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Why Do Police So Rarely Believe In...
OJMayo
Member Posts: 704 ✭✭✭✭
....self defense for non law enforcement ?
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This is a great opportunity for OJ and Fatboy to look like fools though. I'm awaiting Bondai's response !
No wonder you've got such a skewed view of things.
Are you talking about lethal self defense or non-lethal? Lots of LEOs I know always caution against killing someone, but they are all for civvies not being made victims of.
OJMayo,
Are you talking about lethal self defense or non-lethal? Lots of LEOs I know always caution against killing someone, but they are all for civvies not being made victims of.
both. but when it is lethal the onus seems to be on the part of the victim to prove it was self defense. also, when it comes to fights the police always seem to arrest both parties and/or arrest the victorious party for some reason.
i must add, i am almost always on the side of law enforcement.
there have been many article posted here on GB about people using firearms in self defense and the articles almost always quote a police chief or prosecutor saying something like "the evidence at this time shows there might be a self defense argument but we will continue to investigate" and this is when it is almost always obvious it WAS self defense.
quote:Originally posted by Ba Sardo
OJMayo,
Are you talking about lethal self defense or non-lethal? Lots of LEOs I know always caution against killing someone, but they are all for civvies not being made victims of.
both. but when it is lethal the onus seems to be on the part of the victim to prove it was self defense. also, when it comes to fights the police always seem to arrest both parties and/or arrest the victorious party for some reason.
i must add, i am almost always on the side of law enforcement.
there have been many article posted here on GB about people using firearms in self defense and the articles almost always quote a police chief or prosecutor saying something like "the evidence at this time shows there might be a self defense argument but we will continue to investigate" and this is when it is almost always obvious it WAS self defense.
When it's lethal, of course the onus is on the part of the "victim" to prove it was self-defense. Dead men tell no tales, after all. And cops have to investigate, no matter how open and shut a case may seem because not everything is what it seems.
Great... you're relying on reality TV for your information?!?
No wonder you've got such a skewed view of things.
damn CNN
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.
Great... you're relying on reality TV for your information?!?
No wonder you've got such a skewed view of things.
Bad boys bad boys
Whatcha gonna do?
Whatcha gonna do
When they come for you?
I'm gonna go to Gunbroker
I'm gonna be a troll
I'm gonna make some dumb posts
I don't care if I get banned at all.
Bad boys bad boys
Whatcha gonna do?
Whatcha gonna do
When they come for you?
If they kick me off it
I'm gonna change my name
Doesn't matter if its once or twice
To me it is all the same
Bad boys bad boys
Whatcha gonna do?
Whatcha gonna do
When they come for you?
Geez.....what makes you believe that is true ?
This is a great opportunity for OJ and Fatboy to look like fools though. I'm awaiting Bondai's response !
I think you mean its more of a good chance to get you crying again don't you now? You know I'm right on this, I do agree that not all are this way, but you know most of todays cops have the attitude I've talked about.
I dispute your contention that a majority of cops oppose self-defense. Every study that I have seen shows that rank and file cops favor gun ownership and the use of guns in self-defense (around 80% if I recall correctly).
You have to remember that public relations office requires the cops to say things like "don't resist" to avoid lawsuits. Also bear in mind cops in NYC and Chicago are likely more anti-gun than cops everywhere else, and the police chiefs (who are more politician than cop in big cities) are more likely to be toadies for the mayor and spout anti-gun slogans.
When I shot an armed robber in 1975 the cops lined up to thank me for taking the scum off the street. I wasn't taken into custody, and I got my gun back the next day.
As others have noted, be wary of using TV as a source for ANY information and you might to make sure you know what you're talking about before you go spouting off in public.
Too old to live...too young to die...
Twenty years of law enforcement and several lethal self defense incidents I have handled, so I will tell you that LEO's do want you to defend yourself, but they do want you to get it right. That requires YOU to know your state laws on self defense. And don't rely on what you read on the internet, or what a friend told you. Take a college class from a working LEO to learn the facts.
To detain people at a homicide is SOP in most departments, and if you think that the COPS TV program is a teaching tool, you are sadly mistaken. It's a TV show that is edited for entrainment value, not to get the facts right.
Fatboy:
And I worked through 1975 and I have no idea why that year has any significance as to peace officers and law enforcement. During the 70's the Policy and Procedures were standardized throughout the nation. But other than that the patrol cars went from the bubble light to a light bar. And also we went from low band radios to high band.
Margaret Thatcher
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain
Yes, cops enforce the laws. Even the ones they don't like. Any cop who simply can't bring himself to enforce laws he thinks are wrong should find other work. Meanwhile, blame the legislators for the bad laws, they wrote them, not the cops who are told to enforce them.
Too old to live...too young to die...
--every time there is a social/domestic/public incident-especially if a firearm has been used--
--THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "OBVIOUS SELF DEFENSE" and it has to be treated "entotal"--then the cards will fall where they may--
--[:D][:D]--JIMBO
[8D]-It doesn't matter what the service makeup of the investigating officer is--
--every time there is a social/domestic/public incident-especially if a firearm has been used--
--THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "OBVIOUS SELF DEFENSE" and it has to be treated "entotal"--then the cards will fall where they may--
--[:D][:D]--JIMBO
Thats the thing. It does not have to be treated "entotal". It is chosen to be treated as such. We all are stewards of right, and wrong. Just becasue something is made into a law, does not mean its wrong. Just becasuae there is no law against something, does not make it right.
Even cops involved in shootings are detained for investigation and have to wait for the case to go to a grand jury.
I talk to cops. They've been uniformally in favor of self defense by civilians - they'd much rather fill out a report on a dead scumbag than a raped victim.
+1
....self defense for non law enforcement ?
Hmmm.... As it happens I have a few friends in Law enforcement ...all of them support CCW, a couple even teach the classes.....Were are you getting you info, Dianne Feinstein's website?
I also understand that it is not going to be cheap to clear it up. I estimate it will cost at least $2000.
But also be aware that I am going to try to make sure there is only one story told.
Again the 1975 distinction escapes me.
Margaret Thatcher
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain
....self defense for non law enforcement ?
Everyone I know here is all for it. You find a lot of Police Chiefs who are against it and CHL because they work for a democratic mayor who'll fire them if they don't support their anti-gun liberal agenda.
My question to you is this: Who's call is it to judge the law "bad"? If everyone resorts to personal opinion regarding which laws they will follow or enforce, there is only one outcome. It is called anarchy.
Fatboy - You continue to state that if a law isn't "fair" or it is "bad" that the LEO's should just ignore it (i.e. not enforce).
My question to you is this: Who's call is it to judge the law "bad"? If everyone resorts to personal opinion regarding which laws they will follow or enforce, there is only one outcome. It is called anarchy.
Common sense is what should prevail. It seems to be lost on many here.
Fatboy: I wish you would refer me to the difference in your state, between "peace officer" and "law enforcement". I have never come across a distinction, and wonder if there is a difference in the oath they may take when sworn in.
Again the 1975 distinction escapes me.
Alpine, the difference is not in oath, its in attitude. The 1975 distinction should not escape anyone. In that era of this country, there were still many more with the attitude of peace officer, than LEO.