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About Juries and Social Workers

nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,017 ******
edited October 2001 in General Discussion
I lost faith in the jury system about the time of the infamous O.J. Simpson trial.At that same time, I was involved in a custody trial. I was suing my ex-wife for custody of our two boys. It was a jury trial. Strong evidence of alcohol abuse and spousal abuse was presented. DWI, Public Intoxication, Disorderly Conduct, Assault, you name it. Ex had to take kids and live in a shelter for a time. All this was presented in a 18 hour trial and the jury said, "Sorry, no change."They left the kids where they were rather than move them to live with their father and step-mother, a cop and a school teacher, who drink rarely, do not beat up one another, and attend church regularly.That and O.J. did it for me.One year later, we filed suit again. This time, a judge heard the case, no jury. We called 5 LEOs to tell what they had seen. That was enough. It was over in 2 hours and we left the courthouse with the boys.I could have paid off my house with what I spent on lawyers, but at least I got my boys out of that miserable home.I don't think much of social workers either. In both cases, the judge ordered a social worker to submit a report and an opinion as to where the boys should live. In BOTH cases, the idiot social workers ignored the drunkenness and violence and recommended that the boys remain with their mother. Thank God the judge was smart enough to ignore the recommendation.I may step on some toes here, but this is my opinion. If you have a kid that is too dumb to get in out of the rain, who you fear you will be supporting the rest of your life, push him/her into college and get him/her a degree in social work. This is a field where lack of intelligence and common sense is an asset rather than a liability. Your child will always be able to find employment, and with luck, won't ruin too many peoples' lives.
Certified SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of the General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the premier gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net Jesus is Lord!
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    will270winwill270win Member Posts: 4,845
    edited November -1
    I have not yet met a social worker that had any kind of intelligence. I think you are probably right Nunn.
    If you run, you'll just die tired! will270win@aol.com ~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
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    cpilericpileri Member Posts: 447 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    THere is one. She works at William Beaumont Amy medical Center. Bu as for the rest, I agree with above posts.C
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    Free N TXFree N TX Member Posts: 165 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good for you Mr. Nunn. I applaud you for your undaunting love for your children. There are far too many times that the courts are blinded by the truth and it is the children who suffer. I have no use for the child protective services due to the fact that they answer to nobody when they do wrong and a child is injured or even killed. A few years back I attended a funeral for a 4 year old child that should have been taken from the parents, but the CPS did not want to estrange the child from the family unit, for fear that it might do harm to his psychological well being. (what a bunch of crap) Before the death of the child there had been evidence that the child was being mistreated and abused, yet CPS did nothing to protect the child and left him with the parents. It was after CPS had given them a clean bill of health (so to speak) that the child had his "accident".The parents claimed it was an accident, to this day neither parent has been charged with the murder. Yes, I said murder, even with the makeup the mortician used, I could still see the hand print bruise on the childs face where he had been grabbed and then shoved into the side of the bathtub, crushing his skull. Even the police department suspect it was murder, but claim they lack enough evidence to prosecute.I still see this image whenever I think of that day, I fight back the tears and tremble knowing there was no reason for this to have happened.The day the CPS and other social services (including the court system) are held accountable for their actions and they get rid of the liberal minded staff of these agencies, that will be the day that they can start getting a little bit of credibility. Until then, I have only contempt for these mindless agencies.I am sorry if my posting is not the best written, I have had a hard time typing while thinking of the child that will never know what it is like to grow up and know what it is to be loved. I hope all of you who read this will give your kids a hug and tell them you love them as I do my kids every day. Even my 16 year old son still has to put up with that from me.
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    idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My experiences with Child Protective Service and Army Family Advocacy Committees further solidifies my absolute abhorance for these "scocial science" morons. Take away the alcohol and the violence and just throw in one small loaded gun in the house (even one that is locked in a safe) and you probably would have had your boys following the first trial. I can't possibly feel your pain but I feel the nausea you have for those morons!
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    badboybobbadboybob Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with you Nunn. A mountain of hurt is being done to innocent children by socialist jerks who claim "it's for the children". Thank God you finally got custody to finish raising your boys the right way.
    So many guns to buy. So little money.
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    mudgemudge Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, I have a bit of a happier tale. Mainly because it does not involve social workers.My divorce from ex-wife #2 (hereinafter known as THE *) was quite contentious. I won't go into details about the financial rape that she performed on me. Suffice it to say...she got the goldmine. I got the shaft!Anyway....I got custody of my daughter. She was 12 at the time and THE * was told by her lawyer that at 12, my daughter could pretty much decide who she wanted to live with and the court would honor that decision.4 years later THE * took me to court to get custody. In the filing she claimed all sorts of bad stuff about me.To make a long story short, the Judge heard THE *'S side and then heard from my daughter who refuted ALL of the charges. It took the Judge all of about 2 minutes to decide that young Miss Mudge would remain with her dad. He was also so pi$$edthat THE * had made all these phony claims that he told her she had wasted the court's time and that she was going to have to pay for the lawyer that had been appointed to represent my daughter. I didn't have to say a word during the whole precedure. I had also counter filed for child aupport (just to pi$$ her off) and was awarded that in the same hearing. And that's a story unto itself.A very satisfying "GOTCHA"Mudge
    I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
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    nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,017 ******
    edited November -1
    The guns? Hmmmm. You know, no mention of guns showed up in either report, but I cannot help but believe that their presence may have been influential in the final opinion.You see, I showed both social workers my safes, and made it clear that NO guns are lying about the house, save one, an obsolete inoperative military rifle hanging on the mantle.I do not know if my ex and her husband showed their guns or not. Probably not. They refused to submit fingerprints for a criminal history search and no one said anything about that.
