Calm enough now to tell this story

Andrew Adams · October 2001

Guys,Let me tell you about an experience that a buddy of mine and I had last night. I'm finally calm enough now to rationally tell the story. At 9:00 last night, I was driving through the Germantown section of Philadelphia on my way to pick up a friend of mine. We were going out for a couple of adult beverages (only a couple, I was obviously driving) and to meet some other friends of ours to shoot a little pool. My friend's home phone is broken, so he usually waits outside for me to pick him up, since I can't use the buzzer which is attached to his phone. I had called him on the cell phone and told him that I was only a couple of minutes away.As I pull over the hill towards his apartment building, I see him running in the street, he is yelling, "Andy, grab your f***ing shotgun." I see two African hoodlums sort of chasing him, and I pull sideways on the street and get the .380 in my hand quick. As I come out of the truck, they took off. He told me what happened right before I pulled up. He was standing on the street when these two guys walked up to him. He said Hi to them and they said Hi back. They took a couple of steps past him and then one of them stuck a 22 pistol in his face and told him to give them his money. He instinctively told them that he wouldn't give them any money and to get that gun out of his face, he then started moving out into the street and I pulled up. He called 911, and in about 2 minutes the cops were there. While I was impressed with how fast they responded, I couldn't believe how incompetent they were. First of all they had no empathy for the fact that my buddy (who has never fired a gun) was really quite upset about having a gun stuck in his face. Second of all, they were more interested in running my Driver's License, inspecting my CCW and my firearm than they were in taking down the story of what happened. I cannot believe how callous these two officers were. Their basic attitude was: you didn't get shot, why are you bothering us? We then went down to the police station so that we could look at some pictures and try to make an ID. The lunacy that reined at the PD was unbeliveable. We got left in a hallway with 15 people who all looked like they were probably going to be locked up within the hour. After we sat for 45 minutes, we were told that the detective we needed to talk to was out on a shooting, so we should come back tomorrow. As I write this account, several things strike me.1. If the punk had pulled the trigger when he had the gun in my buddy's face, the world would short a damn fine man, and someone who is going to be an excellent physician. 2. Thank God that I came over the hill when I did, I guess the cowards didn't relish a fair fight.3. The callousness of the police is sad. It is sad when an attempted armed robbery doesn't get any reaction at all out of the officers. It tells me that they see worse daily.4. I was irritated, but not surprised that they were more interested in finding out whether my gun was legal in every respect than thanking me for being an Armed Citizen who helped to diffuse a tense situation with no loss of life. 5. It is a sad, sad situation when a guy can't feel safe outside his building in a pretty good area of Philadelphia at 9:00 at night. He is talking about moving now. When the good people are driven out by the bad, how is there any hope for our urban areas.6. A guy who was neutral toward firearms is now a lot more inclined to learn something about them. He was not opposed to gun ownership, but last night he was asking me a lot of questions about how to go about learning something about guns. I've offered, and I think he might take me up, to take him home with me in the near future and spend the weekend teaching him gun safety and how to handle and fire a handgun. Fortunately, his home county is not Philadelphia, so he will be able to get a CCW in PA if he decides that being armed is his best defense. I realize that this is a long story, but I felt like you guys might be interested, and besides I needed to tell the story as part of my decompression.

When you want to dial long distance...AT&T, .223, or Jeremiah 33.3?Member:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets

badboybob · October 2001

Andrew that story is not a surprise. You know Philadelph is a socialist city. I hope your friend learns from your instruction and that he gets his own CHL. Then next time the story will have a better ending.

So many guns to buy. So little money.

Iconoclast · October 2001

Of course, if someone had been hurt, it would have been the fault of you & your friend for not recognizing the underprivileged childhood the perps had suffered and acquiescing to their demands. Or some such BS. And no offense to the real LEOs hereabouts, but it's also a lot easier / safer to hassle a law-abiding citizen about their legal firearm & CHL than it is to go looking for bad guys; might cut into their donut break or get them in trouble for 'profiling.'

idsman75 · October 2001

Well, the only Philly cop I know is a damn fine one. She is about 6" tall and built like a linebacker. It is a sad commentary one the fact that the Philly cops probably see worse and your buddy's plight didn't really strike them as odd or even as a very serious incident.

