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Global warming!!!!!

ltcdotyltcdoty Member Posts: 4,163 ✭✭✭
edited August 2019 in General Discussion
Way up here in New York State on the Vermont border, the trees are starting to turn colors. Must be global warming...

Comments

  • jimdeerejimdeere Member, Moderator Posts: 25,583 ******
    edited November -1
    95.7 deg. here today in middle Appalachia. Been in the 90?s all week. No rain in sight.
    Please, Mr. Gore, how about a little relief?
    I take back all the jokes I made concerning you.
  • montanajoemontanajoe Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 57,892 ******
    edited November -1
  • yoshmysteryoshmyster Member Posts: 20,979 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Winter's coming. I'm ready with my Heat4Less heater :D.
  • KenK/84BravoKenK/84Bravo Member Posts: 12,055 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    yoshmyster wrote:
    Winter's coming. I'm ready with my Heat4Less heater :D.

    Still waiting on specs, BTU's, (watts drawn etc.) price, ordering info. You know, all the pertinent stuff.
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 50,947 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No worries, if you assume global warming is human mediated and we returned to stone age technology tomorrow, it is already too late to fix it. If you think the climate change is not human mediated, it is already too late to fix it.
  • Quick&DeadQuick&Dead Member Posts: 1,466 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is an excellent video that covers the global warming/climate change racket, the fallacy of the ozone hole, the false rhetoric of the ?green new deal? with the climate crisis are money driven by a few for their benefit.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRXzfJVcV6s&feature=youtu.be

    :lol:
    The government has no rights. Only the people have rights which empowers the government.
    We have enough gun laws, what we need is IDIOT control.
    Blood makes you related. Loyalty makes you family.

    I thought getting old would take longer. :shock:
  • droptopdroptop Member Posts: 8,367 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Al gore said the "tipping point" for fixing climate change was 2006. My opinion is "why worry" it it's too late.

    We're living on borrowed time,, get out the sun screen and enjoy it.

    https://www.foxnews.com/science/10-times-experts-predicted-the-world-would-end-by-now
    In 1967, a best-selling book came out called ?Famine 1975! America?s Decision: Who Will Survive??

    It predicted mass starvation around the developing world due to increasing population. ?Today?s crisis can move in only one direction ? toward catastrophe,? it warned.

    Some experts praised the book and ridiculed doubters.
    Remember Soylent Green?
  • bambihunterbambihunter Member Posts: 10,675 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I honestly do not see how anyone can not see we are changing the climate. Just in the last 100 years alone with the ice melt pictures. Sure, there have been natural ebb and flow to CO2 levels due to things like volcanoes. But, things are changing. Do we need to all sell our dino-fueled vehicles and drive a Prius, heck no. But, we do need to think about our impact and work towards solutions lest we end up like our neighbor planets.

    I read a great article recently which stated one of the basics of science principals is that matter cannot be created nor destroyed, just changes in form (my words, not theirs). He said the difference in now and natural ebbs and flows throughout history is that normally, CO2 is absorbed by plants, oxygen is released. When those plants die, many get buried, along with the carbon they had absorbed. Later, a small amount might be exposed again through processes like erosion, but generally they stay buried. But, then we came along and started digging it up, burning it, and releasing it back into the atmosphere at a quicker rate than it would in nature. We are also clearing land at an incredible rate. The two add up to increased CO2.

    Though in the minority here, I do believe global warming is real, that we are largely the cause of it, and that it is making the weather swings wider and storms stronger. I think like most things, well intentioned, or ill-informed people go overboard trying to over-hype it and go crazy with proposed solutions and laws. But, I guess I am a hypocrite because I am still driving older vehicles ('83 Hurst/Olds and '98 Chevy K1500, I still burn wood in the winter, still use older freon's, etc.
    Fanatic collector of the 10mm auto.
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,134 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There are people, and things are happening. But it is NOT logical to say that one causes the other. The full moon is now waning. Is that human-caused? Ice ages come, and ice ages go - and have possible hundreds of times. Not one cycle was human caused. How can you prove that the warm age we are now in has ANY human causation?

    If there is a human element to it, as we responsible for 10%, or 1% or .000001%? How the hell can you say? What is your baseline measurement?
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 6,445 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rocky Raab wrote:
    There are people, and things are happening. But it is NOT logical to say that one causes the other. The full moon is now waning. Is that human-caused? Ice ages come, and ice ages go - and have possible hundreds of times. Not one cycle was human caused. How can you prove that the warm age we are now in has ANY human causation?

    If there is a human element to it, as we responsible for 10%, or 1% or .000001%? How the hell can you say? What is your baseline measurement?

