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Neck size reloading in an m-1 rifle.

kidthatsirishkidthatsirish Member Posts: 6,985 ✭✭✭
Yup...of course I have read many posts and webpages about how you cannot reliably shoot neck sized reloads through an autoloading rifle. That instead they must be full length resized.

Today, I took 8 cases that I had fired through my 1903a3 Springfield. I then reloaded them with a 150 grain hornady soft tip interlock over 54 grains of H414 with a WLR primer.

Each round fired like a champ through my M-1 rifle.

I suppose I could have been lucky, after all it was only one enbloc clip. I will have to load some more up to know for sure.

Anybody else had similar results?

Comments

  • navc130navc130 Member Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So now you know that will work between those two rifles, but do not know if it will work with another rifle. It all depends on chamber dimensions. Would be interesting to see if a M1 neck sized case would chamber in the Springfield.
  • 62fuelie62fuelie Member Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It would, also be interesting to see if those same cases would function now that they have been fired through the M-1 semi-auto action. The '03 may have a good tight chamber, especially at the base where the semi-autos seem to be balkiest. I always full-length sized in small-base dies for my M-1s and M-1A. Just for reliability.
  • iceracerxiceracerx Member Posts: 8,860 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Try it the other way around. I'd bet you won't have much success.

    If you 03 chamber is tighter than that of your M1 you won't have issues.

    If you were to try just neck sizing brass that came out of a different semi-auto, I suspect you would have different results too.

    Neck size the brass that came out of the M1 and try it in the M1 again. Dollars to doughnuts, I bet you have issues.
  • kidthatsirishkidthatsirish Member Posts: 6,985 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I appreciate all the suggestions from you all and I intend to do some experiments to see if different brass will work in different rifles now.

    The only thing though is that my M-1 is the only semi auto rifle I have chambered in 30-06.

    I guess I'll just have to buy another right?#129315;#128526;#128521;

    Oh I forgot to mention and I'm not sure this counts...but I do trim all my brass to minimum length. I would think this would help but I'm not sure how much?
  • waltermoewaltermoe Member Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The reason I full length size all my rounds for a automatic is, because the rounds are moved more violently when loaded in the chamber and extracted, and the chamber on gas operated rifles tend to foul, and get more dirty than bolt action rifles, as I'm sure you know. I have tried to see how tight of a group I can get myself from my M1 Grand by just neck sizing, never really had any problems, but then again only shot no more than 50 at one time. The worst that could happen is empty round stuck in the chamber, or break the extractor, but not so much with brass cases. But going from chamber on a rifle, to a different rifle; well that is the fun of experimenting they say.
  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 6,579 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A lot of chambers in general can get by with neck sizing only a time or two, then the cartridges start getting harder and harder to chamber. Lever/pump guns then autoloaders are always cut on the loose side IMHO, which is why I don't have many.

    If the firearm shoots well, I might put up with a loose chamber - but that doesn't happen very often.
  • 243winxb243winxb Member Posts: 264 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Auto loading actions may open early. This lets the case head to datum measurement get longer, stretching when using full power loads.

    A light starting load may make the head to datum measurement shorter as the case body expands outward, pulling the shoulder back, shorter. The trim length will also become shorter.

    In the M16, fired brass from the same gun may be neck sized and fired,1 loading. The feed from some magazines may be slowed, producing jams in the M16A1.

    An M1 will fire out of battery. A M16, ar15 will not. FULL LENGTH SIZE FOR AUTOS FOR SAFETY.
    [url] https://saami.org [/url]
  • kidthatsirishkidthatsirish Member Posts: 6,985 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 243winxb
    Auto loading actions may open early. This lets the case head to datum measurement get longer, stretching when using full power loads.

    A light starting load may make the head to datum measurement shorter as the case body expands outward, pulling the shoulder back, shorter. The trim length will also become shorter.

    In the M16, fired brass from the same gun may be neck sized and fired,1 loading. The feed from some magazines may be slowed, producing jams in the M16A1.

    An M1 will fire out of battery. A M16, ar15 will not. FULL LENGTH SIZE FOR AUTOS FOR SAFETY.


    How is it possible for an M-1 to fire out of battery that is using hard primers?
  • MobuckMobuck Member Posts: 13,733 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "How is it possible for an M-1 to fire out of battery that is using hard primers?"
    Don't listen to advice and keep doing what you're doing. It's possible this will never happen to you. If/when it does let us know how it turns out.
  • kidthatsirishkidthatsirish Member Posts: 6,985 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Mobuck
    "How is it possible for an M-1 to fire out of battery that is using hard primers?"
    Don't listen to advice and keep doing what you're doing. It's possible this will never happen to you. If/when it does let us know how it turns out.


