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84Bravo1
Advanced Member

10514 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  2:54:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by bpost

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by ruger41

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/03/daniel-zimmerman/breaking-doj-reclassifies-bump-fire-stocks-machine-guns/

I say hell no. Barely a year in and by fiat gun control is implemented. You might not need or want or even like bumpstocks but this kind of gun control is a dangerous game. Trump also praised the new Florida gun control that Gov Scott signed. So I ask yet again are you guys who praised Trump as some super supporter of the 2nd Amendment are you still giving your support to this pos or are you going to wait to finally wake up and see him for what he is. We must have a POTUS who stands for the Constitution. Hope actually get one in 2020. IMO he is going to lose a bunch of supporters over this. Today he or some other pos politicians ban bumpstocks by fiat and tomorrow it will be your highly accurate hunting rifles because well they are just too dangerous because you can kill people from 1000 yards out.



Although it sounds counter-intuitive, the gridlock that would have resulted from Clinton being elected may have posed a larger hurdle to changes than the situation as it exists right now.

But playing "What if" is a pointless endeavor, as no one will ever know.



THANK GOD ABOVE!



We'll see how thankful everybody is for the current incumbent when it is all said and done.

I do not think it is a grace.






Of the two viable choices at the end, who would you have preferred?


That's an easy one for me.




It was easy for me, as well.

Neither.

You got what you wanted.

Hopefully, you will be just as happy when it is all over.






While I appreciate the honesty in your reply, not voting for either, is akin to throwing up your hands and saying "whatever."

That does not work for me. One of the two were going to get elected.

I know who I did NOT want to get elected.


Gets back to the Lesser of Two Evils, but if that is the choice I am left with, I am going to choose the Lesser of Two Evils.



No, it is not the same thing as throwing up one's hands, if that is how one is led.

It is not safe to go against conscience.

And you are quite possibly creating and living in the fallacy of the false dichotomy.

There is always a way to go, although it may be a way that you neither desire nor comprehend.






The "Dichotomy" of my choices was pretty clear.

Do I want Him elected, or Her?

Pretty simple in the end to me really.

No way in hell was it going to be Her. (If I had anything to say about it.)

Not voting, was Not an option.

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Barzillia
Advanced Member

27587 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  4:24:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by bpost

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by ruger41

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/03/daniel-zimmerman/breaking-doj-reclassifies-bump-fire-stocks-machine-guns/

I say hell no. Barely a year in and by fiat gun control is implemented. You might not need or want or even like bumpstocks but this kind of gun control is a dangerous game. Trump also praised the new Florida gun control that Gov Scott signed. So I ask yet again are you guys who praised Trump as some super supporter of the 2nd Amendment are you still giving your support to this pos or are you going to wait to finally wake up and see him for what he is. We must have a POTUS who stands for the Constitution. Hope actually get one in 2020. IMO he is going to lose a bunch of supporters over this. Today he or some other pos politicians ban bumpstocks by fiat and tomorrow it will be your highly accurate hunting rifles because well they are just too dangerous because you can kill people from 1000 yards out.



Although it sounds counter-intuitive, the gridlock that would have resulted from Clinton being elected may have posed a larger hurdle to changes than the situation as it exists right now.

But playing "What if" is a pointless endeavor, as no one will ever know.



THANK GOD ABOVE!



We'll see how thankful everybody is for the current incumbent when it is all said and done.

I do not think it is a grace.






Of the two viable choices at the end, who would you have preferred?


That's an easy one for me.




It was easy for me, as well.

Neither.

You got what you wanted.

Hopefully, you will be just as happy when it is all over.






While I appreciate the honesty in your reply, not voting for either, is akin to throwing up your hands and saying "whatever."

That does not work for me. One of the two were going to get elected.

I know who I did NOT want to get elected.


Gets back to the Lesser of Two Evils, but if that is the choice I am left with, I am going to choose the Lesser of Two Evils.



No, it is not the same thing as throwing up one's hands, if that is how one is led.

It is not safe to go against conscience.

And you are quite possibly creating and living in the fallacy of the false dichotomy.

There is always a way to go, although it may be a way that you neither desire nor comprehend.






The "Dichotomy" of my choices was pretty clear.

Do I want Him elected, or Her?

Pretty simple in the end to me really.

No way in hell was it going to be Her. (If I had anything to say about it.)

Not voting, was Not an option.






Of course it was.

Just not one you chose.

Much like the old values problem of people in a lifeboat with a limited amount of water or whatever you want. You know the current will take you to safe land in eight days, but you only have enough water for three days if everyone shares.

The question is usually given with a brief bio of those in the boat, and the problem is who do you choose to throw out to ensure the survival of the rest ?

A choice among the least of evils ???


"Most people fancy themselves innocent of those crimes of which they cannot be convicted." Seneca

"Hope has two children: anger, and courage." Augustine, Confessions

Der Verzagten aber und Ungläubigen und Greulichen und Totschläger und Hurer und Zauberer und Abgöttischen und aller Lügner, deren Teil wird sein in dem Pfuhl, der mit Feuer und Schwefel brennt; das ist der andere Tod.


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wpageabc
Advanced Member

USA
7767 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  4:50:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, still MAGA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u99Q7pNAjvg
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mag00
Advanced Member

4208 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  5:21:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by bpost

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by ruger41

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/03/daniel-zimmerman/breaking-doj-reclassifies-bump-fire-stocks-machine-guns/

I say hell no. Barely a year in and by fiat gun control is implemented. You might not need or want or even like bumpstocks but this kind of gun control is a dangerous game. Trump also praised the new Florida gun control that Gov Scott signed. So I ask yet again are you guys who praised Trump as some super supporter of the 2nd Amendment are you still giving your support to this pos or are you going to wait to finally wake up and see him for what he is. We must have a POTUS who stands for the Constitution. Hope actually get one in 2020. IMO he is going to lose a bunch of supporters over this. Today he or some other pos politicians ban bumpstocks by fiat and tomorrow it will be your highly accurate hunting rifles because well they are just too dangerous because you can kill people from 1000 yards out.



Although it sounds counter-intuitive, the gridlock that would have resulted from Clinton being elected may have posed a larger hurdle to changes than the situation as it exists right now.

But playing "What if" is a pointless endeavor, as no one will ever know.



THANK GOD ABOVE!



We'll see how thankful everybody is for the current incumbent when it is all said and done.

I do not think it is a grace.






Of the two viable choices at the end, who would you have preferred?


That's an easy one for me.




It was easy for me, as well.

Neither.

You got what you wanted.

Hopefully, you will be just as happy when it is all over.






While I appreciate the honesty in your reply, not voting for either, is akin to throwing up your hands and saying "whatever."

