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1911 Carry Safety and Readiness
Arby
Member Posts: 668 ✭
How many of you 1911 folks carry CL (Cocked and Locked with one in the pipe)? I want to be safe but at maximum ready so I always carry CL
It must be what a person is comfortable with since I know some folks carry pipe empty and hammer down.
It must be what a person is comfortable with since I know some folks carry pipe empty and hammer down.
Comments
There are video examples available of people being killed in self defense situations while racking a round into the chamber when they should be putting rounds into the bad guys.
Any handgun I carry will have a loaded chamber, be it hammer or striker fired. The only exception would be a single action Colt or copies of without a transfer bar.
Regardless of what type of handgun I carry, a quality holster that covers the trigger is required.
Cocked, locked, round in the chamber. That means safety on for those of you who dont know what the above means....not trying to be mean, just some folks dont know. That's how it was designed to be carried and is the safest way in my opinion.
I carried one in a chest rig on several run and guns now in that condition. Over 14-17 miles total, plenty of obstacles,LOTS of head down crawling through dirt and mud face down, streams to cross as well. No issues.
YMMV
quote:Originally posted by kidthatsirish
With all due respect, the original design had no thumb safety, it was added for mounted troops to be able to holster safely.
The 1912 Army Ordinance manua(page 16, paragraph two) has an addendum warning to not carry, as we know it, C&L,(it was too dangerous),,,,,,,unless it was an emergency and if carried under those conditions to rotate the gun away from the holster when removing.
I don't think JMB gave a rats behind how it was carried, more like here Mr.. Army carry it anyway you want,,,,,[8D]
It's funny how times and attitudes have changed,,,,,,thank you Mr. Cooper,,,
Here's the original,,,,,,,,,
I'm sure nobody here is talking about a 1911, nobody makes a 1911 anymore to my knowledge so let's keep the conversation about the 1911A1
quote:Originally posted by kidthatsirish
When I do carry a 1911 it's in condition 1
Cocked, locked, round in the chamber. That means safety on for those of you who dont know what the above means....not trying to be mean, just some folks dont know. That's how it was designed to be carried and is the safest way in my opinion.
I carried one in a chest rig on several run and guns now in that condition. Over 14-17 miles total, plenty of obstacles,LOTS of head down crawling through dirt and mud face down, streams to cross as well. No issues.
YMMV
With all due respect, the original design had no thumb safety, it was added for mounted troops to be able to holster safely.
The 1912 Army Ordinance manua(page 16, paragraph two) has an addendum warning to not carry, as we know it, C&L,(it was too dangerous),,,,,,,unless it was an emergency and if carried under those conditions to rotate the gun away from the holster when removing.
I don't think JMB gave a rats behind how it was carried, more like here Mr.. Army carry it anyway you want,,,,,[8D]
It's funny how times and attitudes have changed,,,,,,thank you Mr. Cooper,,,
Here's the original,,,,,,,,,
Yes, indeed.
If I carry my SIG P229 or other DA pistol, it's fully loaded, hammer at rest.
quote:Originally posted by kidthatsirish
When I do carry a 1911 it's in condition 1
Cocked, locked, round in the chamber. That means safety on for those of you who dont know what the above means....not trying to be mean, just some folks dont know. That's how it was designed to be carried and is the safest way in my opinion.
I carried one in a chest rig on several run and guns now in that condition. Over 14-17 miles total, plenty of obstacles,LOTS of head down crawling through dirt and mud face down, streams to cross as well. No issues.
YMMV
With all due respect, the original design had no thumb safety, it was added for mounted troops to be able to holster safely.
The 1912 Army Ordinance manua(page 16, paragraph two) has an addendum warning to not carry, as we know it, C&L,(it was too dangerous),,,,,,,unless it was an emergency and if carried under those conditions to rotate the gun away from the holster when removing.
I don't think JMB gave a rats behind how it was carried, more like here Mr.. Army carry it anyway you want,,,,,[8D]
It's funny how times and attitudes have changed,,,,,,thank you Mr. cooper,,,
Here's the original,,,,,,,,,
Yes that's all correct, but the original design as was released to the army called for cocked and locked. Further, because unlike in combat ops you know when you are going into a "hostile" area , we must always carry as if it's about to be an emergency.
The 1912 Army Ordinance manua(page 16, paragraph two) has an addendum warning to not carry, as we know it, C&L,(it was too dangerous),,,,,,,unless it was an emergency and if carried under those conditions to rotate the gun away from the holster when removing.