    Rocky you are a voice of reason. Don't you know a voice of reason has no place in the histrionics of modern day politics? If this subject had no way of garnering votes or keeping the population entertained (distracted) we would hardly hear anything about it. As a country we have made vast steps in fighting pollution over the last 50 years. I think of the global warming hysteria as a way keeping the masses engaged in that fight. After all we haven't started any rivers on fire lately to show how bad pollution can be. Bob
  • bambihunterbambihunter Member Posts: 10,675 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rocky Raab wrote:
    If there is a human element to it, as we responsible for 10%, or 1% or .000001%? How the hell can you say? What is your baseline measurement?

    Ice core samples that go back ~10,000 years. It shows a relatively stable CO2 of 225 ppm. Then, with the start of the industrial revolution, the percentage it increase starts going up exponentially. It is now sitting at over 400 ppm now. Less than 200 years, nearly doubled.
    Fanatic collector of the 10mm auto.
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,134 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    10,000 years is still well within the current inter-glacial age. There have been times millions of years ago when atmospheric CO2 was something like 2400 ppm - SIX times what it is now and TEN times your "baseline". No humans around then. Natural causes then, and natural causes now.

    But it is again a logical fallacy to say that the rise in CO2 and the start of the industrial revolution are in a cause/effect relationship. You cannot prove it is a causal rather than a coincidental relationship. If you have ham and eggs for breakfast and it rains that day, your model would claim that eating ham and eggs causes rain. That's just as much bull chips as human-caused climate change.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • Quick&DeadQuick&Dead Member Posts: 1,466 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rocky Raab wrote:
    10,000 years is still well within the current inter-glacial age. There have been times millions of years ago when atmospheric CO2 was something like 2400 ppm - SIX times what it is now and TEN times your "baseline". No humans around then. Natural causes then, and natural causes now.

    But it is again a logical fallacy to say that the rise in CO2 and the start of the industrial revolution are in a cause/effect relationship. You cannot prove it is a causal rather than a coincidental relationship. If you have ham and eggs for breakfast and it rains that day, your model would claim that eating ham and eggs causes rain. That's just as much bull chips as human-caused climate change.


    The "sky is falling" gang refuse to accept logic and common sense IMO.
    ;)
    The government has no rights. Only the people have rights which empowers the government.
    We have enough gun laws, what we need is IDIOT control.
    Blood makes you related. Loyalty makes you family.

    I thought getting old would take longer. :shock:
  • mrmike08075mrmike08075 Member Posts: 10,998 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So we are told - we can observe that other planets in our system - other orbital bodies are experiencing a period of warning...

    So if Mars and Phobos and Deimos are experiencing "global warming" or orbiting body climate change without the influence or impact of man and his machinations and machines...

    Similar rates of change over similar periods of time...

    Do we blame man - and by man I mean conservative right wing religious white males - for those changes???

    Or is solar activity possibly a factor...

    Has man influenced the climate of the earth - absolutely.

    But how does one explain the history of ice ages and flood ages and solar output changes over the last 60 million years...

    Could man's activity bring about a tipping point or exacerbate the rate of change of the climate or alter the peaks and valleys and temporal lengths of such epochs...

    In the late 70's we were taught in grade school about an approaching ice age triggered by man and arriving earlier than the normal cycle of the earth's climactic rate of change...

    Time magazine and the new York Times and PBS and the BBC and the education system were blaming man for bringing about an ice age...

    A bunch of sci fi movies and TV shows followed the theme...

    And don't get me started about the false hockey stick climate data used to advance a political agenda...

    Mike
  • bearman49709bearman49709 Member Posts: 503
    edited November -1
    ltcdoty wrote:
    Way up here in New York State on the Vermont border, the trees are starting to turn colors. Must be global warming...

    Leaves always start changing in August here in Michigan.
  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 6,445 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ltcdoty wrote:
    Way up here in New York State on the Vermont border, the trees are starting to turn colors. Must be global warming...

    Leaves always start changing in August here in Michigan.

    You must be further north than me. In the Lapeer area we really don't see any change until after the first week or so in Sept. Bob
  • yoshmysteryoshmyster Member Posts: 20,979 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    yoshmyster wrote:
    Winter's coming. I'm ready with my Heat4Less heater :D.

    Still waiting on specs, BTU's, (watts drawn etc.) price, ordering info. You know, all the pertinent stuff.

    Didn't I drop the pertinent stuff in my search last year? I think I paid $200? I tried calling but I got an answering machine and I felt that was odd so I looked on ebay. I knew from his videos dude repaired Eden Pure and the seller had something about Eden Pure so I placed my order through that. I think they were a little cheaper? Like free shipping cheaper.

    Anyways pertinent stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUNDxpWplBM
  • bambihunterbambihunter Member Posts: 10,675 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rocky Raab wrote:
    10,000 years is still well within the current inter-glacial age. There have been times millions of years ago when atmospheric CO2 was something like 2400 ppm - SIX times what it is now and TEN times your "baseline". No humans around then. Natural causes then, and natural causes now.