salzo · October 2001

ANDREW- That is horrible. I to understand the incompetence of the Philly police.Right after college I was living in an apartment building. Two weeks after I moved in, the Philly Inquirer ran an article about the worst corner in center city-which was the corner I just moved onto. Anyway, one night I hear this guy yelling, and I hear this other fellow trying to talk calm. The guy yelling was saying "I want my sh!@ The other guy kept saying I dont have your sh!@. Then I heard a ruckus, and I heard a gasp. I called the cops, and they were there in five minutes. About ten cops went up the stairs with their guns drawn(I was thinking how unsafe that manuever was), and they brought one of the guys down in handcuffs. Next came the ambulance, who took the other guy down, who was stabbed and slashed up. All the while, a cop was telling other cops No way in hell he makes it".The cops asked me if I saw it, and I told them I only heard it. Told me they wanted me to go to the station to be interviewed. I went to the station, and I was amazed at how callous these cops were being about this guy who got sliced. I was also amazed, that there were "No smoking" signs all over the place, and half the cops were smoking, and the floor was littered with cigarette butts. I told them what happend, and they said I could go home. I was leaving the room, and the guy who did the stabbing is being taken in. He looks right at me! I asked the cop why the hell he took me out while they were bringing the stabber in. Cop told me "Dont worry, his bail is going to be so high, there is no way he is getting out"Next day, I am leaving my building, and who is standing outside to greet me? The guy who did the stabbing. He asked me what I told the cops, and I told him the truth. That it sounded to me like the guy was trying to force his way into your apartment, and then I heard a gasp. The guy told me what happend, and he was not concerned about what I said.And cops wonder why witnesses do not come forward.

mlincoln · October 2001

Every encounter I have had with Washington DC police, who do a massive amount of hiring based on "diversity" instead of on merit, has been negative. When my car was broken into they wouldn't even send an officer by. Cops on the street can barely speak English and some of them won't even give you directions if you ask.Here in northern Virginia, every cop I've dealt with has been polite, professional, and well-informed. And I say this about guys who've given me big tickets, people I'd have every reason to dislike.When you hire people just because they're a certain race, and when you refuse to run a professional organization with high standards--and, to be fair, when you refuse to pay high salaries--you get lousy cops. There's nothing worse in the world.

concealedG36 · October 2001

mlincoln, you're absolutely correct. And, this is true for not only LEOs, but for ALL jobs. I have many colleagues who got their jobs because they passed some stupid class related to technology. They don't know the first thing about computer systems or computer networks, but because they fit the profile of the individual that needed to be hired (read: minority, female, etc.) they got the job. As usual, 5% of the people doing 95% of the work... (yeah, and I consider myself in the 5% category)

whiteclouder · October 2001

WHAT!! They were smoking? Right there in front of God and everybody, signs all around. Call out the Justice Department, get Reno back in here, the whole place is going to hell. Dastardly cops. How dare they.I'm writing my congressmen.Clouder..

Mom Mom · October 2001

Ref: Smoking under the no smoking signs: Police stations, being government owned buildings, are no smoking areas. The point isn't that they were smoking, the pint is that they were breaking the law. A petty trivial inconsequential breaking, I agree. I also have the sneaking suspicion that the no smoking policy was enforced for "visitors", voluntary or otherwise, to the station. The polcie flouting thier own policy is just a way for them to let it be known that they are so much more special and privileged than the average Joe Citizen. the issue isn't whether or not they were smoking, the issue is double standards; one for police and one for everyone else. While smokling may be minor, so is going 70 in a 65 zone; yet I bet some of those same officers wouldn't hesitate to write tickets for such. Diversity is an interesting issue. While I have seen the diversity issue lead to the hiring of incompetent people in many professions, including law enforcement, I have also seen the other side. I currently work with a Security Lt., academy graduate,great guy, would make a fine officer, a hometown boy to boot. He's filled out the application to take the police test three times. interesting enough, his test notification always seems to show up a day or two AFTER the test. Funny how that works. BTW, he's black. Not that that would have anything to do with anything in a redneck town with an all white force.

218Beekeep · October 2001

City people are like rats,they don`t care about anything,cops included.I hope I don`t make any enemies here,but,crash a plane into their buildings,and these same lousy cops become heros.There are some good ones there,which is the only reason they they should not be flooded for 40 days and 40 nights,and drowned like the rats they are.~Bee Man Of Alcatraz~[This message has been edited by 218Beekeep (edited 10-25-2001).]

salzo · October 2001

Mom Mom- My sentiments exactly.Forgive Clouders comprehension skills. Sometimes he needs a point pounded into his head like a sledge hammer.