. In campaign, when early use of the pistol is not fore seen, it should be carried with a fully loaded magazine in the socket, chamber empty, hammer down. When early use of the pistol is probable, it should be carried loaded and locked in the holster or hand. In campaign, extra maga zines should be carried fully loaded.
i. On the range, do not load the pistol with a cartridge in the chamber until immediate use is anticipated. If there is any delay, lock the pistol and only unlock it while extending the arm to "fire. Do not lower the hammer on a loaded cartridge; the pistol is much safer cocked and locked
page 25 on mine[:D]
quote:Originally posted by forgemonkey
The 1912 Army Ordinance manua(page 16, paragraph two) has an addendum warning to not carry, as we know it, C&L,(it was too dangerous),,,,,,,unless it was an emergency and if carried under those conditions to rotate the gun away from the holster when removing.
. In campaign, when early use of the pistol is not fore seen, it should be carried with a fully loaded magazine in the socket, chamber empty, hammer down. When early use of the pistol is probable, it should be carried loaded and locked in the holster or hand. In campaign, extra maga zines should be carried fully loaded.
i. On the range, do not load the pistol with a cartridge in the chamber until immediate use is anticipated. If there is any delay, lock the pistol and only unlock it while extending the arm to "fire. Do not lower the hammer on a loaded cartridge; the pistol is much safer cocked and locked
page 25 on mine[:D]
Seems to be inline with my post.[?]
Point is, one should carry how they think they will be able to best respond to the threat. That's the beauty of all the designs out there...one for any flavor you may have![:D]
from my interpretation, do not carry loaded= cocked and locked
not to stir up any further, but the original design was not designed to eject a live round through the port
Cocked and locked, the way Remingtontroll should be.
[:p][:p]
Here's the original,,,,,,,,,
I'm sure nobody here is talking about a 1911, nobody makes a 1911 anymore to my knowledge so let's keep the conversation about the 1911A1
That is a picture of what I know as a 1910 prototype.
The 1911 by definition and specification has a thumb safety.
While the Army did not call for routine cocked and locked carry, there were certainly regulations and policies for the use of the thumb safety.
I don't know if anybody is making a 1911 (vs 1911A1) right now, but six years ago, there were several, most notably the Colt Annv series and the $5000 C&S First Year gun.
note the patent date
When I was in the Army I carried a 1911 also(I was a M60 Machine gunner and on a MG team for 2 years to include a short combat operation called Urgent Fury). In the Army we did not carry in Condition 1. We carried in condition 3, empty chamber hammer down full magazine. But again this was not my primary weapon.
When we did CQB with a 1911a1 we would ready the weapon before the operation. I carried a M16 or some other variant for 23 years and it was always loaded with the safety on.
When the M9 came out we carried the Beretta in Condition 2.5(I guess) Hammer down on a chambered round, full magazine and the safety/De-cocker on(Or in the safe/down position). I have jumped with my M9 in this condition.
The chances are I will never need to use it as being retired I can control when I am where but if I ever have to milliseconds will matter
"Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
Otto von Bismarck
Brad Steele
This applies to CCW in this discussion..I don't give a damn about how the military makes soldiers carry handguns. Carrying a gun for personal protection with an empty chamber is a terrible habit that can and HAS gotten people killed..recently too. If you're not comfortable carrying cocked locked or a striker fired gun like a Glock then either
1. Get some training
2. Choose a gun that can be carried safely without being c&l or striker fired(like a Beretta or SIG P250 etc or a DA revolver that doesn't scare you.
You're already at a disadvantage when a bad guy(s) are about to hurt you. Do you really think you will be able to rack the slide and fight.. the answer to most people would be no.
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
I keep one round in my left breast pocket.
Is it buttoned, Barney ???? [:D]
Buttons are easily defeated. I use a safety pin.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by He Dog
Cocked and locked, the way Remingtontroll should be.
[:p][:p]
[^][^][^]
quote:Originally posted by forgemonkey
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
I keep one round in my left breast pocket.
Is it buttoned, Barney ???? [:D]
Buttons are easily defeated. I use a safety pin.
And do you shoot the floor with it while your holstering it?
So you get the safety stiffer to help keep it engaged. But that just slows down intentionally disengaging it. You can thumb back the hammer, or rack the slide just as fast.
If your gun scares you,you don't know your gun,are not proficient with it,
some should stick to just carrying their cell phone so they can call 911.
If your gun scares you,you don't know your gun,are not proficient with it,
+1
I suspect that a lot of the keyboard commandos who advocate "cocked and locked" don't have a lot of experience doing so in any stressful situations. The problem is that "locked" isn't always locked. Chairs, getting in and out of vehicles, clothing, and especially the lower edge of a ballistic vest can easily hit that thumb safety and push it down into the unlocked position. Having an ambidextrous safety doubles the risk. So now the safety is off and you don't know it. As you grasp the gun to draw, you automatically disable the grip safety. You are now pulling a cocked gun with a light trigger pull and it is pointed at your leg, knee, foot, etc.
So you get the safety stiffer to help keep it engaged. But that just slows down intentionally disengaging it. You can thumb back the hammer, or rack the slide just as fast.
No. No, you can't. And if you only have one hand free, it will take the rest of your life to rack the slide or thumb back the hammer.