That does not work for me. One of the two were going to get elected.

I know who I did NOT want to get elected.


Gets back to the Lesser of Two Evils, but if that is the choice I am left with, I am going to choose the Lesser of Two Evils.



No, it is not the same thing as throwing up one's hands, if that is how one is led.

It is not safe to go against conscience.

And you are quite possibly creating and living in the fallacy of the false dichotomy.

There is always a way to go, although it may be a way that you neither desire nor comprehend.






The "Dichotomy" of my choices was pretty clear.

Do I want Him elected, or Her?

Pretty simple in the end to me really.

No way in hell was it going to be Her. (If I had anything to say about it.)

Not voting, was Not an option.





This problem or issue is that it is false choices. You were offered fish or chicken. The steak is what I want. Thus, I must seek it out, and not let the handlers serve up a second rate meal.

And it the case of hillary vs donald it was do you want paint thinner or vinegar with that dinner. Truly not good choices either way.

So why is everyone so afraid to open door #3?

"My guns aren't worth dying for, but my freedoms are". guns-n-painthorses 3-30-2018


If anything can go right, it will go right and at the best possible time.

Edited by - mag00 on 03/11/2018 5:24:04 PM
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ruger41
Advanced Member

USA
11843 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  5:28:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We’ve been betrayed enough by Republicans signing onto antigun legislation. Reagan with that bs FOPA with the Hughes Amendment attached to it, Gov Schwarzenegger lied to gun owners too and now 45 doing it by sidestepping Congress. We were all up in arms when Obama Rex signed bs executive orders, why then do Republicans who do it get a pass...especially when what they are doing is directly infringing on the 2nd Amendment? We have enough problems when these ahole Democrats do it without getting stabbed in the back by the Republicans(RINO’s).
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medic07
Advanced Member

USA
5080 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  8:13:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Let me set the stage before I say what I am about to.
In the run up to the election I was hoping a candidate would come out that was more conservative and constitutionally inclined than either H Clinton or Trump (or Cruz). Do I ever expect to find a candidate that matches my points 100%? No.
When no one emerged, I made the choice to vote for Trump despite his flaws because he was not Clinton.

I had and still have misgivings about him. He is a business politician and will play both sides of the game to achieve whatever end suits him.

Has he done some good things? Yes

Is this end run around the Constitution a good thing? NO

We had problems (and rightfully so) when Obama did these things and we should have a problem with Trump doing this. Those who voted for him should be making it clear to him they do not approve of this tactic of outlawing an item via EO.

As has been said, we should never follow any leader blindly. It is our duty to criticize where we see criticism is required.

I mean to kill you in one minute, Ned. Or see you hanged in Fort Smith at Judge Parker's convenience. Which'll it be?
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Marc1301
Advanced Member

USA
34234 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  9:30:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by medic07

Let me set the stage before I say what I am about to.
In the run up to the election I was hoping a candidate would come out that was more conservative and constitutionally inclined than either H Clinton or Trump (or Cruz). Do I ever expect to find a candidate that matches my points 100%? No.
When no one emerged, I made the choice to vote for Trump despite his flaws because he was not Clinton.

I had and still have misgivings about him. He is a business politician and will play both sides of the game to achieve whatever end suits him.

Has he done some good things? Yes

Is this end run around the Constitution a good thing? NO

We had problems (and rightfully so) when Obama did these things and we should have a problem with Trump doing this. Those who voted for him should be making it clear to him they do not approve of this tactic of outlawing an item via EO.

As has been said, we should never follow any leader blindly. It is our duty to criticize where we see criticism is required.


+1000


"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

"Beam me up Scotty. There's no intelligent life down here." William Shatner
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droptop
Advanced Member

USA
7499 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2018 :  10:08:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Everyone cries "The Sky is Falling" before anything happens. Trump has backed of the age restrictions and forwarded some items to Betsy DeVos to review, where they will be "reviewed" for who knows how long.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/11/trump-wh-expected-to-support-raising-minimum-age-to-buy-long-guns.html

Not much Trump can do about STATE laws being passed but the NRA is filing suit in Florida.

Nothing has happened to federal laws but the BATF is about ot or has 'regulated bump stocks out of existence, but that was a foregone conclusion because of the Las Vegas massacre. The BATF NOT ruling against bump stocks, way back then was like the BATF saying "give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves."



Think Trump is doing an excellent job on all fronts. Everyone will have a chance to "pick" his replacement in 2020,, but that pick will be like "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory".
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Mr. Perfect
Advanced Member

52244 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2018 :  11:36:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Trump has lost my present and future support. And I predicted he would though I hoped he would not.

"When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace." -Jesus

"Also he [David] bade them teach the children of Judah [the use of] the bow" -Samuel

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Some will die in hot pursuit and fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit while sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

G1
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SCOUT5
Advanced Member

12655 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2018 :  5:57:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In my house the constitution, which includes the bill of rights, is sacred. If President Trump wishes to infringe on them I will be done with him. If the RNC supports said infringements I will be done with republicans as a whole.

It is not complicated and it doesn't matter who would have done worse. He gets graded on what he does. I am not going to give up my right hand and be happy about it because someone else didn't take my whole arm.
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JamesRK
Advanced Member

USA
26305 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2018 :  12:32:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Don McManus

We still need to hold Trump accountable to the Constitution. Do you not agree?

Absolutely. Too many times I've seen the politicians fail to change the Constitution only to have six old men in black dresses and three little old ladies change the meaning of what the document says or in some cases read things that simply aren't there. That's how we won our "Constitutional Right" to murder babies, and as much as I love my privacy, it simply isn't guaranteed in the Constitution.

The court can drastically change the Constitution without an amendment.

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mjrfd99
Advanced Member

USA
3579 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2018 :  05:37:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So those here disappointed with the Don will vote for warren or ellison next election? Maybe down low baby booker?

Cut your nose to spite your face much?
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Barzillia
Advanced Member

27587 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2018 :  06:16:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The incumbent is not guaranteed the nomination.

"Most people fancy themselves innocent of those crimes of which they cannot be convicted." Seneca

"Hope has two children: anger, and courage." Augustine, Confessions

Der Verzagten aber und Ungläubigen und Greulichen und Totschläger und Hurer und Zauberer und Abgöttischen und aller Lügner, deren Teil wird sein in dem Pfuhl, der mit Feuer und Schwefel brennt; das ist der andere Tod.


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Grasshopper
Advanced Member

12831 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2018 :  08:06:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

The incumbent is not guaranteed the nomination.



