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Christian Forefathers...
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Godly Forefathers
TGIF Today God Is First Volume 2 by Os Hillman
Friday, May 08 2009
"The angel of the LORD gave this charge to Joshua: "This is what the LORD Almighty says: If you will walk in my ways and keep my requirements, then you will govern my house and have charge of my courts, and I will give you a place among these standing here'" (Zech 3:6-7).
On September 17th, 1796, George Washington said, "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible." In His Prayer At Valley Forge, he entreated God: "Almighty and eternal Lord God, the great Creator of heaven and earth, and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; look down from heaven in pity and compassion upon me Thy servant, who humbly prostrates myself before Thee."
On another occasion he said, "To the distinguished character of a patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of a Christian."
America was founded as a Christian nation. The founding fathers had a deep faith in Jesus Christ. Today, there is a movement designed to remove God from our history and our foundations. When we do this, America will no longer be good. And when America ceases to be good, we will cease to be great.
England also had a great Christian statesman in its early years. A man named William Wilberforce grew to prominence at an early age. At age 28 he came to faith in Christ and almost chose to give up politics to go into "the ministry." John Newton, author of Amazing Grace, convinced him to stay in politics. He would be credited with 69 world-changing initiatives, not the least of which was the abolishment of slavery after 50 years of work.
Pray that this generation might acknowledge and embrace their godly heritage and God will raise up other leaders who lead from a godly foundation.
I don't see America ever recovering from the downward spiral we are now in but then again, I don't know the plans of God. His Word says that if we shall humble ourselves and seek His face, He will deliver us.
TGIF Today God Is First Volume 2 by Os Hillman
Friday, May 08 2009
"The angel of the LORD gave this charge to Joshua: "This is what the LORD Almighty says: If you will walk in my ways and keep my requirements, then you will govern my house and have charge of my courts, and I will give you a place among these standing here'" (Zech 3:6-7).
On September 17th, 1796, George Washington said, "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible." In His Prayer At Valley Forge, he entreated God: "Almighty and eternal Lord God, the great Creator of heaven and earth, and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; look down from heaven in pity and compassion upon me Thy servant, who humbly prostrates myself before Thee."
On another occasion he said, "To the distinguished character of a patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of a Christian."
America was founded as a Christian nation. The founding fathers had a deep faith in Jesus Christ. Today, there is a movement designed to remove God from our history and our foundations. When we do this, America will no longer be good. And when America ceases to be good, we will cease to be great.
England also had a great Christian statesman in its early years. A man named William Wilberforce grew to prominence at an early age. At age 28 he came to faith in Christ and almost chose to give up politics to go into "the ministry." John Newton, author of Amazing Grace, convinced him to stay in politics. He would be credited with 69 world-changing initiatives, not the least of which was the abolishment of slavery after 50 years of work.
Pray that this generation might acknowledge and embrace their godly heritage and God will raise up other leaders who lead from a godly foundation.
I don't see America ever recovering from the downward spiral we are now in but then again, I don't know the plans of God. His Word says that if we shall humble ourselves and seek His face, He will deliver us.
Comments
What about that thing they wrote in the constitution about the state shall not recognize religion or something like that. Also, didn't the pilgrims come here to worship freely their form of Christianity because there were being persecuted by Christians in their homeland. I say this because a state sponsored religion leads to the erosion of religious freedoms. We're not talking about Muslims vs. Christians. This would be Christian vs. Christian like the UK has been fighting with the IRA types in its various forms off and on for a couple hundred years or so. When you have a theocracy many inherit rights go away. I believe Jesus is my savior, I just don't want someone telling me how, when, and where to pray, that's what moms are for.
I agree with most of what you said, but that does not change the fact that this nation was founded upon Christian principles and we were a Christian nation.
There is no separation of church and state. The Constitution only prohibits a state sponsored religion.
quote:Originally posted by War Pig Actual
What about that thing they wrote in the constitution about the state shall not recognize religion or something like that. Also, didn't the pilgrims come here to worship freely their form of Christianity because there were being persecuted by Christians in their homeland. I say this because a state sponsored religion leads to the erosion of religious freedoms. We're not talking about Muslims vs. Christians. This would be Christian vs. Christian like the UK has been fighting with the IRA types in its various forms off and on for a couple hundred years or so. When you have a theocracy many inherit rights go away. I believe Jesus is my savior, I just don't want someone telling me how, when, and where to pray, that's what moms are for.
