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Remove Importer Marks & Go to Jail?
tr fox
Member Posts: 13,856
Hi all. I have been warned that if I even THINK about posting a question on the experts forum I will be shot on sight, buried, dug up and shot again. So can someone here answer this question to keep me out of jail? (Note: to my critics here, this is your chance to lie to me and trick me into jail)
I have a kinda rough milsurp import WWII (C&R?) rifle and I wish to shorten the barrel from its present 48 inches (haha, just joking. But it sure looks long) to 16.5 inch and install a long eye relief scope and have a scout rifle. But if I cut the barrel down, I will be removing the importers mark. Importers name, city and state, country rifle imported from and caliber of rifle but not any serial numbers. The importers serial number is still on the receiver along with the serial number stamped when the rifle was made.
Give me credit for extensively checking the rules, regs & FAQ on the ATBE forum. I found that the importer must add all that info I mentioned plus the importers own, new serial number on the receiver, but there is nothing mentioned about an owner like myself from cutting/replacing the barrel and thereby removing that info. Any advice?
I have a kinda rough milsurp import WWII (C&R?) rifle and I wish to shorten the barrel from its present 48 inches (haha, just joking. But it sure looks long) to 16.5 inch and install a long eye relief scope and have a scout rifle. But if I cut the barrel down, I will be removing the importers mark. Importers name, city and state, country rifle imported from and caliber of rifle but not any serial numbers. The importers serial number is still on the receiver along with the serial number stamped when the rifle was made.
Give me credit for extensively checking the rules, regs & FAQ on the ATBE forum. I found that the importer must add all that info I mentioned plus the importers own, new serial number on the receiver, but there is nothing mentioned about an owner like myself from cutting/replacing the barrel and thereby removing that info. Any advice?
Comments
quote:Originally posted by hicap47
Technically, it's illegal to remove an importer's mark as it's part of ATF's tracing system......That being said, I've never heard of anyone being dinged for it......Rifles being rebarreled or shortened is one reason ATF now requires import marks on receivers......
Do you have a reference or source to that? I can't find anything. I believe the firearm manufacture, type, caliber and serial number identify it, not who brought it into the country. Barrels are also commonly replaced on military imports for various reasons, mostly to get rid of those awful import stampings. [;)]
GG......My source was a group of ATF JB's manning a booth at one of the local gun shows last year.....A few of us were bitchin' about how import marks ruin otherwise fine collectible milsurps.....They told us "IT'S THE LAW" (in their best authoritative voices) and told us not to be messin' with their marks........
quote:Originally posted by GreatGuns
quote:Originally posted by hicap47
Technically, it's illegal to remove an importer's mark as it's part of ATF's tracing system......That being said, I've never heard of anyone being dinged for it......Rifles being rebarreled or shortened is one reason ATF now requires import marks on receivers......
Do you have a reference or source to that? I can't find anything. I believe the firearm manufacture, type, caliber and serial number identify it, not who brought it into the country. Barrels are also commonly replaced on military imports for various reasons, mostly to get rid of those awful import stampings. [;)]
GG......My source was a group of ATF JB's manning a booth at one of the local gun shows last year.....A few of us were bitchin' about how import marks ruin otherwise fine collectible milsurps.....They told us "IT'S THE LAW" (in their best authoritative voices) and told us not to be messin' with their marks........
I wouldn't take that to the bank. They may be well intentioned, but laws can be complicated. That a type of imported firearm must have certain markings by law at the time of import or while in the possession of the FFL importer does not mean a subsequent nonlicensee (buyer) is prohibited from eliminating the markings. Further, "altering" or "obliterating" or "removing" are each distinct and different things. Just by way of example, it could be illegal to "obliterate" something, but still legal to remove it entirely.
And none of those covers a simple barrel change.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
I say turn it into an SBR and announce that you did on the forum.
If I followed your advice, in ten years or so (about the time I was released from prison) I strongly believe your conscience would start to haunt you.