Thanks for the insight. Now is India this time of year? Does the hag stink even more in the humid weather or does she just melt in with all the other women over there? With all their right and all.
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Don McManus
Advanced Member

USA
26398 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2018 :  08:39:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arby

Quote from Don MacManus


As I said the Supreme Court would have been slanted to the left of Nuntsy P. Swill would have appointed and got them through, plus Ginsberg would have stepped down, imo and then the end as we know it. Looking into the crystal ball, yes it would have happened.


quote:


We can play change the subject if you like, it I still implore you to view Trump’s actions with an open mind. Even with Gorsuch (sp?), this court will support a gun restriction legislation.

We still need to hold Trump accountable to the Constitution. Do you not agree?


quote:

*********************************************************************

Don, we still do not know what the current Supreme Court will or will not support, especially when it comes to gun legislation.

Hopefully the Court will faithfully stick to it's Constitutional obligation which is to interpret the laws as written with regard to a law's Constitutionality. I firmly believe that Trump's selection of Neil Gorsuch, and subsequent confirmation, will insure this for the foreseeable future.

I view all politician's, especially the POTUS' actions, with an open mind, and at 84 years of age I have quite a bit of experience to call up on for comparisons.

I firmly believe that Trump is doing a lot better job of sticking to the Constitution of the United States than any the last three POTUS did, especially Obama...WE only have our single vote to hold the POTUS accountable to the Constitution...It is The Supreme Court's responsibility/duty to hold the POTUS and Congress accountable to the Constitution...BTW, I view my self as a strict Constitutionalist which is defined as:

Constitutionalism is descriptive of a complicated concept, deeply embedded in historical experience, which subjects the officials who exercise governmental powers to the limitations of a higher law. Constitutionalism proclaims the desirability of the rule of law as opposed to rule by the arbitrary judgment or mere fiat of public officials .

My question to you is, Do you believe that the Second Amendment should be a blanket order to provide any one and everyone the right to possess a fire arm without restriction?...If so, why?




I do believe that because of the wording in the Amendment.

The fact of the matter today is that our criminal justice system has made the wording of the Amendment somewhat untenable because we do not keep dangerous individuals isolated from the population.

We have a number of options.

The current course is to grant governments the power to infringe upon the rights of all of us 'for our own protection' because those that should be denied access to firearms are allowed to walk amongst us. This may be necessary, but it allows for those governments to establish virtually unlimited restrictions in order to achieve this goal. As our society becomes further removed from the concept of true individual freedom and liberty and as the majority becomes further removed from the individual use and handling of firearms, these restrictions become more and more intrusive because that majority no longer understands why the 2nd Amendment exists.

IMO, the only way this current path can continue in concert with the Constitution is an amendment that establishes limits upon government infringement of the existing 2nd Amendment.

A second option is to recognize that an American citizen who is not physically under the control of government is rightfully granted all rights available to all citizens. There will be dangerous individuals who can legally possess firearms who cannot do so today, but we must ask ourselves if the current illegality of ownership is really an effective deterrent. My belief is that the current system denies those that truly want to rejoin society access, and is of limited deterrent to those that would continue upon the path that lead to their incarceration in the first place.

I see only two legitimate options that respect the Constitution.

The first is to recognize that the 2nd Amendment as written is absolute and prohibits governments from infringing upon the rights of the individual to possess firearms. I do not believe that this purist approach will significantly increase firearms related crime for the reasons stated above. History has shown us that the fact that someone is not legally able to own a firearm does not stop them from owning one.

The second is to amend the 2nd Amendment to include specific limitations upon government as to regulation and restriction. While this will no doubt establish regulations and restrictions with which I disagree, it will end the existing situation whereby other than an absolute ban on all firearms, government power to regulate and restrict are virtually unlimited.

'Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.'
Brad Steele.


'The Constitution that was actually enacted and formally amended creates islands of government powers in a sea of liberty. The judicially redacted constitution creates islands of liberty rights in a sea of governmental powers.'
Randy E. Barnett


CA #3


Edited by - Don McManus on 03/14/2018 08:42:19 AM
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Don McManus
Advanced Member

USA
26398 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2018 :  08:49:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1
The "Dichotomy" of my choices was pretty clear.

Do I want Him elected, or Her?

Pretty simple in the end to me really.

No way in hell was it going to be Her. (If I had anything to say about it.)

Not voting, was Not an option.




You still refuse to address the issue.

I personally prefer Trump to Clinton as well, but that is not the issue in this thread.

The issue in this thread is should we hold Trump accountable to the oath he took, or do we give him a pass because he is better than Clinton?

Disagreeing with specific policy is not a statement of preference of Clinton over Trump, it is simply a statement that a President should protect and the defend the Constitution.

There is not need to twist this into a him vs. her debate. If we refuse to call him on his mistakes he will continue to make them.



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84Bravo1
Advanced Member

10514 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2018 :  5:27:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Don McManus

quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1
The "Dichotomy" of my choices was pretty clear.

Do I want Him elected, or Her?

Pretty simple in the end to me really.

No way in hell was it going to be Her. (If I had anything to say about it.)

Not voting, was Not an option.




You still refuse to address the issue.

I personally prefer Trump to Clinton as well, but that is not the issue in this thread.

The issue in this thread is should we hold Trump accountable to the oath he took, or do we give him a pass because he is better than Clinton?

Disagreeing with specific policy is not a statement of preference of Clinton over Trump, it is simply a statement that a President should protect and the defend the Constitution.

There is not need to twist this into a him vs. her debate. If we refuse to call him on his mistakes he will continue to make them.










Of course, I think he needs to be (and will be,) "held accountable," for his stances and actions in regards to the Constitution. I'm pretty sure he is not ignorant of that fact as well.

One and done, or a two timer, is going to be completely on him.

We will see what transpires.
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jerrywh818
Senior Member

USA
2298 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2018 :  10:25:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is there an exception to every rule? Should there be some resurrections on gun ownership or none at all. Should there be any limitations on the type of arms we can keep and bare?

ant dancer
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mjrfd99
Advanced Member

USA
3579 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2018 :  05:55:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oaths, Laws, Rules.
Pick and choose the ones you like and disobey those you don't. Just like the Mayor of dnc s***hole sanctuary Oakland.

FTL
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Horse Plains Drifter
Advanced Member

Botswana
31456 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2018 :  09:10:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jerrywh818

Is there an exception to every rule? Should there be some resurrections on gun ownership or none at all. Should there be any limitations on the type of arms we can keep and bare?

Should there be some resurrections on gun ownership or none at all

Yes, people in jail/prison should not have guns.



Should there be any limitations on the type of arms we can keep and bare?
No.


