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One of them Russian
Ricci Wright
Member Posts: 8,260 ✭✭
rifles with the folding meat skewer that?s so handy for roasting hotdogs.
https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?IncludeSellers=562745
https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?IncludeSellers=562745
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Production continued in state arsenals through spring on 1949...
The bbl is slightly longer than that of the model 1938 however Soviet nomenclature refers to both as carbines - whilst other countries call the model 1944 a short rifle...
Integral folding pattern special cruciform bayonet pivoting on an anchor block and storing along the right side of the stock - 8 different variations of bayonet blade configuration and profile along with mounting systems were field tested on converted model 1938 carbines during the April and may spring offensives in 1943 - the improved Semin system was proffered and officially adopted in mid November of the same year (final trials configuration adopted / production beginning in early 1944)
Turning bolt action with two lugs on a detachable bolt head locking into the receiver behind the chamber - 4 groove rifling RH concentric - integrated charger loaded protruding single column box magazine (5+1) rear sight graduated in arshins
Simplified cylindrical receiver - Kabakov y Komeritskly developed - Soviet era guns posses notably poor finish but function was solid and reliable...
The US government purchased over one million obr. 1891 rifles after the Russian revolution - rifles produced stateside by Remington-UMC and the New England Westinghouse company in a bailout intervention - of these 280,050 were retained by our military services most having been designated for training purposes...
We did substantially equip a number of oversized AEF designated divisions in 1919 - troops so equipped went to Arkhangelsk attached to the AIF.
the US troops hated them - having had their 03 Springfield's taken away. When our forces withdrew in 1920 something like 80% of the 1891 rifles had been abandoned by troops and we're colorfully listed as combat losses.
Such great trivia and lore and data and accumulated psychic energy acquired over the ensuing decades...
Mike
The thing that cuts recoil is a brake. :P
If a soldier had a choice the 1903 would win hands down. No wonder they were left behind.
I acquired one each of the 38 - 44 - 91/30 (carbine - short rifle - rifle).numbers matching band select members reserve condition
I acquired a pre revolution hex receiver westinghouse sniper model with matching numbers and intact czarist crest (scope matching)
I acquired a post revolution wartime production round receiver numbers matching (post war scope) sniper variant in hand select grade from tula arsenal
I regret not snagging a half dozen Finnish variants...
Mike
I have a M44 with upgraded Mojo Microclick sights, front and rear.
I have several. What got me in to them, was a "Bring Back," from my Dad. Lifetime (32 yrs.) Army Airborne CSM. (WWII, Korea, Vietnam.)
A 1942 Izhevsk M38 "in the white," rough tool marks, unfinished Birch stock. (No varnish etc.) I know my Dad only picked up Militarily significant items. I would Love to know the History behind this one.
By the time I acquired it, my Dad had had multiple Strokes, and could not communicate.
(That was the main reason, I moved back down South, in order to help take care of him.)
Miss You Dad. (Everyday.)
One might wonder why with limited resources the Russians would produce two nearly identical carbines at the same time - and why they did not discontinue one of the items and concentrate on the superior variant - freeing up materials and manufacturing capability that was desperately needed...
or had that avenue of thought never occurred to any of you fine learned gentlemen of noble bearing and good heart...
Mike
AEF-Siberia was to Guard equipment(Keep it away from the commie revolution) keep the railway open and rescue about 40K soldiers of the Czechoslovak Legion.
The guys in Op Polar Bear most were from the 85th Div but were under British Command. They were to guard supplies too but the supplies had already been made off with so they went to get them back.
Both elements took severe casualties from both combat and non combat.
The did use some Russian Mosins.
Unlike Ken I think they are garbage but its just my opinion.
BTW the AIF in WW1 was an abbreviation of a very famous and hard fighting group called the Australian Imperial Force who with the ANZAC were fighting in the Middle East against the Ottoman Empire.
No.
Would it be my last choice?
No.
Incredibly reliable robust design, inexpensive lethal cartridge. Hypothetically, I might have one or two underground, with ammo in sealed cans as backup if needed. (Not that I do such things.)
Always plan ahead. Have a Fallback, Game plan. Never can be too prepared.
I have shot plenty of them and I am sorry but I am not impressed.
You should be happy that is one less person to get in your way bidding on that one, which is not too bad a looking gun for what it is.
I would rather have the Serbian Mauser M-24 that Ricci has listed.
My Merry Little Army
Your Emoji control, is WAY out of control. Please abstain from further use of the Emoji icons.
My Merry Little Minstrel.
Perhaps it is the EVAPO-RUST, that is clouding your ???? (I am not sure.)
Please,...............................................................................................................................seek help.
7.62 is the magic Soviet number - rifles and short rifles and carbines and sub machine guns and semiautomatic pistols and revolvers and crew served belt fed machine guns and individual man port SAW's and fixed ground vehicle weapons and fixed airframe weapons and sniper rifles...
I mean it must be a magical number imbued with some inherent special mathematical power - maybe a Fibonacci sequence number or part of the formula for positioning ley lines or aligning stones in a henge...
But alas no - that's not the case to save money and resources and time and staff and training and sourcing of foreign made lend lease equipment and limiting the number of machine tools required to manufacture ordnance and rifle bbls they simply developed a proprietary cartridge built around a 7.62 diam projectile...
Mike
Beyond that, the round is plentiful, inexpensive, and quite lethal. Holds minute to Man, quite well in an M38/M44, at 100-150 yards. (Easily.)
IMHO.
The pre 1918 hex receiver mosin nagant 1891 pattern rifles made in imperial Russian armories are vastly superior to / are built from better materials / under better quality control standards / have a tighter almost trued and blueprint matched part tolerance in moving parts...
As good as if not better than the vaunted and celebrated Finnish reworks...