5db · October 2001

Andrew Adams, Great save! Submit it to the NRA's Armed Citizens page, this is the type of "gun" news never given ink in the local newspapers.One thing I try to keep in mind, is the 6' rule, that is never to allow strangers under those circumstances to get within 6' of you. This allows some reaction time.

If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website

salzo · October 2001

ditto 5DB. And Andrew a little more advice. After living in Philadlephia, I have gotten into the habit of leaving plenty of space between my car, and the car in front of me at a stop sign. Several times while driving through the ghetto in North Philly, I would pull up behind someone at a stop sign, and they would just sit there for several minutes, sometimes there pals on the corner would come over to the car and have a nice chat. I got to thinking how someone could either come at me from the street, with the car in front working with the bad guys. Leave plenty of room so you can haul out of there, or run someone over.

stanman · October 2001

Andrew,Way to come through in a pinch! I hope I could react the same way.Don't be too surprised by the treatment you recieved from those pseudo LEO's. You have to understand that you're their worst nightmare! Why, if there were too many lunatics out there with the means and presence of mind to come to the aid of a citizen in need, law enforcement would all be riding 3 wheeled scooters with nothing to do but hand out parking citations! 3 friends of mine were in a bar in a small Montana town when the place was robbed by a shotgun toting female and her boyfriend. My friends followed the pair out the door, took the shotgun away from the woman and ran the dude down and recovered the stolen money. They then held the pair until police arrived, quite some time later. The cops gave the 3 "good guys" all kinds of crap for "taking the law into their own hands." They were even quoted in the paper as saying how stupid it was and how people should leave crimestopping to the "professionals". HA!!! If they're so good at what they are SUPPOSED to be doing, why do people like you and my 3 friends need to do it for them!My hat's off to you. You, young man, should take a bow!

mudge · October 2001

Ok...gotta' weigh in here. We've all seen the "To Protect and Serve" on the cop cars. I'd like to have a nickel for every "Troopers are your best protection" bumper sticker I've seen. My beef is with the PROTECT portion of the sign.Protect me from what or who? Any PROTECTION I've ever gotten was from Mr. Colt.Protect me by catching the "goblins"? Sure, they catch some. AFTER the crime has been committed. Then a Judge has them back on the street before the paperwork's done. Yeah, yeah, I know I'm gonna' hear "We can't be everywhere at once!" I don't ask them to be everywhere at once. Just don't prevent mefrom protecting myself. (Read National CCW.)

I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!

BlueTic · October 2001

What Mudge said - and my hats off to you Sir Andrew.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY (this includes politicians)

M.Opaliski · October 2001

I'm glad to hear that worked out well for your friend Andrew, sort of I suppose.The crime and degradation is one main reason that I left Philadelphia, withe no plans to return for more than a visit. I would much rather raise my family where I am now.What part of Philly were you in Salzo? I was born and raised there ... Front St. just off Roosevelt Blvd. in Olney.

Support your RKBA ... MatthewNRA Life MemberTalk Radio Junkie opaliski@hotmail.com TheFirearmsEnthusiast

jadlee · October 2001

They wonder way so many crimes go unreported such as rapes and what not. It's not just the cops, but the whole justice system and the politicians. I think a good solution would be to let citizens volunteer to police there own neighborhoods with guns. They have volunteer fire departments, why not volunteer police departments?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The Libertarian party platform IS the Bill of Rights. ~~~~~James Lee