I agree with most of what you said, but that does not change the fact that this nation was founded upon Christian principles and we were a Christian nation.
There is no separation of church and state. The Constitution only prohibits a state sponsored religion.
Eric, isn't it funny how such a simple concept of the Constitution merely prohibiting the "gov't" from establishing a religion (state sponsored), or preventing the free exercise thereof, is lost on so many?
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by War Pig Actual
What about that thing they wrote in the constitution about the state shall not recognize religion or something like that. Also, didn't the pilgrims come here to worship freely their form of Christianity because there were being persecuted by Christians in their homeland. I say this because a state sponsored religion leads to the erosion of religious freedoms. We're not talking about Muslims vs. Christians. This would be Christian vs. Christian like the UK has been fighting with the IRA types in its various forms off and on for a couple hundred years or so. When you have a theocracy many inherit rights go away. I believe Jesus is my savior, I just don't want someone telling me how, when, and where to pray, that's what moms are for.
I agree with most of what you said, but that does not change the fact that this nation was founded upon Christian principles and we were a Christian nation.
There is no separation of church and state. The Constitution only prohibits a state sponsored religion.
Eric, isn't it funny how such a simple concept of the Constitution merely prohibiting the "gov't" from establishing a religion (state sponsored), or preventing the free exercise thereof, is lost on so many?
Yes, it is...well, actually it's not...it's quite sad. I guess most folks don't have a basic understanding of the English language...that and the fact that they've been brain washed since birth by the secular anti-God crowd.
quote:
Originally posted by lt496
quote:
Originally posted by ECC
quote:
Originally posted by War Pig Actual
What about that thing they wrote in the constitution about the state shall not recognize religion or something like that. Also, didn't the pilgrims come here to worship freely their form of Christianity because there were being persecuted by Christians in their homeland. I say this because a state sponsored religion leads to the erosion of religious freedoms. We're not talking about Muslims vs. Christians. This would be Christian vs. Christian like the UK has been fighting with the IRA types in its various forms off and on for a couple hundred years or so. When you have a theocracy many inherit rights go away. I believe Jesus is my savior, I just don't want someone telling me how, when, and where to pray, that's what moms are for.
I agree with most of what you said, but that does not change the fact that this nation was founded upon Christian principles and we were a Christian nation.
There is no separation of church and state. The Constitution only prohibits a state sponsored religion.
Eric, isn't it funny how such a simple concept of the Constitution merely prohibiting the "gov't" from establishing a religion (state sponsored), or preventing the free exercise thereof, is lost on so many?
Yes, it is...well, actually it's not...it's quite sad. I guess most folks don't have a basic understanding of the English language...that and the fact that they've been brain washed since birth by the secular anti-God crowd.
That is utter nonsense and not from an objective point of view. To say this country was founded on Christian principles is one thing. To act to engrain those principles into government as it stands now by a few is another and that was my point. No one is persecuting Christians in the USA. And if they say there are, go to Sudan or China. You will see what persecution is. Religion has no place in democracy or republic for those forms of government will cease to exist.
quote:Originally posted by War Pig Actual
What about that thing they wrote in the constitution about the state shall not recognize religion or something like that. Also, didn't the pilgrims come here to worship freely their form of Christianity because there were being persecuted by Christians in their homeland. I say this because a state sponsored religion leads to the erosion of religious freedoms. We're not talking about Muslims vs. Christians. This would be Christian vs. Christian like the UK has been fighting with the IRA types in its various forms off and on for a couple hundred years or so. When you have a theocracy many inherit rights go away. I believe Jesus is my savior, I just don't want someone telling me how, when, and where to pray, that's what moms are for.
I agree with most of what you said, but that does not change the fact that this nation was founded upon Christian principles and we were a Christian nation.
There is no separation of church and state. The Constitution only prohibits a state sponsored religion.
Can't we prevent abortion because it is MURDER?
Can't we stop stem cell research because it is junk science and a waste of money?
Can't we allow people to speak their own minds because we want the same right and it's fair?
Can't we prevent same sex marriages because marriage is meant to promote a family unit for the purpose of raising children and gay sex is not a reason to call a civil union a Marriage?
Christ, God gave people free will, it is unchristian to take away those choices but it is not unlawful.
Christian morals are not enforceable and should not be part of a government or a country that welcomes all comers.
I do not want to go to jail for blasphemy, adultery or Idolatry. I don't think I should be sanctioned for working on the sabbath, eating meat after midnight, taking the lords name in vain or committing lust in my heart.