You will be reinstated in Ask The Experts on the day that all three moderators in that forum agree on allowing you back. Keep in mind that my two colleagues wanted you removed from the site and for me to lock your GB account. As an administrator I am inclined to follow staff suggestions but since it was over the holidays I was feeling generous (falling prey to the Christmas spirit ) and while you are persona non grata in ATE, your GB account remains active...For now [;)]
Mr. Mark, I'll be good. Really, I promise I will be good. But you forgot to mention one party to that "ban the fox" decision. I, myself, asked to be banned and locked out of GB.com. But apparently my reputation has become so powerful all the administrators but you were afraid to mess with me. BTW, why the heck did you have to confer to both of the "colleague" (in red above) from your past to help you decide to ban me? I mean, just how obsessed are you about this "ban the fox" program that you felt a need to confer with your old college professors about me?
Oh, and do you have any advice about removing the importer marks? [:o)]
I was under the impression that after our exchange of emails you were fine with the ATE staff verdict. Dragging it back up here in this forum does not increase the likelihood that your situation will ever change and instead increases my confidence that the correct decision was reached. I wish to hear no more of your plight; your status will remain as it is for the duration of your stay here on Gun Broker...Period.
You are a harsh. cruel man Mark Christian. But what about the importer mark removal?
Imported firearms do not need to have an importer's serial number stamped unless the manufacturer's SN contains other than Arabic numbers. (Many Russian firearms have a Cyrillic letter as part of the serial number.) The importer's SN cannot be altered or removed.
Neal
quote:Originally posted by mark christian
I was under the impression that after our exchange of emails you were fine with the ATE staff verdict. Dragging it back up here in this forum does not increase the likelihood that your situation will ever change and instead increases my confidence that the correct decision was reached. I wish to hear no more of your plight; your status will remain as it is for the duration of your stay here on Gun Broker...Period.
You are a harsh. cruel man Mark Christian. But what about the importer mark removal?
Ahhhh, I love the smell of foolishly baiting a guy trying to do you a favor in the morning. It smells like. . . idiocy.
your status will remain as it is for the duration of your stay here on Gun Broker...Period.
[^][^][^]
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
I say turn it into an SBR and announce that you did on the forum.
If I followed your advice, in ten years or so (about the time I was released from prison) I strongly believe your conscience would start to haunt you.
don't bet on it.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Is it me or are there getting to be more horses * than horses on GB?
many of the good horses got so fed up with the * they ended up getting the boot for their retaliation.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by JnRockwall
Is it me or are there getting to be more horses * than horses on GB?
many of the good horses got so fed up with the * they ended up getting the boot for their retaliation.
Yep
Your research is mostly correct. It is legal to alter or remove importer information (name, city, state of importer, & any other information required by the Secretary) from an imported firearm.
Imported firearms do not need to have an importer's serial number stamped unless the manufacturer's SN contains other than Arabic numbers. (Many Russian firearms have a Cyrillic letter as part of the serial number.) The importer's SN cannot be altered or removed.
Neal
Thanks Neal. Makes sense to me. Case closed
Case closed
Does anyone else find it strange that a member who was removed from a forum specifically for being told by the moderators that a subject was closed, but kept right on posting anyway, would say that?
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Case closed
Does anyone else find it strange that a member who was removed from a forum specifically for being told by the moderators that a subject was closed, but kept right on posting anyway, would say that?
Strange?
Nope.
It's exactly what I would expect.
It's a control issue. [;)]
quote:Originally posted by kristov
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Case closed
Does anyone else find it strange that a member who was removed from a forum specifically for being told by the moderators that a subject was closed, but kept right on posting anyway, would say that?
Strange?
Nope.
It's exactly what I would expect.
It's a control issue. [;)]
Note to self: find more effective way of hiding that I am a controlling hypocrite.
Never said that.
But the fact that you posted on this thread again proves my point. [:D][:D]
Try to go six months without digging up this thread.
Just let it gracefully go to page 40. And die a simple death without another comment.
Hypocrite?
Never said that.
But the fact that you posted on this thread again proves my point. [:D][:D]
Try to go six months without digging up this thread.
Just let it gracefully go to page 40. And die a simple death without another comment.
Well.....ok, I'll try and go six months without......(damn! I just broke my promise) You tricked me, didn't you bigoutside!