salzo · October 2001

Matthew- I moved to Philadelphia to go to college, and lived there for ten years . I lived in center city, close to South street, and around Broad street. I moved every couple of years, but the corner I refered to in my original post was 13th and Lombard. My apartment sat five blocks North of the projects,Five blocks South of the "bath house" and homosexual prostitution district, and right next to the only place for a million miles where you could by beer. The beer store was a magnet for attracting all sorts, South and North. I live in the suburbs now, but frequently go into center city for work.On a side note: Anyone who has lived in Philadelphia knows what a rarity it is to find a deli that sells beer. The way the system works in Philly and PA, you have to go to a state store to buy booze, and a bar to buy beer-with extremely rare exceptions. It is interesting to note, the people who owned this deli, were using it as a side business. What was there regular jobs? They were cops (or retired cops)! I am sure that the fact they were cops had nothing to do with the fact that they were the one in a million example who was able to get a permit to sell beer.The first week I lived in the apartment, there was a protest in front of the "cop shop"(that is what the locals called the deli). It seems that a few weeks before I moved in, someone went into the deli with a baseball bat, and two of the workers(children of the cop owners) took out pistols and shot the guy dead. I laughed at these protestors, who were giving these guys the usual rascist spin, saying that it was rascism that was the cause of this poor black mans death. I walked into the deli while they were protesting, just to let them know that some of us were not buying their nonsense. A few weeks later, I was again in the deli, and one of the shooters was there, managing the store. He was razzing with one of the workers, who was black.The manager of the store, said to the black worker; "You better knock it off, or Ill shoot you dead like I shot the last n***** in here who gave me sh!@."Wow! I figured the guy would be somewhat remorseful, not that I think shooting someone in self defense is wrong, but I would just think that it would have some effect on you. And here is this guy, making jokes about how he shot someone.That was the last time that store saw any of my business.[This message has been edited by salzo (edited 10-26-2001).][This message has been edited by nunn (edited 10-26-2001).]

whiteclouder · October 2001

salzo:Guys like you slay me. You will prissify the word s*** and spell out in full something as derogatory as the slang word for a black person.Where the he** are your priorities?Clouder..[This message has been edited by nunn (edited 10-26-2001).]

salzo · October 2001

Whiteclouder- First off, I spell the "derogatory term for a black person" out because it is used quite often, not only by white people, but also black people. Just because some people have decided it is a bad word to use by certain people, does not mean that is a word that would be considered one of the "seven" words you cant say. Watching a movie on television, a black charactur used the word "n*****" and fifteen minutes later, when a white person used it, it was edited out. Sorry Clouder, but I do not subscribe to the politically correct mentality that "some words cannot be used by some people". More importantly, I do not use that word when I speak, nor when I write, unless, I am communicating what someone else said. I think the fact that the cops son used that language when speaking about someone that he shot, speaks volumes about his rascism, and that was part of the point that I was making. When it becomes a "bad" word to use by all(like your favorite bull!@#$), then I will never use it when speaking in public, or on a public forum.[This message has been edited by nunn (edited 10-26-2001).]

Lowrider · October 2001

You don't mean that terrible, vile, derogatory slang word for a black person that every black comedian uses a thousand times in their stand-up routine, to the uproarious laughter of all the black people in the audience? You can't mean THAT word?Get real, clouder. Be careful, your political correctness is showing.

Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.

Lowrider · October 2001

Salzo: I wrote mine while you were writing yours. Looks like we're on the same wavelength.

Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.

whiteclouder · October 2001

Salzo:Spoken like a true redneck and with the added bonus of 'anecdotal proof' that everybody is doing it therefore it must be all right. I think you get a tiny thrill saying the word. Am I right? Just a little?Are you so lexicologically challenged you can't find an alternative? That word hurts some people's feelings. Don't use it, cret$#.Clouder..[This message has been edited by whiteclouder (edited 10-26-2001).]

nunn · October 2001

Let me say this about that.There have never been, nor will there ever be, enough cops to prevent crime from happening, or to be in the right place at the right time to observe the crime take place and arrest the actor. It happens rarely enough to be very remarkable.We will not allow that kind of police coverage in this country. Taxes to support it would be impoverishing, and for what? To support a police state? Fact is, sometimes people have to step up and do what must be done, and hang the criticism. We are accustomed to people doing that maybe a little more in Texas than in Pennsylvania, so maybe we accept it better when it happens. We cannot "officially" encourage people to defend themselves, because then we could incur liability if someone tried it and failed. (You know--"Don't try this at home, kids...") But when some goblin tries to take off a solid citizen, and the citizen turns it around and we are minus one goblin, we all applaud inwardly.Cops do develop a callous attitude about crime, and yes, even about people, because they see so much of it and the worst of people, on a daily basis. When I was doing field training, this was a big topic that I tried to hammer home to the rookies. "At least for the time that you are dealing with the complainant, that crime had better appear to be the most important thing on earth to you, because it is to him." I cannot excuse the attitude of the cops mentioned above. It is just plain wrong.Checking the ID of the volunteer rescuer, and his permint, and his weapon, are not out of line. The cops can't tell who is a good guy or a bad guy by your saying so.The story had a happy ending, and maybe even recruited another gun nut was into the fraternity.I'm happy.