81st FA BN WWII...Thanks Dad

CA #8....3%



Edited by - Horse Plains Drifter on 03/15/2018 09:10:44 AM
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gunnut505
Advanced Member

USA
10233 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2018 :  09:23:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Unfamiliar with the part in the Second Amendment that defends the right to install an aftermarket accessory that interferes with accuracy & wastes ammo.
NFA '34 actually ALLOWS ownership and use of registered and taxed "machine guns", and the further restrictions simply state that post-May '86 guns are barred from manufacture, import and modification or addition of "Auto Sears".

84 years is no indication of education, just chronological existence.

"Qui non est hodie cras minus aptus erit" --OVID

"It never hurts to help!"--EEEK the Cat
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Mr. Perfect
Advanced Member

52244 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2018 :  11:17:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter

quote:
Originally posted by jerrywh818

Is there an exception to every rule? Should there be some resurrections on gun ownership or none at all. Should there be any limitations on the type of arms we can keep and bare?

Should there be some resurrections on gun ownership or none at all

Yes, people in jail/prison should not have guns.



Should there be any limitations on the type of arms we can keep and bare?
No.

Agreed.

"When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace." -Jesus

"Also he [David] bade them teach the children of Judah [the use of] the bow" -Samuel

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Some will die in hot pursuit and fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit while sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

G1
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Horse Plains Drifter
Advanced Member

Botswana
31456 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2018 :  12:30:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gunnut505

Unfamiliar with the part in the Second Amendment that defends the right to install an aftermarket accessory that interferes with accuracy & wastes ammo.

It's right after the part that states that guns must remain in original factory configuration, and can't be modified in any way. No add-on peep sights, scopes, no nuthin'. Them was a bunch of criminals that converted their flintlocks over to percussion.


81st FA BN WWII...Thanks Dad

CA #8....3%


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jerrywh818
Senior Member

USA
2298 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2018 :  1:20:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Horse plains drifter and MR. Perfect.
Why not a nuclear bomb then? Or nerve gas?

ant dancer
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Mr. Perfect
Advanced Member

52244 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2018 :  1:29:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jerrywh818

Horse plains drifter and MR. Perfect.
Why not a nuclear bomb then? Or nerve gas?

Why conflate the issue to the nonsensical extreme of irrelevancy?

"When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace." -Jesus

"Also he [David] bade them teach the children of Judah [the use of] the bow" -Samuel

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Some will die in hot pursuit and fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit while sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

G1
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Mr. Perfect
Advanced Member

52244 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2018 :  1:32:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter

quote:
Originally posted by gunnut505

Unfamiliar with the part in the Second Amendment that defends the right to install an aftermarket accessory that interferes with accuracy & wastes ammo.

It's right after the part that states that guns must remain in original factory configuration, and can't be modified in any way. No add-on peep sights, scopes, no nuthin'. Them was a bunch of criminals that converted their flintlocks over to percussion.

Don't you remember HPD? The colonists, having just waged and won a war of independence from a tyrannical ruler's army, were now up against a new foe: deer. They were so concerned the local deer population was going to usurp their newly obtained freedom they hastily drafted Amendment 2, to protect hunting and ensure no deer would ever be able to be their master. You can read all about the history behind amendment 2 in the anti-federalexpressist papers. Quite the debate. Some feared it would be too burdensome on the deer.

"When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace." -Jesus

"Also he [David] bade them teach the children of Judah [the use of] the bow" -Samuel

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Some will die in hot pursuit and fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit while sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

G1
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jerrywh818
Senior Member

USA
2298 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2018 :  9:17:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Perfect

quote:
Originally posted by jerrywh818

Horse plains drifter and MR. Perfect.
Why not a nuclear bomb then? Or nerve gas?

Why conflate the issue to the nonsensical extreme of irrelevancy?


The question is not irrelevant. It is meant to point out the fact that there must be some sensible limitations. The question therefore is where is the line to be drawn.

ant dancer
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SCOUT5
Advanced Member

12655 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2018 :  11:44:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jerrywh818

Horse plains drifter and MR. Perfect.
Why not a nuclear bomb then? Or nerve gas?



The only use of nuclear bombs against a civilian population was performed by the US government. Yet the bombs killed many times less people then Hitler or Mao did after they disarmed the people. Not to mention many other tyrannical regimes that killed many times what the bombs did.

It is much more dangerous for the population to disarm them then it would be to allow them to have nuclear weapons.

BTW, the largest , mass killing of unarmed civilians on US soil was also performed by the US government.

Yet you want use to give up firepower and place all trust in the US government.

Edited by - SCOUT5 on 03/15/2018 11:46:54 PM
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JamesRK
Advanced Member

USA
26305 Posts

Posted - 03/16/2018 :  12:58:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm generally considered to be a fool by many because I believe anyone who is determined by the powers that be to have enough self control to walk freely in society should have ALL their Constitutional RIGHTS.

I'll tell you again how I came to that conclusion. Long, long ago (in human terms) and right damn here (in geographical terms) a decision was made that it was costing too much to keep the people locked up who needed to be locked up or dead. So we opened the doors to the mental hospitals and prisons to save money with the predictable result of huge increases in cost.

There was once a challenge to the death penalty on the grounds that cruel or unusual punishment is forbidden by the Constitution. Evidently the people who brought the suit read the Constitution the same way they read the Bible. What the Constitution actually says is:

AMENDMENT VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

If we simply stopped fiddly farting around and put those who should be six feet under six feet under and those hopelessly insane in LOCKED mental hospitals we would have a lot fewer problems with free people exercising the rights of free people. We could use some of the left over money to fix some of the potholes in Danville and South Boston.

Maybe if you'll think about this for a minute you'll decide I'm just a retard and not necessarily a fool.

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35 Whelen
Advanced Member

USA
14122 Posts

Posted - 03/16/2018 :  01:41:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jerrywh818

quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Perfect

quote:
Originally posted by jerrywh818

Horse plains drifter and MR. Perfect.
Why not a nuclear bomb then? Or nerve gas?

Why conflate the issue to the nonsensical extreme of irrelevancy?


The question is not irrelevant. It is meant to point out the fact that there must be some sensible limitations. The question therefore is where is the line to be drawn.




How many "sensible limitations" are you expecting, beyond the multiple thousands of gun laws and restrictions already in place across the U.S. as a whole? They go from the national/federal level down as far as the small town level. There have been several major lines already drawn, and I'm sure you are familiar with the dates.

