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 C&R Eligible?
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emsfire
New Member

63 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2018 :  09:10:53 AM  Show Profile
How do I find out if a rifle is C&R eligible? A MAS 36/51 particularly. What’s really the difference between FFL and C&R?

mark christian
Administrator

USA
31973 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2018 :  09:33:16 AM  Show Profile
Here is the full list of Curio and Relic firearms, which includes an explanation of what qualifies a firearm to be a Curio and Relic:


https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/p-5300-11-firearms-curios-or-relics-listpdf-0/download

To be recognized as C&R items, 478.11 specifies that firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

1.Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas of such firearms;


2.Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and


3.Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.


Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list. Therefore, ATF does not generally list firearms in the C&R publication by virtue of their age. However, if you wish for a classification of your particular firearm under categories (b) or (c) above and wish your item to be listed, you may submit the weapon to the Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division (FATD) for a formal classification.



Since all MAS 36 Rifles are older than 50 years of age, they automatically qualify as C&R so long as they remain in their original military configuration.

There are a variety of FFL's, the two most common being Type 01, which is a dealer in firearms other than Destructive devices, and a Type 03, which is a Collector of Curio and Relics. A dealer may deal in firearms of any type (excepting Destructive Devices which carry a separate license), while a collector is just that...a collector of firearms classified as Curio and Relics. A collector may not deal in firearms, he is merely a collector who acquires and disposes of Curio and Relics as a means of enhancing his personal collection. Crossing into what might be considered acting as a dealer is the cause for 99% of the problems collectors face with the BATF.
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MIKE WISKEY
Advanced Member

USA
8833 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2018 :  09:35:43 AM  Show Profile
"the difference between FFL and C&R?" they are both 'FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSES'. there are several 'types' of ffl (01,02,03 ect.) they vary on 'what' you can buy or do with each. the 03 (C&R) is for 'collectors' and applies to any firearm over 50 years old OR on a special 'list' at the ATF. and yes the MAS 36/51 is ok for a C&R purchase.
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rufe-snow
Advanced Member

18236 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2018 :  10:50:09 AM  Show Profile
Please be advised. Some extremely cautious folks, for various reasons. Won't sell or ship a C & R firearm. To a C & R licensee. They will only ship, to a 01 firearms dealer.

Getting angry at these folks. Doesn't do you any good. They are selling their personal property. And can set any terms they want, on the transaction.

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chiefr
Advanced Member

USA
9391 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2018 :  10:52:24 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by rufe-snow

Please be advised. Some extremely cautious folks, for various reasons. Won't sell or ship a C & R firearm. To a C & R licensee. They will only ship, to a 01 firearms dealer.

Getting angry at these folks. Doesn't do you any good. They are selling their personal property. And can set any terms they want, on the transaction.





Yep a second here, and there are many such sellers here on GB.
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nmyers
Advanced Member

15895 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2018 :  11:04:30 AM  Show Profile
But....will GB allow a dealer to be on their FFL Dealer Network if he refuses to accept shipment from a C&R licensee or a non-licensee?

Neal
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gruntled
Advanced Member

10773 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2018 :  3:33:40 PM  Show Profile








Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list. Therefore, ATF does not generally list firearms in the C&R publication by virtue of their
Since all MAS 36 Rifles are older than 50 years of age, they automatically qualify as C&R so long as they remain in their original military configuration.

So does that mean my sporterized 1896 Krag is not c&r?

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Spider7115
Moderator

USA
27843 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2018 :  5:59:10 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by gruntled









Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list. Therefore, ATF does not generally list firearms in the C&R publication by virtue of their
Since all MAS 36 Rifles are older than 50 years of age, they automatically qualify as C&R so long as they remain in their original military configuration.

So does that mean my sporterized 1896 Krag is not c&r?




Your Krag is a Pre-1899 antique, not C&R.

-"SPIDER"

ALLAH KA-BAR!


GunBroker.com Moderator
The Largest Auction Gun Store Online including Pistols, Shotguns, and Rifles

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sandwarrior
Advanced Member

USA
5552 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2018 :  10:36:15 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Spider7115

quote:
Originally posted by gruntled









Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list. Therefore, ATF does not generally list firearms in the C&R publication by virtue of their
Since all MAS 36 Rifles are older than 50 years of age, they automatically qualify as C&R so long as they remain in their original military configuration.

So does that mean my sporterized 1896 Krag is not c&r?




Your Krag is a Pre-1899 antique, not C&R.



I will disagree. Because the "sporterized" happened at some time after 1899, it becomes a firearm. And, because it is not in its original configuration, it is not C&R eligible.

Added: Not that I disagree with you in that it IS pre-1899 and should be antique. It's that I've physically seen the ATF interpret it that way.



Every shot serves a purpose, whether accurate or inaccurate. It will always tell you what you did, and did not do, right. Even if all you have is a fraction of a second to make it, learn from it. So the next one is even better.

Edited by - sandwarrior on 03/15/2018 10:56:05 AM
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Spider7115
Moderator

USA
27843 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2018 :  12:48:39 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by sandwarrior

quote:
Originally posted by Spider7115

quote:
Originally posted by gruntled



Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list. Therefore, ATF does not generally list firearms in the C&R publication by virtue of their
Since all MAS 36 Rifles are older than 50 years of age, they automatically qualify as C&R so long as they remain in their original military configuration.

So does that mean my sporterized 1896 Krag is not c&r?




Your Krag is a Pre-1899 antique, not C&R.



I will disagree. Because the "sporterized" happened at some time after 1899, it becomes a firearm. And, because it is not in its original configuration, it is not C&R eligible.

Added: Not that I disagree with you in that it IS pre-1899 and should be antique. It's that I've physically seen the ATF interpret it that way.


I've seen literally hundreds of Springfield "Trapdoor" rifles cut down into carbines. Are you saying they are no longer antiques, either?

-"SPIDER"

ALLAH KA-BAR!


GunBroker.com Moderator
The Largest Auction Gun Store Online including Pistols, Shotguns, and Rifles

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charliemeyer007
Advanced Member

USA
5789 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2018 :  3:45:43 PM  Show Profile
You are asking if the gubernment makes sense, understands and enforces its rules correctly and fairly; well i have a bridge for sale in...
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Bert H.
Moderator

USA
11424 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2018 :  3:51:59 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by sandwarrior

I will disagree. Because the "sporterized" happened at some time after 1899, it becomes a firearm. And, because it is not in its original configuration, it is not C&R eligible.

Added: Not that I disagree with you in that it IS pre-1899 and should be antique. It's that I've physically seen the ATF interpret it that way.



There is No legal requirement for an "Antique" to remain in its original configuration to remain an Antique. That caveat only applies to military firearms that would otherwise be classified as a C&R. Antique is always Antique unless you turn it into a Machine Gun.


GunBroker.com Moderator

The Largest Auction Gun Store Online including Pistols, Shotguns, and Rifles


Bert H. - http://www.bbhc.org/explore/firearms/firearms-records/

Real Men own and shoot a WINCHESTER Single-Shot!


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