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 LUGER 1900? 1920? This is driving me crazy
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Locust Fork
Moderator

USA
29668 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2018 :  11:35:39 AM  Show Profile
https://www.GunBroker.com/item/752403231


The thing that is driving me bonkers on this is the serial number range and barrel length.

People are telling me that this is not a 1900 because it doesn't have the "bug" proof mark and it is an N over crown.

What I've seen the DWM 1900's were serial number range 2000 to 19000 and have a 4.75" barrel.....which this has.

The 1920 DWM has a 4 inch barrel....which this does not have.

What am I missing? Is this a 1900???

Click here to check out my auctions?..I double dog dare you to!!!

Hawk Carse
Advanced Member

4210 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2018 :  11:57:12 AM  Show Profile
No.
The gun you link has up to fire safety, full checkered toggle knobs, rounded breechblock, and stock lug. None of which is seen on a 1900. Also the full serial number is 4534k which is not the same thing as 4534. And it does not look like a 4.75" barrel to me.
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rufe-snow
Advanced Member

18236 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2018 :  12:12:32 PM  Show Profile
Not a 1900. Check out the Luger in my signature. It's a American Eagle, 1900.

Your post has me very confused? The photos you link to, show a Luger. W W I type, with a military serial number. Is it possible that you have mixed up the photos? With a different Luger, that you were going to auction off?




EDIT #1,

The "Germany" marking, is a requirement of U.S. import law. All foreign made manufactured products. Imported into the U.S. for commercial sale, have to be marked with country of origin.

After the end of the First World War, in 1918. A small cottage industry sprung up in Germany. With various gunsmiths and manufactures, assembling war surplus Lugers, for sale to the U.S. market. They are know as "1920 Commercials". And are considered by Luger collectors, to be the red headed step child, of the military/commercial Lugers.



Edited by - rufe-snow on 03/01/2018 1:32:09 PM
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Locust Fork
Moderator

USA
29668 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2018 :  12:59:50 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by rufe-snow

Not a 1900. Check out the Luger in my signature. It's a American Eagle, 1900.

Your post has me very confused? The photos you link to, show a Luger. W W I type, with a military serial number. Is it possible that you have mixed up the photos? With a different Luger, that you were going to auction off?




The confusion started with the owner....he gave it to me and said "its a 1900 1st year production" and my brain has been trying to make this square peg fit in that round hole ever since.


So, I need to just drop 1900 completely. I don't see enough of these to remember much about them. This will be a WWI military DWM??? Why is the word GERMANY in English on the side?

I know.....I'm making this a lot harder than it has to be.

Click here to check out my auctions?..I double dog dare you to!!!

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Locust Fork
Moderator

USA
29668 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2018 :  1:01:54 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Hawk Carse

No.
The gun you link has up to fire safety, full checkered toggle knobs, rounded breechblock, and stock lug. None of which is seen on a 1900. Also the full serial number is 4534k which is not the same thing as 4534. And it does not look like a 4.75" barrel to me.




You are right.....its 3.75....that is what I get for listing this at 9pm after working on 23 other auctions.

Click here to check out my auctions?..I double dog dare you to!!!

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Hawk Carse
Advanced Member

4210 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2018 :  1:25:13 PM  Show Profile
Best I can tell, it USED to be a WWI DWM P08.
Production of 9mm pistols was severely limited by the Versailles Treaty. A lot of guns were rebarrelled to .30 or assembled from parts as .30s.
This one was obviously exported to the USA, there had been a requirement for country of origin on guns since about 1903.

You can really get down in the weeds on the fine details of such guns, or any Luger. As the wit said: "They made a million Lugers and if you listen to a collector, each and every one was a separate and distinct model."
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Locust Fork
Moderator

USA
29668 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2018 :  1:36:33 PM  Show Profile
See if I edited the listing properly.....I took out 1900 added WWI and corrected the breachblock to be "rounded" and fixed the barrel length to be 3.75.

I appreciate yall's help. I'm uploading a bunch of TC barrels to go along with a pistol I've got started. If you want to test your mental skills try sorting out Luger details while uploading barrel auctions.

Click here to check out my auctions?..I double dog dare you to!!!

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rufe-snow
Advanced Member

18236 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2018 :  5:08:48 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Locust Fork

See if I edited the listing properly.....I took out 1900 added WWI and corrected the breachblock to be "rounded" and fixed the barrel length to be 3.75.

I appreciate yall's help. I'm uploading a bunch of TC barrels to go along with a pistol I've got started. If you want to test your mental skills try sorting out Luger details while uploading barrel auctions.




I would revise the auction, re the following points. As a winning bidder, who wanted to dispute your information. Could cause you problems.

#1, "prewar blue", It's a post W W I parts gun. With a undated receiver.

#2, "Very early production pistol", See above.

#3, "Original unaltered", See above.

#4, "Very rare", Seemingly untold thousands of "1920 Commercials" were made by every body and their BIL's. Who were able to get their hands, on surplus Lugers/parts and 30 caliber barrels.

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Locust Fork
Moderator

USA
29668 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2018 :  6:03:33 PM  Show Profile
I think calling it a parts gun is a little on the harsh side since it has matching numbers on the receiver, barrel, safety, back of the charge handle thingamajig.

I've seen Lugers with mismatched numbers on every single part....thats something I would call a "parts" gun.....wouldn't you agree???

Click here to check out my auctions?..I double dog dare you to!!!