The only people that believe lines drawn on the 2nd Amendment work are people that snort lines.
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jerrywh818
Senior Member

USA
2298 Posts

Posted - 03/16/2018 :  11:10:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Scout5
Please tell me when I said I wanted us to give up power and place our trust in Government. I probably have less trust in government than you do. ATF came after me for things I said on the web and threatened to take my license. I been fighting the Gov. for years. I simply asked a question.
As for the rest of your statement I agree 100%.
JamesRK. Right on.
The problem is we have these nuts running around loose.
What is the reason for that?

ant dancer
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Mr. Perfect
Advanced Member

52244 Posts

Posted - 03/16/2018 :  11:57:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jerrywh818

quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Perfect

quote:
Originally posted by jerrywh818

Horse plains drifter and MR. Perfect.
Why not a nuclear bomb then? Or nerve gas?

Why conflate the issue to the nonsensical extreme of irrelevancy?


The question is not irrelevant. It is meant to point out the fact that there must be some sensible limitations. The question therefore is where is the line to be drawn.

The discussion is around arms. If you want to enter into reasonable discussion about the limits that should be placed on arms, limit your question to them. If you want to talk about things that aren't arms fine, we can discuss that, but continuing to conflate the arms discussion to other topics does not advance the discussion at hand.

"When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace." -Jesus

"Also he [David] bade them teach the children of Judah [the use of] the bow" -Samuel

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Some will die in hot pursuit and fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit while sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

G1
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35 Whelen
Advanced Member

USA
14122 Posts

Posted - 03/16/2018 :  5:20:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 35 Whelen

quote:
Originally posted by jerrywh818

quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Perfect

quote:
Originally posted by jerrywh818

Horse plains drifter and MR. Perfect.
Why not a nuclear bomb then? Or nerve gas?

Why conflate the issue to the nonsensical extreme of irrelevancy?


The question is not irrelevant. It is meant to point out the fact that there must be some sensible limitations. The question therefore is where is the line to be drawn.




How many "sensible limitations" are you expecting, beyond the multiple thousands of gun laws and restrictions already in place across the U.S. as a whole? They go from the national/federal level down as far as the small town level. There have been several major lines already drawn, and I'm sure you are familiar with the dates.

The only people that believe lines drawn on the 2nd Amendment work are people that snort lines.




As expected, crickets....
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SCOUT5
Advanced Member

12655 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2018 :  09:29:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jerrywh818

Scout5
Please tell me when I said I wanted us to give up power and place our trust in Government. I probably have less trust in government than you do. ATF came after me for things I said on the web and threatened to take my license. I been fighting the Gov. for years. I simply asked a question.
As for the rest of your statement I agree 100%.
JamesRK. Right on.
The problem is we have these nuts running around loose.
What is the reason for that?




While power in reality is not static for this example let's think of it that way and say distribution of power is a zero sum game.

The more power one side (the government) has the less power the other side (the people) has. When you willingly cede power to the other side, thus giving the other side more control over your life, you must, by default, trust them more than yourself.

The government has been taking power from the people for 200 years. No way am I going to cede it willingly. The system is already out of balance. Decreasing the firepower and defenses of the people only makes it more so. We may have already passed the tipping point, either way it makes no sense to move it further in the governments favor. Give government to much power and inevitably a tyrannical regime will wield it.
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Navybat
Advanced Member

USA
7040 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2018 :  09:43:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What I object to is anyone calling the President a pos. Am I so arrogant that I think the President will do what I want 100% of the time?

No. I realize he is human and faced with the realities of governing a huge, bloated, corrupt government. So I will cut him some slack.

The economy is booming, unemployment is down, we are more respected around the world, and I can buy any firearm I want if I have the money. And I have more money in my pocket now to do so if I choose.

MAGA!

FLY NAVY!
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Barzillia
Advanced Member

27587 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2018 :  09:56:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Still winning ?

I guess that depends on what you think winning is.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-15/russian-hackers-attacking-u-s-power-grid-aviation-fbi-warns


And from https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/us/politics/russia-cyberattacks.html

"Lt. Gen. Paul Nakasone, who has been nominated as director of the National Security Agency and commander of United States Cyber Command, the military’s cyberunit, said during his Senate confirmation hearing this month that countries attacking the United States so far have little to worry about.

“I would say right now they do not think much will happen to them,” General Nakasone said. He later added, “They don’t fear us.”

"Most people fancy themselves innocent of those crimes of which they cannot be convicted." Seneca

"Hope has two children: anger, and courage." Augustine, Confessions

Der Verzagten aber und Ungläubigen und Greulichen und Totschläger und Hurer und Zauberer und Abgöttischen und aller Lügner, deren Teil wird sein in dem Pfuhl, der mit Feuer und Schwefel brennt; das ist der andere Tod.



Edited by - Barzillia on 03/18/2018 09:59:19 AM
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84Bravo1
Advanced Member

10514 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2018 :  10:09:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

Still winning ?

I guess that depends on what you think winning is.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-15/russian-hackers-attacking-u-s-power-grid-aviation-fbi-warns


And from https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/us/politics/russia-cyberattacks.html

"Lt. Gen. Paul Nakasone, who has been nominated as director of the National Security Agency and commander of United States Cyber Command, the military’s cyberunit, said during his Senate confirmation hearing this month that countries attacking the United States so far have little to worry about.

“I would say right now they do not think much will happen to them,” General Nakasone said. He later added, “They don’t fear us.”





And I would bet that will change PDQ.

It takes time to implement and field an over all strategy and Defense. I believe that is happening currently. I do NOT believe that has been happening for the past several Administrations. It takes some time to get back up to speed, after years of neglect.

YVMD.

Edited by - 84Bravo1 on 03/18/2018 10:11:25 AM
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Barzillia
Advanced Member

27587 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2018 :  10:24:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

Still winning ?

I guess that depends on what you think winning is.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-15/russian-hackers-attacking-u-s-power-grid-aviation-fbi-warns


And from https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/us/politics/russia-cyberattacks.html

"Lt. Gen. Paul Nakasone, who has been nominated as director of the National Security Agency and commander of United States Cyber Command, the military’s cyberunit, said during his Senate confirmation hearing this month that countries attacking the United States so far have little to worry about.

“I would say right now they do not think much will happen to them,” General Nakasone said. He later added, “They don’t fear us.”





And I would bet that will change PDQ.

It takes time to implement and field an over all strategy and Defense. I believe that is happening currently. I do NOT believe that has been happening for the past several Administrations. It takes some time to get back up to speed, after years of neglect.

YVMD.



You are free to think what you want will happen in the future.

But I see no reasonable source for that hope, so far.

I read somewhere that POTUS has undertaken more effort to sanction a pornstar, than he has has for Putin.

Not sure that is not entirely accurate.