    Certified SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of the General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the premier gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net Jesus is Lord!
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    IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Y, one minority group that is guilty until proven innocent 99.99999999% of the time is fathers. BTDT. Don't always agree w/ you Mr. Nunn, but now I respect you even more.
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    PelicanPelican Member Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Something what really galls me, I've had women in the store looking at jewelry and one will says, "I'm coming and get this when my child support comes in". Makes me want to slap 'em. Damn poor kid got no shoes and she's buyin' jewelry with the support money.Now, you might say, "Well Pelican, why don't you refuse to sell her anything?". Hey, I ani't stupid. If she's gonna spend it she's gonna spend it somewhere. Might as well be with me.
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    nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,017 ******
    edited November -1
    How do you think I felt sending those checks off every month knowing it was budgeted for beer money?Now the checks come to ME!
    Certified SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of the General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the premier gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net Jesus is Lord!
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    arthur wellingarthur welling Member Posts: 66 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nunn,You stepped on my toes.I too have little respect for the 'system', but I trust the judgement of at least one 'social worker'. She's my wife.She's put in her time at CYF too.... Too many years.I can understand what you say about the ones you had to deal with. I have run into them, too..... only thing keeping them standing up is their knuckles dragging the floor.My wife aproached every one of her cases with good sense and judgement. Even though she burned out at CYF a few years ago, she still has 'clients' catching up and thanking her.I had the fun of escorting her on some visits, told to forget where we go and what I see because of 'confidentiality', yet the places were so bad I literally kept hand to grip the whole time.I guess it's like Cops.... good ones and bad ones.One thing always bugged me about the whole perception of what wifey did for a living...EVERYONE had an opinion... usually a loud one... but the case workers. You see, the folks on the line aint allowed to open their mouths.... it's against the rules. They can't even defend themselves outside of a courtroom.
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    nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,017 ******
    edited November -1
    Art: Sorry about the mashed piggies.Allow me to elaborate.The social workers in my cases had already washed out of the public system and were in business for themselves, almost totally relying on court-ordered studies for their subsistence.In agreement with you and some others, I too have been EXTREMELY aggravated by some of the bonehead stunts pulled by CPS, usually not relying on their instincts, but following "policy." In contrast, some of the best people I know are investigators for CPS. There are those who have been at it a while, whose judgement I trust implicitly, and would I would go way above and beyond to assist them.There are "social workers" in other venues as well. I know one who went to work as a counselor for the same public mental health agency that she had patronized for years (as a mental health patient) while she was in college getting her social work degree. She was goofy as a road lizard, and always calling the police to tell us someone had bypassed her home burglar alarm, broke into her house, and ate her breakfast cereal. One of my buds asked her if she had been taking her medication, and she called the station and told the dispatcher to NEVER send that officer to her house again. Wish I had thought of it. To the mental health agency's credit, she did not stay employed long. They also exist in doctors' offices and hospitals. Take your elderly mother there, and you may find one questioning her about dangerous weapons in your home and whether you are abusing her.So, I am sorry to tar the missus with my big broad brush. There are some VERY good workers in the world. There are also some very bad ones, and the system seems to encourage the latter.
    Certified SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of the General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the premier gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net Jesus is Lord![This message has been edited by nunn (edited 10-23-2001).]
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    G&G FirearmsG&G Firearms Member Posts: 37 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    NUNN my case was a little different than yours but the social worker sided with my ex every time.Long story short i had a 1 1/2 day trial by a judge instead of a jury.At the end of the trial the judge was yelling at the social worker my ex & here lawyer.I ended up with my son. Case Closed!
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    YankeeClipperYankeeClipper Member Posts: 669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nunn;After being through Randy Weavers court in Idaho, I trust the jury up there much more than I trust the judge and DA. Michaud, Robinson and Hanlen are judicial terrorists.I never turn down juty duty if I can possably do it.Thoes of us on the right need to sit on more jurys.That is what is really wrong. The wrong people are sitting there.
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    mudgemudge Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Iconoclast.....You hit the nail on the head re. Fathers being guilty 'til proven innocent. If you read my post on this thread you'll remember I mentioned THE * being ordered to pay child support. It was to be $20 a week. Not much, but I didn't need it. It was for irritation purposes only. I was going to give it to Miss Mudge as an allowance supplement. Well, THE * decided she wasn't going to pay it. She's one of the people who thinks they can decide which laws they want to obey. Anyhoo...I let this go on for awhile and then went to the Division of Child Support Enforcement to file a complaint against her. They said "OK, we'll take care of it". A month goes by, still no $$$$. I went back to DCSE and asked what was happening. Same reply. Another month, no $$$.This went on for about 4-5 months. Finally I went to the top guy and asked him why they weren't going after her the way they'd go after me if the roles were reversed. Sometime during the conversation I brought up their now famous "Deadbeat Dads" line. I think that irritated the guy. He said they would contact her again. The guy sent me a letter stating that they had told her they were going to take her car and sell it and pay me the unpaid child support. I told him that having lived with her for 16 years, I knew her well enough to know that she had money stashed in a lot of different banks and that they'd get a check for the full amount from her within a week. Guess what showed up the following week? Yep.Sorry. I gone a long way to make my point here, haven't I? That point being that in divorce/child custody cases, us guys are always scum and the women are always saints.Mudge
    I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
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    adminadmin Member, Administrator Posts: 1,079 admin
    edited November -1
    In matters of child raising men have no rights. As you have seen it is extremely difficult to win custody from the mom, regardless of the situation.Nunn, I applaud your persistence and conviction in doing what is right. Many guys give up because the system is so stacked up against them.
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