At least for all but those who train at an extremely high level of proficiency. Oh wait. Those people carry condition 1. Nevermind about this exception.
I suspect that a lot of the keyboard commandos who advocate "cocked and locked" don't have a lot of experience doing so in any stressful situations. The problem is that "locked" isn't always locked. Chairs, getting in and out of vehicles, clothing, and especially the lower edge of a ballistic vest can easily hit that thumb safety and push it down into the unlocked position. Having an ambidextrous safety doubles the risk. So now the safety is off and you don't know it. As you grasp the gun to draw, you automatically disable the grip safety. You are now pulling a cocked gun with a light trigger pull and it is pointed at your leg, knee, foot, etc.
So you get the safety stiffer to help keep it engaged. But that just slows down intentionally disengaging it. You can thumb back the hammer, or rack the slide just as fast.
you obviously never have used a shot timer, or shot match scenarios where you may only have the use of one hand
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by forgemonkey
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
I keep one round in my left breast pocket.
Is it buttoned, Barney ???? [:D]
Buttons are easily defeated. I use a safety pin.
And do you shoot the floor with it while your holstering it?
No, but I dropped it on my toe once and it hurt real bad.
Now I wear safety shoes.
Brad Steele
btt
I keep one round in my left breast pocket.
Now that's funny!!!!!!
So you get the safety stiffer to help keep it engaged. But that just slows down intentionally disengaging it. You can thumb back the hammer, or rack the slide just as fast.
Mr. truthful, you are certainly welcome to your opinion.
I am a cocked & locked advocate.
I carry a Colt .45 Commander every day.
I carry it fully loaded, round chambered, hammer cocked, safety on.
I carry it in a Jim Burke belt slide holster with no safety strap or thumb break.
I have never had the thumb safety disengage itself, or become disengaged by casual contact with any part of my body, clothing or other object.
I am not a "keyboard commando," and I resent the implication that any of us is one.
I am a retired Peace Officer with nearly 40 years of service.
I have carried single action autos, traditional double action autos, double action only autos, (whatever that means) and double action revolvers as duty and off duty arms.
Anything I carried that was double action, I carried to comply with department policy. Being retired, I no longer have to worry about what the Chief thinks.
My duty holsters for my double action revolvers left the trigger guard and trigger exposed, so that one COULD, if one wanted, put one's finger on the trigger as the gun is being drawn. (Horrors!)
The phrase, "That's what makes horse races," comes to mind.
If you like DA or DAO or single action striker fired pistols, then by all means get one, get good with it, and carry it.
I'll acquire and use what pleases me.
Thanks for your input.
When I carry my 1911 it is loaded with one in the chamber and ,with the slide safety engaged. Whatever I carry there is one in the chamber.
Carry yours as you please.
Another vote for 1911 carry, cocked & locked.
If I carry my SIG P229 or other DA pistol, it's fully loaded, hammer at rest.
[^][^]
quote:I suspect that a lot of the keyboard commandos who advocate "cocked and locked" don't have a lot of experience doing so in any stressful situations. The problem is that "locked" isn't always locked. Chairs, getting in and out of vehicles, clothing, and especially the lower edge of a ballistic vest can easily hit that thumb safety and push it down into the unlocked position. Having an ambidextrous safety doubles the risk. So now the safety is off and you don't know it. As you grasp the gun to draw, you automatically disable the grip safety. You are now pulling a cocked gun with a light trigger pull and it is pointed at your leg, knee, foot, etc.
So you get the safety stiffer to help keep it engaged. But that just slows down intentionally disengaging it. You can thumb back the hammer, or rack the slide just as fast.
Mr. truthful, you are certainly welcome to your opinion.
I am a cocked & locked advocate.
I carry a Colt .45 Commander every day.
I carry it fully loaded, round chambered, hammer cocked, safety on.
I carry it in a Jim Burke belt slide holster with no safety strap or thumb break.
I have never had the thumb safety disengage itself, or become disengaged by casual contact with any part of my body, clothing or other object.
I am not a "keyboard commando," and I resent the implication that any of us is one.
I am a retired Peace Officer with nearly 40 years of service.
I have carried single action autos, traditional double action autos, double action only autos, (whatever that means) and double action revolvers as duty and off duty arms.
Anything I carried that was double action, I carried to comply with department policy. Being retired, I no longer have to worry about what the Chief thinks.
My duty holsters for my double action revolvers left the trigger guard and trigger exposed, so that one COULD, if one wanted, put one's finger on the trigger as the gun is being drawn. (Horrors!)
The phrase, "That's what makes horse races," comes to mind.
If you like DA or DAO or single action striker fired pistols, then by all means get one, get good with it, and carry it.
I'll acquire and use what pleases me.
Thanks for your input.
Yup, what Nunn said. Cocked and locked. End of story.