    But it is again a logical fallacy to say that the rise in CO2 and the start of the industrial revolution are in a cause/effect relationship. You cannot prove it is a causal rather than a coincidental relationship.

    That would be specious reasoning.

    There is absolutely no doubt that CO2 levels have changed throughout time. When there are sudden changes, there is always a cause. Historically, those would be huge volcanic eruptions like Yellowstone, Mount Tambora, Mount Thera, Krakatoa, etc. There have been no further eruptions on this scale since. Krakatoa in 1883 and Mount Pinatubo in 1991 were only a VEI 6 and the others were VEI 7 if memory serves. Each VEI is 10x stronger than the previous. These typically release more sulphur dioxide than carbon dioxide however.

    Regardless, I don't see how a person couldn't understand the connection. CO2 an element that naturally is consumed, buried, exposed, consumed, and again buried at a natural rate through plants and things like phytoplankton. They are then occasionally exposed again via volcanoes or erosion. Our influence on it is that we are digging/drilling it up at an exponential rate more than nature would expose it through natural processes. We also have cleared more land than before. We have lost 20% of the Amazon forest area alone just during my lifetime. Plants store carbon as they respire. If they die, and remain at the surface, the decomposition releases this carbon again. But, if it gets buried then that carbon is stored, out of circulation so to speak until it repeats like above.

    I am well aware of natures cycles both short term and on 'earth time' scale of millions of years. To be clear, I am not an alarmist. I don't think we should spend billions and abandon our coal power plants, drive electric cars, turn off our air conditioner, etc. But, we need to realize we affect the natural world considerably more than any other species. Our decisions moving forward, as things get built, replaced, etc should take that into account. I also think it is silly for the U.S. alone to spend all this money (some we have already, and some that is planned) for minor changes when China, the largest producer of it, does nothing. The cost of our goods will go up, further lowering our position in global politics while the net change will be negligible. Humans have to come together as a race to affect change. Honestly, the only real argument isn't whether we contributed to the change, but rather to what extent we affect it.

    When in college, my original major was towards science. Something along the lines of Biologist, Earth Sciences, or Geologist. I had a life changing injury towards the end that would prevent rough field work so went a different direction.

    I guess to me, opposition to this is like the flat earth people. I just can't fathom how that thought still exists. I can't, nor will I try, to change your mind if it is made up. The info is out there. There is a lot of extremist on both sides, but check out the actual data numbers, scientific studies, etc. Don't just believe the various media sources which all have a vested interest in guiding the data a certain way. Which reminds me of a quote that I often think of from my Statistics instructor. He said "You can use statistics to prove anything. It is all how you disseminate the information".
    Fanatic collector of the 10mm auto.
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,134 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That quote about statistics works both ways. When NOAA and NASA consistently adjust reported temperature readings up (they call it instrument calibration) but never down, and then claim that temperatures are rising, that's not science, that's political agenda.

    Again, I have yet to see a proven causal link between CO2 and human activity, only the bold statement that "this is going up and we must be the cause." Nor an answer to THE most important question: "If we are a cause, how much?" Because if human activity is only contributing a tiny fraction of the CO2 increase, what's the point of crippling our societies to try to change it? That is, IF we could change it. I say again to climate alarmists, give us a verifiable number of how much we're alleged to be causing.

    Then, there's the curious constant emphasis on CO2 to start with. Water vapor is a far greater greenhouse gas than CO2, yet there's hardly any discussion of it - probably because there's no way to monetize water vapor control. There's a great deal of money to be confiscated under the claim of CO2 control.

    Volcanoes? We don't have to wait for a super volcano. There are from 50 to 70 volcano eruptions every year, with about 20 to 25 erupting at any one time around the world. Together, they spew many cubic miles of greenhouse gases, millions of tons of them. Those are the volcanoes we see. Nobody can say for sure how many are erupting below the oceans - and also producing gases. But estimates are that there could be hundreds of them, all active right now.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • bambihunterbambihunter Member Posts: 10,675 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That was precisely my point with statistics. The facts are out there. Facts are facts. We can find and research them to make our own opinions. Each side cherry picks the statics that support their case.
    Remember that for each VEI a volcano's rating goes up, it is 10x more powerful than the last. So, one level 7 is as strong as ten level 6's. We have not had ANYTHING like a level 7 in the last millennium and not even that many VEI 6's. To put it in perspective, Mt. St. Helen's was rated only a 4 by most volcanologist though there are a source or two that says it is a 5. Still, even at a 5 that is 100x less powerful than 7.
    Water vapor can and does have CO2, S02, and other elements in with it as well so just calling it water vapor doesn't imply it is ONLY H2O.