    It was genuine question. Everything I've ever been taught and read has told me that an M-1 using ammo with hard primers can't fire out of battery. I get on these boards for information and fun....not to be a smart @$$.
  • MobuckMobuck Member Posts: 13,733 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Under certain circumstances, even "hard primers" won't prevent slam firing. The advice to full length size in order to allow smooth chambering is valid. In most cases, nothing will be gained by neck sizing anyway.
    Not a "smart *" more of an "informed *".
  • Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,365 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't know anybody who has tried neck sizing for an M1 but I know it does not work in an AR10.
    A guy brought one to an F class match. Somebody had told him of the advantages of neck sizing, so he did. None would chamber.
    Did his advisor think he had a bolt action like the rest of us? I don't know.
    Should he have checked his ammo before driving to the match? Sure.
  • 243winxb243winxb Member Posts: 264 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Quote- How is it possible for an M-1 to fire out of battery that is using hard primers?
    [/quote]

    The neck sized reload may not fully let the action close. The disconnector may allow the gun to fire when the trigger is pulled. Damage to gun and you may be the results. http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/gasgunreload.cfm From Sierra.

    More from Sierra below.
    [url] https://saami.org [/url]
  • 243winxb243winxb Member Posts: 264 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Out of Battery Fires

    An out-of-battery firing occurs when the bolt is not fully closed and locked. This is less of a problem in the M16/AR-15 series of rifles due to their bolt design, but it can easily happen with the M1 or M14/M1A rifles. Several safety features are built into these rifles specifically to prevent this from happening. However, these safeties can be defeated, and the condition needs to be understood.

    In the case of original G.I. M1s, we are dealing with rifles that are at least 50 years old. Most have seen hard service on battlefields around the world, often in incredibly harsh conditions. Those that have remained in the U.S. inventory (and were subsequently sold through the DCM/CMP) often have been rebuilt at least once, sometimes more. While the design is one of the best ever fielded, the safety features are mechanical in nature. That means that out-of-spec parts ? whether caused by wear, poorly manufactured (after-market) parts or improper assembly ? can override these safety features. This will become more of an issue as time goes by since fewer gunsmiths will be thoroughly trained in the M1/M14 Service Rifles.
    [url] https://saami.org [/url]
  • 243winxb243winxb Member Posts: 264 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sizing

    Full length sizing is the only option in the Service Rifle world. Minimal sizing does have its place in bolt actions, particularly where top accuracy is the goal. It can also be used in some other types of actions when reliability is not a top priority. However, anything other than full length resizing is a potentially serious problem with the Service Rifle. The case needs to be resized to the point that it will enter the chamber freely, completely and with absolutely no hint of resistance whatsoever. Failure to follow this simple practice is an invitation to some major headaches.

    The most common problem is the failure to fully chamber the round. This is troublesome at best. Considering the force with which the bolt slams home, it can also wedge the round tightly enough in the chamber that it is very difficult to extract without damaging the rifle. In the worst case scenario, it sets the stage for an out-of-battery firing when the trigger is pulled. Improper or insufficient resizing, particularly when combined with a high primer, is also a leading cause of slam-fires.

    Despite the oft-repeated advice that autoloaders, pumpguns and lever-actions require small base dies, the Service Rifles may be the exception that proves the rule. While it?s true that all of these action types lack the powerful camming forces of a bolt-action, the more generous chamber dimensions common to most Service Rifles are normally compatible with standard dies. Please understand that this is a general statement, and that there are exceptions to this. The point is, you don?t need to automatically go to a small base die set. Most of the standard reloading dies produced by reputable firms, such as RCBS, will resize fired brass properly to work in these rifles.
    [url] https://saami.org [/url]
  • 243winxb243winxb Member Posts: 264 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Neck Sizing

    Neck sizing is a popular technique among accuracy-minded reloaders and frequently an effective way to improve accuracy. In essence, it amounts to sizing only the neck portion of the case while leaving the remainder of the shoulder and body untouched. This provides that ?custom-fit? of the brass to chamber that so many shooters are working toward. Chambering a cartridge that has been neck-sized will normally give some slight resistance to closing the bolt. This is perfectly normal and to be expected when using this technique. While it?s a minor detail with the powerful camming forces of a bolt-action, this can be a serious problem with a service rifle. It can cause a failure to fully seat and chamber, effectively jamming the rifle. If the lugs have partially engaged, this can be a very difficult stoppage to clear. Under extreme circumstances, it can even lead to a slam-fire. The solution to these aggravating and potentially dangerous problems is simple: Don?t neck size for semi-auto rifles. For any reason. Ever. Whatever minor accuracy improvements are gained ?and there is not always an improvement ? are more than offset by the problems that are going to occur. Neck sizing is perhaps the best single illustration of a technique that is beneficial for a bolt-action, but is dangerously out of place in a Service Rifle. Stick to full length sizing?ALWAYS?when reloading for autoloaders.
    [url] https://saami.org [/url]
  • kidthatsirishkidthatsirish Member Posts: 6,985 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So what I was referring to in terms of firing out of battery is that an M-1 has two mechanical design characteristics that prevent it from firing out of battery. The hammer may go forward if the trigger is pulled while out of battery, but it will be unable to contact the firing pin.

    So, pending using soft primers that are not properly seated, I dont understand how an M-1 can fire out of battery any more than an AR-15 can assuming that both rifles are in good working order.
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