Edited by - Locust Fork on 03/01/2018 6:04:07 PM
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Locust Fork
Moderator

USA
29668 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2018 :  6:14:11 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Hawk Carse

Best I can tell, it USED to be a WWI DWM P08.
Production of 9mm pistols was severely limited by the Versailles Treaty. A lot of guns were rebarrelled to .30 or assembled from parts as .30s.
This one was obviously exported to the USA, there had been a requirement for country of origin on guns since about 1903.

You can really get down in the weeds on the fine details of such guns, or any Luger. As the wit said: "They made a million Lugers and if you listen to a collector, each and every one was a separate and distinct model."



Agreed....yesterday I looked and there are so many forums on Lugers it has to be one of the most covered subjects as far as a single gun goes. The more info I found the more confused it got though. I think the problem is there is a tidbit on each thing here and there. It would be really hard to cover all the little details with all the variations there are on these.

Click here to check out my auctions?..I double dog dare you to!!!

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perry shooter
Advanced Member

17546 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2018 :  7:01:23 PM  Show Profile
Kasey you know how much details that are in clawson's book on 1911 .. it is nothing compaired to the ammount or pages that details Lugers. a basic one is LUGERS AT RANDOM by CHARLES KENYON ISBN 0-945828-02-0but the most detailed is the books byJAN C. STILL he has at lease 4 on different time frames if it were me I might start over with this one as to what it is sorry dont want to sound rude But us GERMANS are fussy on lugers in the details than any other pistol I know of The serial numbers on the pistol itself have both serial number and one letter but some had 5 numbers most had 4 of them and also one letter serial numbers went from 1 to to 9999 then started over with different letter each letter could be a month however many many small parts have last 2 digits the same as the full serial number I used to have a number of lugers including 3 NAVY models and one CARBINE I sold all my lugers except 2 because they got too expensive to keep and be scared to shoot because breaking even one of those small parts with the 2 numbers a part that was matching those last 2 digits could turn a $10,000 all matching pistol into a $5000 miss match if that much

Edited by - perry shooter on 03/01/2018 7:06:28 PM
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Locust Fork
Moderator

USA
29668 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2018 :  7:30:20 PM  Show Profile
This one has matching numbers on everything that I have found numbers on...the frame, back of the charge handle, barrel and safety lever. I didn't take it apart, but there might be more numbers to be found. Everything has either the whole number or the last two matching numbers....so I am certain enough about it not being a parts gun.

My thing about this one has been a pain because the owner of it told me it was a 1900.....and I quickly (ish) learned that was wrong. Then I thought it was a 1920...which wasn't right either.

I have spent more time looking at Luger forums and such the past two days and I think that actually did more harm than good. I feel like the more I find out about these the more confused I get.

Someone said it used to be a PO8....I don't know what a PO8 is or what changed to make it no longer a PO8...so that is something to add to the "wonder" I have been stuck in for two straight days.

Its one of those things I liked a lot more before I started working on it.

Click here to check out my auctions?..I double dog dare you to!!!

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62fuelie
Senior Member

USA
1004 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2018 :  9:10:39 PM  Show Profile
Check the mainspring. I believe the 1900 used a leaf style and the P-'08 used coil. Proceed from there.

B
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rufe-snow
Advanced Member

18236 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2018 :  9:41:58 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Locust Fork

This one has matching numbers on everything that I have found numbers on...the frame, back of the charge handle, barrel and safety lever. I didn't take it apart, but there might be more numbers to be found. Everything has either the whole number or the last two matching numbers....so I am certain enough about it not being a parts gun.

My thing about this one has been a pain because the owner of it told me it was a 1900.....and I quickly (ish) learned that was wrong. Then I thought it was a 1920...which wasn't right either.

I have spent more time looking at Luger forums and such the past two days and I think that actually did more harm than good. I feel like the more I find out about these the more confused I get.

Someone said it used to be a PO8....I don't know what a PO8 is or what changed to make it no longer a PO8...so that is something to add to the "wonder" I have been stuck in for two straight days.

Its one of those things I liked a lot more before I started working on it.




The German Army adopted the Luger as there standard handgun in 1908. Therefore it was identified as the Pistol-08 or P 08. After it was reworked with a shorter 30 Luger barrel. After the First World, it lost it's military identity. And became a 1920 commercial.

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Locust Fork
Moderator

USA
29668 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2018 :  10:09:54 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by rufe-snow

quote:
Originally posted by Locust Fork

This one has matching numbers on everything that I have found numbers on...the frame, back of the charge handle, barrel and safety lever. I didn't take it apart, but there might be more numbers to be found. Everything has either the whole number or the last two matching numbers....so I am certain enough about it not being a parts gun.

My thing about this one has been a pain because the owner of it told me it was a 1900.....and I quickly (ish) learned that was wrong. Then I thought it was a 1920...which wasn't right either.

I have spent more time looking at Luger forums and such the past two days and I think that actually did more harm than good. I feel like the more I find out about these the more confused I get.

Someone said it used to be a PO8....I don't know what a PO8 is or what changed to make it no longer a PO8...so that is something to add to the "wonder" I have been stuck in for two straight days.

Its one of those things I liked a lot more before I started working on it.




The German Army adopted the Luger as there standard handgun in 1908. Therefore it was identified as the Pistol-08 or P 08. After it was reworked with a shorter 30 Luger barrel. After the First World, it lost it's military identity. And became a 1920 commercial.




How cool! I completely understand all of that. It is pretty assuring to finally "get" something about these things. Thank you!

Click here to check out my auctions?..I double dog dare you to!!!

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