"Most people fancy themselves innocent of those crimes of which they cannot be convicted." Seneca

"Hope has two children: anger, and courage." Augustine, Confessions

Der Verzagten aber und Ungläubigen und Greulichen und Totschläger und Hurer und Zauberer und Abgöttischen und aller Lügner, deren Teil wird sein in dem Pfuhl, der mit Feuer und Schwefel brennt; das ist der andere Tod.


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Sam06
Advanced Member

14859 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2018 :  10:36:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chiefr

quote:
Originally posted by kimi

I'm certainly going to back him over the democratic alternatives, all of whom are my eternal enemies.





Agree with Kimi.

Unless some of you have actually sat in DEMOCRAT party strategic planning meetings and focus groups and actually listened to goals and the doctrine of where the party wants us to be as a nation, you are clueless as to just how far left the party has progressed. People who are not familiar with DEMOCRAT party goals are in for a shock.


Time restraints prevent a long list but as far as guns, the DEMOCRAT party does not want anyone other than police and military to own one.
They want bans, mandatory turn ins and if necessary; government seizure. There is absolutely no compromise on guns. A private citizen possessing a gun would be a class II felony: Up to 60 years in prison.


Other goals include such radical changes to the Bill of Rights and the US Constitution. Changes that expand the power and scope of federal government and preserve power. An end to state sovereignty. universal pay, open borders, an end capitalism are other things you can expect.



That is the day I become a terrorist

And no we are not still winning. I am a no compromise person when it comes to 2a. I don't have a bump stock and I don't want one. I even think they are stupid and just waste ammo but they should not be illegal. They do not turn a gun into a MG and by definition should be fine to own and use.

RLTW

Proud white heteronormative cis-male member of the Kyriarchy


Liberalism: The haunting feeling that someone, somewhere, might be having a good time.

Edited by - Sam06 on 03/18/2018 10:45:29 AM
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84Bravo1
Advanced Member

10514 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2018 :  11:14:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

Still winning ?

I guess that depends on what you think winning is.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-15/russian-hackers-attacking-u-s-power-grid-aviation-fbi-warns


And from https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/us/politics/russia-cyberattacks.html

"Lt. Gen. Paul Nakasone, who has been nominated as director of the National Security Agency and commander of United States Cyber Command, the military’s cyberunit, said during his Senate confirmation hearing this month that countries attacking the United States so far have little to worry about.

“I would say right now they do not think much will happen to them,” General Nakasone said. He later added, “They don’t fear us.”





And I would bet that will change PDQ.

It takes time to implement and field an over all strategy and Defense. I believe that is happening currently. I do NOT believe that has been happening for the past several Administrations. It takes some time to get back up to speed, after years of neglect.

YVMD.



You are free to think what you want will happen in the future.

But I see no reasonable source for that hope, so far.

I read somewhere that POTUS has undertaken more effort to sanction a pornstar, than he has has for Putin.

Not sure that is not entirely accurate.






I on the other hand see a "reasonable source of hope." That particular distinction, is where we differ.

You have previously stated (If I understood you correctly.) That you did not vote in the General Election. Correct?

If so, you should have no (valid) complaint as to what is transpiring.
You can not possibly think that Hillary would be doing better. I personally shudder to think, where we would be at this point. (Re.) Her pathetic tenure as SOS. Her pathetic "reset button," Bengahzi, Her Personal Computer Server, Etc etc etc. I could go on ad nauseam, But why beat a dead horse. Most of us get it.

I stand by my previous post, "throwing your hands up, and saying whatever is not an option." At least that is not a viable option to me, and Thank God, it was not enough of a viable option to enough of us, to overturn the only other option available to us, at that time.


I have hope. I am sorry you do not. Perhaps you should have Voted.
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Barzillia
Advanced Member

27587 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2018 :  11:45:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

Still winning ?

I guess that depends on what you think winning is.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-15/russian-hackers-attacking-u-s-power-grid-aviation-fbi-warns


And from https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/us/politics/russia-cyberattacks.html

"Lt. Gen. Paul Nakasone, who has been nominated as director of the National Security Agency and commander of United States Cyber Command, the military’s cyberunit, said during his Senate confirmation hearing this month that countries attacking the United States so far have little to worry about.

“I would say right now they do not think much will happen to them,” General Nakasone said. He later added, “They don’t fear us.”





And I would bet that will change PDQ.

It takes time to implement and field an over all strategy and Defense. I believe that is happening currently. I do NOT believe that has been happening for the past several Administrations. It takes some time to get back up to speed, after years of neglect.

YVMD.



You are free to think what you want will happen in the future.

But I see no reasonable source for that hope, so far.

I read somewhere that POTUS has undertaken more effort to sanction a pornstar, than he has has for Putin.

Not sure that is not entirely accurate.






I on the other hand see a "reasonable source of hope." That particular distinction, is where we differ.

Certainly one of the differences. I also note that you can give no source for that hope.

You have previously stated (If I understood you correctly.) That you did not vote in the General Election. Correct?

Not exactly. I said that I did not vote for president, there was certainly far more on the ballot besides that. I also gave my reason for declining that particular decision, and that was as a matter of conscience.

If so, you should have no (valid) complaint as to what is transpiring.

That's absurd. Think about what you are saying. Since when did exercise of the first amendment to freedom of religion lead to a loss of freedom of speech ?


You can not possibly think that Hillary would be doing better. I personally shudder to think, where we would be at this point. (Re.) Her pathetic tenure as SOS. Her pathetic "reset button," Bengahzi, Her Personal Computer Server, Etc etc etc. I could go on ad nauseam, But why beat a dead horse. Most of us get it.

I could not care less what you want to list as the failings of Hillary Clinton. I referred to the current system as a kakistocrcy several times. To be honest, explaining this to you over and over again is getting tiresome. I think it is foolish for youto take such a short sighted outlook at this point as to claim to know what the outcome of this presidency will actually be.


I stand by my previous post, "throwing your hands up, and saying whatever is not an option." At least that is not a viable option to me, and Thank God, it was not enough of a viable option to enough of us, to overturn the only other option available to us, at that time.

Following your conscience is not throwing your hands up and saying whatever. It is discipleship. If you do not understand that, then there is the real difference between us.


I have hope. I am sorry you do not. Perhaps you should have Voted.

Oh, I have hope. Just not the same one you apparently have.

Another difference is that I have a real reason for that hope.



"Most people fancy themselves innocent of those crimes of which they cannot be convicted." Seneca

"Hope has two children: anger, and courage." Augustine, Confessions

Der Verzagten aber und Ungläubigen und Greulichen und Totschläger und Hurer und Zauberer und Abgöttischen und aller Lügner, deren Teil wird sein in dem Pfuhl, der mit Feuer und Schwefel brennt; das ist der andere Tod.



