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 modifying a shotgun to less than 18"
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Henry0Reilly
Advanced Member

USA
14584 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  12:50:16 PM  Show Profile
I have a relative who calls me every time he has a firearm question.

He owns a VEPR-12 that he wants to make lighter by shortening the barrel. I tried explaining to him that no matter how tacti-cool it might be he won't gain much in terms of weight reduction and it would be offset by greater recoil and muzzle blast.

I looked up ATF Form 1 and it doesn't seem to apply here nor was their FAQ page helpful.

Is there a legal way to cut a shotgun barrel down?


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mark christian
Administrator

USA
31973 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  1:07:45 PM  Show Profile
The modification will result in a Short Barreled Shotgun. A Form 1 must be filed, the $200 tax paid, and the form approved before the barrel can be cut down to below 18 inches.
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pip5255
Advanced Member

USA
7671 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  1:09:10 PM  Show Profile
less then 18" barrel or less then 26" overall length is illegal, you can lighten overall weigh by using lighter stocks but unfortunately steel weight is steel weight and not much you can do about it.

tired not retired !
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Hawk Carse
Advanced Member

4211 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  1:09:22 PM  Show Profile
Note particularly, making a Short Barrelled Shotgun requires prior approval before you cut.

Edited by - Hawk Carse on 03/11/2018 1:10:06 PM
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rufe-snow
Advanced Member

18236 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  1:11:34 PM  Show Profile
I've seen the ones that Mossberg is selling now. They have 14" barrels with a shortened stock. And are just over 26" long.

If Mossberg can sell shotguns like that. I don't see why a person could't do that to their own shotgun. But I'm not a lawyer, (Thank God).

Best have him check with the feds. Before he takes a hacksaw to his shotgun. Shotgun barrels at one time, had to be 18" long to be legal. I don't honestly know how Mossberg, can now be selling them with 14" barrels?

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iceracerx
Advanced Member

USA
8844 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  1:41:16 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by rufe-snow

I've seen the ones that Mossberg is selling now. They have 14" barrels with a shortened stock. And are just over 26" long.

If Mossberg can sell shotguns like that. I don't see why a person could't do that to their own shotgun. But I'm not a lawyer, (Thank God).

Best have him check with the feds. Before he takes a hacksaw to his shotgun. Shotgun barrels at one time, had to be 18" long to be legal. I don't honestly know how Mossberg, can now be selling them with 14" barrels?



That's because Mossberg ISN'T selling 'shotguns' "like that".
Mossberg is manufacturing FIREARMS (as classified by the BATF) originally configured "like that".

The Shockwave isn't (or wasn't, last I knew) legal in all states.

Remington also makes a 'firearm' like the Shockwave.
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charliemeyer007
Advanced Member

USA
5790 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  1:55:38 PM  Show Profile
Manufactured New as a short barreled shotgun can be in the Any Other Weapon (must have never been a long gun) class that is a $5 transfer fee, cutting a regular one down is the $200 fee.

I knew the people that did the Witness Protection Shotgun, an 870 Rem pistol gripped and the barrel ends at the magazine tube (12" IIRC). The forearm grip was modeled from the Thompson design. They bought new receivers only from Remington, had their manufacturing license and the BATF approval letter before they made the first one.

added It's the gubernment don't expect it to make any sense, just obey the rules or expect a long stay at the gray bar hotel.

Edited by - charliemeyer007 on 03/11/2018 2:34:57 PM
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rufe-snow
Advanced Member

18236 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  2:00:28 PM  Show Profile
quote:


That's because Mossberg ISN'T selling 'shotguns' "like that".
Mossberg is manufacturing FIREARMS (as classified by the BATF) originally configured "like that".

The Shockwave isn't (or wasn't, last I knew) legal in all states.

Remington also makes a 'firearm' like the Shockwave.




Don't understand this at all. If Mossberg/Remington are selling FIREARMS in this configuration. Why can't you do this to a FIREARM . That you legally own?

The firearms you mentioned are not by definition, SHOTGUNS. They are firearms which fire a shotgun shell. To be a shotgun the firearm must have a butt stock. The OP's firearm has a butt stock so it is in fact a shotgun and cannot have a barrel less than 18 inches or an OAL below 26 inches.

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Bill DeShivs
Senior Member

USA
1267 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  2:27:25 PM  Show Profile
"Firearm" is a specific designation. If the receiver has never had a shoulder stock attached, it can be manufactured as a "firearm" having a bbl less than 18"-as long as the overall length remains 26" or more.
The only guns you can legally do this to are guns like the Mossberg Cruiser that came with a pistol grip.
Hope that explains it.

Bill DeShivs
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rufe-snow
Advanced Member

18236 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  2:40:23 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Bill DeShivs

"Firearm" is a specific designation. If the receiver has never had a shoulder stock attached, it can be manufactured as a "firearm" having a bbl less than 18"-as long as the overall length remains 26" or more.
The only guns you can legally do this to are guns like the Mossberg Cruiser that came with a pistol grip.
Hope that explains it.




In the 80's when I was in the business. We used to sell Mossberg,"Combo Guns". They came with 2 barrels, and both pistol grip and stock. What would their classification be? Sorry, but I just don't buy this Firearms BS.

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iceracerx
Advanced Member

USA
8844 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  3:15:24 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by rufe-snow

quote:
Originally posted by Bill DeShivs

"Firearm" is a specific designation. If the receiver has never had a shoulder stock attached, it can be manufactured as a "firearm" having a bbl less than 18"-as long as the overall length remains 26" or more.
The only guns you can legally do this to are guns like the Mossberg Cruiser that came with a pistol grip.
Hope that explains it.



In the 80's when I was in the business. We used to sell Mossberg,"Combo Guns". They came with 2 barrels, and both pistol grip and stock. What would their classification be? Sorry, but I just don't buy this Firearms BS.



https://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Shockwave-Letter-from-ATF-3-2-17.pdf
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Hangfire
Advanced Member

3131 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  3:17:20 PM  Show Profile
Rufe-read this again, and check-out the links.. I recently talked to Brian,who posted the question.. He lives in Colorado, and recently purchased a Shockwave in a LGS..Seems to like it, using Aguila Mini-Shotshells..

http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=693336

Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob

https://membership.nrahq.org/
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gruntled
Advanced Member

10773 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  3:23:11 PM  Show Profile
REMEMBER RUBY RIDGE!
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Bill DeShivs
Senior Member

USA
1267 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  3:42:03 PM  Show Profile
Mossberg "Combo guns" would be a grey area, unless you never put the shoulder stock on the gun.
It doesn't matter whether you believe this "firearm" BS, it's true.
IMO, you gain nothing from owning one-as they still have to be 26" OAL, just like a shotgun.
I'm of the opinion, if you want a sawed off shotgun-do it right. Get the tax stamp.

Bill DeShivs
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mark christian
Administrator

USA
31973 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  4:15:58 PM  Show Profile
The firearm started out as a shotgun, which means that it has a stock. If you cut the barrel down below 18 inches you have created a Short Barrel Shotgun which must be registered.
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