For to many reasons to list here the wartime Soviet state communist controlled production rifles while quite functional and robust are crude by comparison in fit and in finish and in function
If you were to do a direct comparison between a state control wartime manufacture rifle with one made in the united states pre revolution / say a Westinghouse house built treaty of Versailles period rifle you would see and feel the difference like night and day
Look at the 03 Springfield's built during WWII in the 1940's as a war time contingency - with a 2 groove rifled bbl and a flat phosphate finish and simple combat sights and a simple lesser stock and less complex trigger mechanism...
Compare it to a pre war glory days hand fit and finished trued and blueprinted high grade labor and time intensive almost custom shop grade rifles...
You begin to see the problem.
Mike
Yes Sir. I have wondered that very same thing. The M38 came out in 1938, the M44 in 1944. (Perhaps I am wrong?) Soviet Infantry doctrine favored/insisted on bayonets. I believe that is why the M44 came about. From what I understand, the Shorter Carbines were highly sought after/favored in Stalingrad for Urban Warfare/building clearing over the 91/30.
I like the M44. I Love the M38. Hard/difficult to find nice examples anymore.
What do you consider the "Superior Variant?" (And) Why?
Would seriously love to aquire an SVT-40
It was instead designated for second tier support troops - behind the front lines.
Line of communications troops and couriers and detached duty artillery spotters and close air support callers - transport of ammo and food and other mission readiness supplies organizers - intelligence gathering persons and those in charge of transporting captured senior officers.
Critical to combat and unit cohesion senior lifer starshiny or higher grade noncoms...
Mike
(BUT) Yet the shorter Carbines were highly sought after/prized in Stalingrad for its short length, and superior building clearing capabilities. Kind of like/similar to the M1 Carbine. Go figure.
I've handled shot all three, MN's the 91/30, the M38 and the M44. I would pick the M38 over the other two, any day, and twice on Sunday.
What do you consider the "Superior Variant," and why?
But in reality the only 7.62x54R shooting gun I really want is a Winchester M1895 Russian Contract Musket with the integral charger guides.
[media]
Yes.
These old rifles, obviously suck.
The video shows clearly, what You can do with that opinion. 960 yards with open sights? The guy was literally killing it.
Conscripts were being poured into the ranks with little or no training especially amongst the mongoloid folks from the Caucasus regions...
Large numbers of peasant farmers with little education - most illiterate (in my estimation only the Italian conscripts were less prepared and less educated) we're organized into units with a core of starshiny proffesional lifer noncoms and a sprinkling of officers - many achieving rank and assignment through graft and patronage and family association - and of course political officers...
Large numbers of these troops were slaughtered or wounded or captured.
Typically in a frontal assault on German defensive positions the Russians would send in 3 waves to attack. In the first wave went the experienced troops with the best gear and training...
They all had rifles and pistols and grenades and satchel charges and ladders and trumpets and flare guns and large wood axes...
The second d wave only half the troops were armed - or moderately equipped. They were told that when the time came for them to need a rifle there would be plenty lying around for them to use...
Some did not have coats or boots or shovels or axes or ladders.
The third wave was even worse off - often containing penal battalion fodder and deviants and criminals and homosexuals. They were at best poorly equipped and sent in with virtually no weapons and equipment - being taught to strip the dead and arm up and join the ongoing assault...
Noncoms and officers brought up the rear with pistols and submachine guns - so they could summarily execute anyone who broke ranks and fled or refused to advance...
The programs and sweeping execution or imprisonment or exile or labor camp transfers of the trained professional officer Corp by Stalin did not help matters.
Mike
Yes Sir. Agreed.
The initial front of the Soviet Military, took heavy losses. This was not due to the firearm issued, (if any,) ["See, picking one up.] Poor Tactics and Leadership, more prevalent than most of the causes, by far.
The Soviet Military Rifle 7.62X54R, overcame the Deutcsh over all. The Germans had 7-8 mm Mausers. It did not prevail. It was more complicated than that. Soviet T34 Tanks, for example.
The Winchester model 1895 lever action 3 band / 3 line full length military musket with under bbl tube magazine - stripper clip feed guides milled into the receiver - bayonet lug and matching bayonet - czarist Russian imperial crest still fully intact and deeply stamped on receiver ring...
Magazine cut off mechanism...
and currently I have a Warner swazey sighting device mounted on it - which of course almost certainly never happened -.but I like to think that just maybe it did...
Mike
somebody can probably look at those puffs of dirt and estimate wind speed.
That range is gone now having been converted to sporting clays.
I have on occasion fired several rifles at 600 yds at range #14 on Fort Dix in NJ...
I fired an 03a3 Springfield with iron sights
I fired an M1 Garand
I fired a 1917 US enfield
I fired an SMLE No.4 (t) sniper rifle
I fired an M1C Garand sniper rifle
I fired an M1D Garand sniper rifle
I fired a .236.Lee-Navy
I fired a US property / proof marked Ross model 1905 rifle
I fired an 1886/93 Level sniper rifle
I fired a Japanese type 99 sniper rifle
I fired an SAFN Argentine navy FN49 sniper rifle
I fired a custom wildcat FN Mauser sporter in .270 Gibbs (built by rocky Gibbs)
I fired an obo model 1916 Winchester 3 line military lever action rifle in 7.62X54R with a Warner swazey optic
I limited myself to a dozen guns...
My boss the shop owner brought his tank abwehr gewehr model 1918 13.2 TUF Mauser bolt action single shot anti tank rifle - 295.grain tungsten carbide bullet traveling 2700 FPS - something like 50 pounds with biped and ready ammo -sights only went to 500 yds maximum adjustment...
At 600 yds I was the bees knees - I struggled to be marginally adequate at 1000 yds - for me / IMHO a poor performance...
Mike