Edited by - Barzillia on 03/18/2018 11:45:35 AM
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84Bravo1
Advanced Member

10514 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2018 :  11:59:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

Still winning ?

I guess that depends on what you think winning is.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-15/russian-hackers-attacking-u-s-power-grid-aviation-fbi-warns


And from https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/us/politics/russia-cyberattacks.html

"Lt. Gen. Paul Nakasone, who has been nominated as director of the National Security Agency and commander of United States Cyber Command, the military’s cyberunit, said during his Senate confirmation hearing this month that countries attacking the United States so far have little to worry about.

“I would say right now they do not think much will happen to them,” General Nakasone said. He later added, “They don’t fear us.”





And I would bet that will change PDQ.

It takes time to implement and field an over all strategy and Defense. I believe that is happening currently. I do NOT believe that has been happening for the past several Administrations. It takes some time to get back up to speed, after years of neglect.

YVMD.



You are free to think what you want will happen in the future.

But I see no reasonable source for that hope, so far.

I read somewhere that POTUS has undertaken more effort to sanction a pornstar, than he has has for Putin.

Not sure that is not entirely accurate.






I on the other hand see a "reasonable source of hope." That particular distinction, is where we differ.

Certainly one of the differences. I also note that you can give no source for that hope.

You have previously stated (If I understood you correctly.) That you did not vote in the General Election. Correct?

Not exactly. I said that I did not vote for president, there was certainly far more on the ballot besides that. I also gave my reason for declining that particular decision, and that was as a matter of conscience.

If so, you should have no (valid) complaint as to what is transpiring.

That's absurd. Think about what you are saying. Since when did exercise of the first amendment to freedom of religion lead to a loss of freedom of speech ?


You can not possibly think that Hillary would be doing better. I personally shudder to think, where we would be at this point. (Re.) Her pathetic tenure as SOS. Her pathetic "reset button," Bengahzi, Her Personal Computer Server, Etc etc etc. I could go on ad nauseam, But why beat a dead horse. Most of us get it.

I could not care less what you want to list as the failings of Hillary Clinton. I referred to the current system as a kakistocrcy several times. To be honest, explaining this to you over and over again is getting tiresome. I think it is foolish for youto take such a short sighted outlook at this point as to claim to know what the outcome of this presidency will actually be.


I stand by my previous post, "throwing your hands up, and saying whatever is not an option." At least that is not a viable option to me, and Thank God, it was not enough of a viable option to enough of us, to overturn the only other option available to us, at that time.

Following your conscience is not throwing your hands up and saying whatever. It is discipleship. If you do not understand that, then there is the real difference between us.


I have hope. I am sorry you do not. Perhaps you should have Voted.

Oh, I have hope. Just not the same one you apparently have.

Another difference is that I have a real reason for that hope.







Not going to be drawn into a lengthy discussion with you regarding your counter-points. You have your views, I have mine.

By the way, I am a Believer. You choosing to make this a religious diatribe does you no favors. Casting aspersions? I'd say yes.



Your one statement, "This is getting tiresome." Is absolutely true.

Edited by - 84Bravo1 on 03/18/2018 12:02:28 PM
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Barzillia
Advanced Member

27587 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2018 :  12:18:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

Still winning ?

I guess that depends on what you think winning is.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-15/russian-hackers-attacking-u-s-power-grid-aviation-fbi-warns


And from https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/us/politics/russia-cyberattacks.html

"Lt. Gen. Paul Nakasone, who has been nominated as director of the National Security Agency and commander of United States Cyber Command, the military’s cyberunit, said during his Senate confirmation hearing this month that countries attacking the United States so far have little to worry about.

“I would say right now they do not think much will happen to them,” General Nakasone said. He later added, “They don’t fear us.”





And I would bet that will change PDQ.

It takes time to implement and field an over all strategy and Defense. I believe that is happening currently. I do NOT believe that has been happening for the past several Administrations. It takes some time to get back up to speed, after years of neglect.

YVMD.



You are free to think what you want will happen in the future.

But I see no reasonable source for that hope, so far.

I read somewhere that POTUS has undertaken more effort to sanction a pornstar, than he has has for Putin.

Not sure that is not entirely accurate.






I on the other hand see a "reasonable source of hope." That particular distinction, is where we differ.

Certainly one of the differences. I also note that you can give no source for that hope.

You have previously stated (If I understood you correctly.) That you did not vote in the General Election. Correct?

Not exactly. I said that I did not vote for president, there was certainly far more on the ballot besides that. I also gave my reason for declining that particular decision, and that was as a matter of conscience.

If so, you should have no (valid) complaint as to what is transpiring.

That's absurd. Think about what you are saying. Since when did exercise of the first amendment to freedom of religion lead to a loss of freedom of speech ?


You can not possibly think that Hillary would be doing better. I personally shudder to think, where we would be at this point. (Re.) Her pathetic tenure as SOS. Her pathetic "reset button," Bengahzi, Her Personal Computer Server, Etc etc etc. I could go on ad nauseam, But why beat a dead horse. Most of us get it.

I could not care less what you want to list as the failings of Hillary Clinton. I referred to the current system as a kakistocrcy several times. To be honest, explaining this to you over and over again is getting tiresome. I think it is foolish for youto take such a short sighted outlook at this point as to claim to know what the outcome of this presidency will actually be.


I stand by my previous post, "throwing your hands up, and saying whatever is not an option." At least that is not a viable option to me, and Thank God, it was not enough of a viable option to enough of us, to overturn the only other option available to us, at that time.

Following your conscience is not throwing your hands up and saying whatever. It is discipleship. If you do not understand that, then there is the real difference between us.


I have hope. I am sorry you do not. Perhaps you should have Voted.

Oh, I have hope. Just not the same one you apparently have.

Another difference is that I have a real reason for that hope.







Not going to be drawn into a lengthy discussion with you regarding your counter-points. You have your views, I have mine.

By the way, I am a Believer. You choosing to make this a religious diatribe does you no favors. Casting aspersions? I'd say yes.



Your one statement, "This is getting tiresome." Is absolutely true.




If you are going to ask questions of me, please do not presume to tell me how to respond.

if you believe that you should separate your faith from the rest of your life, that is up to you.

I am taught that I should not.

"Most people fancy themselves innocent of those crimes of which they cannot be convicted." Seneca

"Hope has two children: anger, and courage." Augustine, Confessions

Der Verzagten aber und Ungläubigen und Greulichen und Totschläger und Hurer und Zauberer und Abgöttischen und aller Lügner, deren Teil wird sein in dem Pfuhl, der mit Feuer und Schwefel brennt; das ist der andere Tod.