    My dad has a saying that I have often used in life. "Always make your best decisions with the information you have available at the time". I think largely he was just saying making a timely decision is generally better than doing nothing; even if the information changes some as more comes in.

    Alright. I am out. Gonna go do something besides debate global warming. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
    Fanatic collector of the 10mm auto.
  • bearman49709bearman49709 Member Posts: 503
    edited November -1
    Leaves always start changing in August here in Michigan.
    [/quote]

    You must be further north than me. In the Lapeer area we really don't see any change until after the first week or so in Sept. Bob
    [/quote]

    I was born and raised in Goodrich. After the Army I lived in Davison then Burton. Moved to Atlanta in 1997.
    Leaves start changing in Lapeer in August, stop and look at the trees and you will see some of them are already turning colors
  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 6,445 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Leaves always start changing in August here in Michigan.

    You must be further north than me. In the Lapeer area we really don't see any change until after the first week or so in Sept. Bob
    [/quote]

    I was born and raised in Goodrich. After the Army I lived in Davison then Burton. Moved to Atlanta in 1997.
    Leaves start changing in Lapeer in August, stop and look at the trees and you will see some of them are already turning colors
    [/quote]

    Small world - live in Hadley with Goodrich Post office for my mail. Grew up in Flint and worked in Davison 89-97. Just looked , nope no leaf color yet but the month ain't over yet. Humidity is about 90% right now and I can't wait for some fall weather. If your talking about Atlanta, Michigan shouldn't you be elk dude instead of bearman :D Bob
  • spasmcreekspasmcreek Member Posts: 37,724 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i am doing my bit for global warming ..drove to next town this afternoon with the AC on high and the windows down. didn't seem to help much it is still 100*
  • Quick&DeadQuick&Dead Member Posts: 1,466 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Global warming is a bunch of B.S. drummed up by the liberal communist socialist Democrats to create unrest, anxiety, division in the population so they can act as saviors with lip service, yet really doing nothing!

    :lol::lol:
    The government has no rights. Only the people have rights which empowers the government.
    We have enough gun laws, what we need is IDIOT control.
    Blood makes you related. Loyalty makes you family.

    I thought getting old would take longer. :shock:
  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,857 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ltcdoty wrote:
    Way up here in New York State on the Vermont border, the trees are starting to turn colors. Must be global warming...
    Its a really weird year here in N.E. Kansas too, usually, at least by the 3rd week of July the grass would start getting crunchy ... IT'S STILL GREEN!!!!!
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
  • Quick&DeadQuick&Dead Member Posts: 1,466 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    kimberkid wrote:
    ltcdoty wrote:
    Way up here in New York State on the Vermont border, the trees are starting to turn colors. Must be global warming...
    Its a really weird year here in N.E. Kansas too, usually, at least by the 3rd week of July the grass would start getting crunchy ... IT'S STILL GREEN!!!!!



    Same here........of course regular rains and humid weather conditions are why.
    ;)
    The government has no rights. Only the people have rights which empowers the government.
    We have enough gun laws, what we need is IDIOT control.
    Blood makes you related. Loyalty makes you family.

    I thought getting old would take longer. :shock:
  • bearman49709bearman49709 Member Posts: 503
    edited November -1
    BobJudy wrote:
    Leaves always start changing in August here in Michigan.

    You must be further north than me. In the Lapeer area we really don't see any change until after the first week or so in Sept. Bob

    I was born and raised in Goodrich. After the Army I lived in Davison then Burton. Moved to Atlanta in 1997.
    Leaves start changing in Lapeer in August, stop and look at the trees and you will see some of them are already turning colors
    [/quote]

    Small world - live in Hadley with Goodrich Post office for my mail. Grew up in Flint and worked in Davison 89-97. Just looked , nope no leaf color yet but the month ain't over yet. Humidity is about 90% right now and I can't wait for some fall weather. If your talking about Atlanta, Michigan shouldn't you be elk dude instead of bearman :D Bob
    [/quote]

    I worked in Davison from March 88-May 97.
    If you don't see any leaf color yet your not looking at the right tree's.
    I picked up the nickname "Bear" in high School, I was 6'2" weighed 195, my hair was below my shoulders and I had a mustache since I was 13.

    Then down in Panama I walked into a bar one night with a "lady" of the night sitting in a chair by the door. When I walked by he she said I looked like a bear in Spanish, I backed up and asked her in Spanish what she said and she almost wet herself when she found out I understood Spanish.

    Now I'm 6'1" weight 208, my ponytail hangs below my lower shoulder blades, I have a full beard, have 14 grand kids and one great grand kid and I still look like a Bear, only a crippled one that uses a cane to get around.
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