Certified SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of the General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the premier gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net Jesus is Lord!

thesupermonkey · October 2001

Clouder,Amen.Lowrider,It's not P.C. its R. E. S. P. E. C. T.Something this world has far too little of.

salzo · October 2001

Your lack of comprehension skills never astounds me. As stated earlier, I do not use that word, I used it as part of a quote that I heard. So no Clouder, I could not find an effective alternative, because I was using it in context of a quote. I hear that word often, but hearing him say it in that context certainly gave the word considerable weight.Look at this way clouder;Since you are a writer, lets see if this approach works. Using a so called bad word over and over again does not show a creativity with the written word, but a completely pedestrian use of the language.Watch the movie "The Front". It was certainly a leftist propoganda movie, but it illustrates my point magnificently.Through the entire movie, not one curse word is uttered-until the very last two words, when the main character says "Fu@# You". Now everyone who I know who has ever seen this film, remarks about how powerful the last statement of the movie was. It was a brilliant use of a curse word, and the power of it resonates.The only "artist" I know can effectively use a swear word over and over and over again is Martin Scorcese. And Clouder, you are no Martin Scorcese. Your use of the word bullsh!@,over and over again, is boring, to say the least.

whiteclouder · October 2001

Salzo:"Your lack of comprehension skills never astounds me." Compared to your syntax, I'm a genius."The Front" A Woody Allen effort if I'm not mistaken. Need I say more? I suppose you admire Mike Myers as well. I'm not Martin Scorcese? I'm crushed! Drat, I tried so hard. C'est la vie. Who in blazes is Martin Scorcese?Give it up salzo, you're so far out of your league it's embarrassing.Clouder..

Patrick Odle · October 2001

Where is klinton's 100 thousand when you need them. I heard in a round about way that bubba was part owner of several doughnut shops. seriously I know that there are many,elderly,female, weak people out there and even tho I have never thus far faced a problem that any lawman could handle better than me, I fully realize that they do a good job for the most part.

salzo · October 2001

Clouder- Ahh yes. The old and tired "give it up", "you are out of your league", and the correction of syntax- The typical response from the "comprehensionly challenged". I did not expect much more from you Clouder, because you have not demonstrated much more than that in the past.Now you stuck your nose in this clouder, and have taken shots at two items I posted here.I cant help but think that you took these shots, because I said something that got under your skin in a previous post.I have responded to your "criticisms", and the best you can come up with, is to say I am "out of my league" and variations of that.You invited yourself into my league, and unless you want to play in my league, shut up. Enough of that "you are out of my league" battle cry of the "comprehensionly challenged". Enough puppy talk Clouder.

Lightning · October 2001

Clouder and Salzo, Whats the difference in typing n***** and n*****? Anybody thats reads it will say the word the same way and interpt the meaning the same. (The difference is, Nunn will not allow the "N" word to stay here, in any context. Insert by Nunn.) What if all the whites got together and decided we didnt want to be called white anymore? Would your next post read: "The afro-american and the w**** guy" It amazes me that the american people has to be so "correct" from fear of offending someone.[This message has been edited by nunn (edited 10-27-2001).]

p-38 · October 2001

Can someone name me one town or city or for that matter any area, where african americans moved into and the crime rate went down and the property values went up?I have yet to see it.

Patrick Odle · October 2001

THE N word is nothing more than a mis-pronouncement of the word negro which is an established race of people,which the whites have done more to ghange than the negro themselves. anyone that does not want to be called what they are assumes the mantel of hypocracy and becomes willing less than what they were originally, whether they be white, black,yellow, pink, pastel, stripped,or polkadotted.the word * does not offend me although it in no way can be considered a mis-pronouncement of the word caucasion. I merely consider the source and do not waste my time worring about it.A genuine nothing is better than the best hypocrite on his best day. Go ahead brand me racist but know in your heart that you tell a common lie when you call me a politically correct idiot.

nunn · October 2001

@) in this neighborhood. I told him that the (Their Name) were decent people and they had been better neighbors than a whole lot of white people I had lived near. He shut up.

Certified SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of the General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the premier gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net Jesus is Lord!

Calm enough now to tell this story

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