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Grasshopper
Advanced Member

12831 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2018 :  12:28:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hillary's books have served your diatribe well, for the elitist ego trips that it feeds.
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84Bravo1
Advanced Member

10514 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2018 :  12:44:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by 84Bravo1

quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

Still winning ?

I guess that depends on what you think winning is.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-15/russian-hackers-attacking-u-s-power-grid-aviation-fbi-warns


And from https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/us/politics/russia-cyberattacks.html

"Lt. Gen. Paul Nakasone, who has been nominated as director of the National Security Agency and commander of United States Cyber Command, the military’s cyberunit, said during his Senate confirmation hearing this month that countries attacking the United States so far have little to worry about.

“I would say right now they do not think much will happen to them,” General Nakasone said. He later added, “They don’t fear us.”





And I would bet that will change PDQ.

It takes time to implement and field an over all strategy and Defense. I believe that is happening currently. I do NOT believe that has been happening for the past several Administrations. It takes some time to get back up to speed, after years of neglect.

YVMD.



You are free to think what you want will happen in the future.

But I see no reasonable source for that hope, so far.

I read somewhere that POTUS has undertaken more effort to sanction a pornstar, than he has has for Putin.

Not sure that is not entirely accurate.






I on the other hand see a "reasonable source of hope." That particular distinction, is where we differ.

Certainly one of the differences. I also note that you can give no source for that hope.

You have previously stated (If I understood you correctly.) That you did not vote in the General Election. Correct?

Not exactly. I said that I did not vote for president, there was certainly far more on the ballot besides that. I also gave my reason for declining that particular decision, and that was as a matter of conscience.

If so, you should have no (valid) complaint as to what is transpiring.

That's absurd. Think about what you are saying. Since when did exercise of the first amendment to freedom of religion lead to a loss of freedom of speech ?


You can not possibly think that Hillary would be doing better. I personally shudder to think, where we would be at this point. (Re.) Her pathetic tenure as SOS. Her pathetic "reset button," Bengahzi, Her Personal Computer Server, Etc etc etc. I could go on ad nauseam, But why beat a dead horse. Most of us get it.

I could not care less what you want to list as the failings of Hillary Clinton. I referred to the current system as a kakistocrcy several times. To be honest, explaining this to you over and over again is getting tiresome. I think it is foolish for youto take such a short sighted outlook at this point as to claim to know what the outcome of this presidency will actually be.


I stand by my previous post, "throwing your hands up, and saying whatever is not an option." At least that is not a viable option to me, and Thank God, it was not enough of a viable option to enough of us, to overturn the only other option available to us, at that time.

Following your conscience is not throwing your hands up and saying whatever. It is discipleship. If you do not understand that, then there is the real difference between us.


I have hope. I am sorry you do not. Perhaps you should have Voted.

Oh, I have hope. Just not the same one you apparently have.

Another difference is that I have a real reason for that hope.







Not going to be drawn into a lengthy discussion with you regarding your counter-points. You have your views, I have mine.

By the way, I am a Believer. You choosing to make this a religious diatribe does you no favors. Casting aspersions? I'd say yes.



Your one statement, "This is getting tiresome." Is absolutely true.




If you are going to ask questions of me, please do not presume to tell me how to respond.

if you believe that you should separate your faith from the rest of your life, that is up to you.

I am taught that I should not.








Meh...............Have a nice day Barz. I am.
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Navybat
Advanced Member

USA
7040 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2018 :  1:47:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jerrywh818

Horse plains drifter and MR. Perfect.
Why not a nuclear bomb then? Or nerve gas?


Neither of those are ARMS. They are weapons. No one "bears" bombs. You can certainly tip your arrows with curare, a nerve agent.

Once again, your logic is nonexistent.

FLY NAVY!
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Barzillia
Advanced Member

27587 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2018 :  1:59:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Navybat

quote:
Originally posted by jerrywh818

Horse plains drifter and MR. Perfect.
Why not a nuclear bomb then? Or nerve gas?


Neither of those are ARMS. They are weapons. No one "bears" bombs. You can certainly tip your arrows with curare, a nerve agent.

Once again, your logic is nonexistent.




Nonsense.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Strategic-Arms-Limitation-Talks

https://thelawdictionary.org/arms/

"Most people fancy themselves innocent of those crimes of which they cannot be convicted." Seneca

"Hope has two children: anger, and courage." Augustine, Confessions

Der Verzagten aber und Ungläubigen und Greulichen und Totschläger und Hurer und Zauberer und Abgöttischen und aller Lügner, deren Teil wird sein in dem Pfuhl, der mit Feuer und Schwefel brennt; das ist der andere Tod.



Edited by - Barzillia on 03/18/2018 2:03:32 PM
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Mr. Perfect
Advanced Member

52244 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2018 :  2:40:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

quote:
Originally posted by Navybat

quote:
Originally posted by jerrywh818

Horse plains drifter and MR. Perfect.
Why not a nuclear bomb then? Or nerve gas?


Neither of those are ARMS. They are weapons. No one "bears" bombs. You can certainly tip your arrows with curare, a nerve agent.

Once again, your logic is nonexistent.




Nonsense.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Strategic-Arms-Limitation-Talks

https://thelawdictionary.org/arms/


hahahahahahahahahah..... Ahhhh the hilarity. Thanks Barz!

"When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace." -Jesus

"Also he [David] bade them teach the children of Judah [the use of] the bow" -Samuel

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Some will die in hot pursuit and fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit while sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

G1
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Barzillia
Advanced Member

27587 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2018 :  08:02:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Still funny ?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/trump-congratulates-putin-on-his-reelection-kremlin-says/2018/03/20/379effd0-2c57-11e8-8dc9-3b51e028b845_story.html?utm_term=.6467aebd6e43

"Most people fancy themselves innocent of those crimes of which they cannot be convicted." Seneca

"Hope has two children: anger, and courage." Augustine, Confessions

Der Verzagten aber und Ungläubigen und Greulichen und Totschläger und Hurer und Zauberer und Abgöttischen und aller Lügner, deren Teil wird sein in dem Pfuhl, der mit Feuer und Schwefel brennt; das ist der andere Tod.


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Mr. Perfect
Advanced Member

52244 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2018 :  11:31:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barzillia

Still funny ?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/trump-congratulates-putin-on-his-reelection-kremlin-says/2018/03/20/379effd0-2c57-11e8-8dc9-3b51e028b845_story.html?utm_term=.6467aebd6e43

Less so, due to your inanity. If you have some point feel free to make it at any time.

"When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace." -Jesus

"Also he [David] bade them teach the children of Judah [the use of] the bow" -Samuel

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Some will die in hot pursuit and fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit while sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

G1
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