caliber would seem to be the Swiss Schmidt 7.5mm although the Swede Nagant would probably work as well by all the measurements, I will have to wait apparently until I can get them and check.

    .32 caliber in the Russian 1895 Nagant is fine and is even advertised as such and I shoot them all the time in my Target Nagant with no problems at all and little if any case bulge, accurate too.

    Did you mean 'CZ-52 7.62x25', as there is no Nagant Revolver that I know of that is chambered for the Tokarev 7.62x25mm cartridge which should never be used in the Nagant Revolver.

    Regards
  • hedgehopper62hedgehopper62 Member Posts: 636 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yes I confirm its a 7.62X25 CZ proofs nagant.I do not have gun with me,Its in storage.tks hedge[:D]
  • JuggernautJuggernaut Member Posts: 719 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by hedgehopper62
    Yes I confirm its a 7.62X25 CZ proofs nagant.I do not have gun with me,Its in storage.tks hedge[:D]


    The CZ52 7.62x25mm is not a Nagant and was designed by Kratochvil and uses the 7.62x25mm Tokarev cartridge.

    Thanks everyone for the helpful information.

    Regards
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