I tell you, it's time to leave our hypocrisy in the pew at our local mosque, synagogue, church, parish, chapel, or cathedral.
Let people live their own lives and accept their fate. We should worry about our own walk, pray for our own salvation, and make our own peace with God as we know him.
If you fundementalists feel it is ok, then I demand we all be forced to say Hail Mary every morning, at school, under penality of punishment or expulsion. And, at noon, all of your kids will be mandated to read Luthers Small Catechism. Manditory during lunch.
Godly Forefathers
TGIF Today God Is First Volume 2 by Os Hillman
Friday, May 08 2009
"The angel of the LORD gave this charge to Joshua: "This is what the LORD Almighty says: If you will walk in my ways and keep my requirements, then you will govern my house and have charge of my courts, and I will give you a place among these standing here'" (Zech 3:6-7).
On September 17th, 1796, George Washington said, "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible." In His Prayer At Valley Forge, he entreated God: "Almighty and eternal Lord God, the great Creator of heaven and earth, and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; look down from heaven in pity and compassion upon me Thy servant, who humbly prostrates myself before Thee."
On another occasion he said, "To the distinguished character of a patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of a Christian."
America was founded as a Christian nation. The founding fathers had a deep faith in Jesus Christ. Today, there is a movement designed to remove God from our history and our foundations. When we do this, America will no longer be good. And when America ceases to be good, we will cease to be great.
England also had a great Christian statesman in its early years. A man named William Wilberforce grew to prominence at an early age. At age 28 he came to faith in Christ and almost chose to give up politics to go into "the ministry." John Newton, author of Amazing Grace, convinced him to stay in politics. He would be credited with 69 world-changing initiatives, not the least of which was the abolishment of slavery after 50 years of work.
Pray that this generation might acknowledge and embrace their godly heritage and God will raise up other leaders who lead from a godly foundation.
Its amazing how defensive people get (Im not talking about the responses here) when something that is just plain facts are stated. People automaticly bring up seperation of church and state, and take it out of context. Im sure that has been debated here before.
Also, what was the name of the movie about William Wilberforce. It was pretty good.
http://www.kgoam810.com/Article.asp?id=49920
Was the US founded on Christian principles?
No. No it wasn't.
Pharyngula links to the webpage of the Family Research Council, which currently holds a poll titled, "Do you believe that America, as a nation, was founded upon Christian principles?" Due to the Pharynguloid influence, "No" is currently leading at 91%, but that's not the point. The point is that this question should not be asked in the first place.
The US is emphatically not founded on Christian principles. This is explicitly stated in the Constitution, both in the First Amendment ("Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;") and in Article VI, section 3 (".no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.") In addition, the Treaty of Tripoli, itself a legally binding document, bears these words: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
The United States is a secular nation, not a Christian nation. Any claim to the contrary is founded in ignorance of the Constitution, or in delusion. Check mate, I'm afraid, for the Dominionists.
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
Hell, I am Lutheran. I have a real problem with fundementalism. When I moved to Texas I was shocked I could not buy beer on Sunday before noon, so I could cook Brats. I do not believe, and feel it is a sin to make something that is not a sin, a sin. Drinking, dancing, smoking and hunting on Sunday's are not sins. Forcing your religious beliefs on me are a sin.
If you fundementalists feel it is ok, then I demand we all be forced to say Hail Mary every morning, at school, under penality of punishment or expulsion. And, at noon, all of your kids will be mandated to read Luthers Small Catechism. Manditory during lunch.
"Modernism" and "Fundamentalism", when originally coined as meaningful religious terms around the end of the 19th century, meant very different and/or unknown things to most people today.
Drinking, dancing and hunting on Sunday have nothing to do with the fundamentals of the faith.
Drinking, dancing, and hunting on Sunday are always sins if they are not within the will of God for you to partake of such.
They are never sins if it is within His will for you to do so, on any day.
I prefer Luthers saying "All things in moderation". However, I appreciate you telling me that I should bow to your beliefs. Good enough for Luther, good enough for me. Heck, he married a Nun.
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
Hell, I am Lutheran. I have a real problem with fundementalism. When I moved to Texas I was shocked I could not buy beer on Sunday before noon, so I could cook Brats. I do not believe, and feel it is a sin to make something that is not a sin, a sin. Drinking, dancing, smoking and hunting on Sunday's are not sins. Forcing your religious beliefs on me are a sin.
If you fundementalists feel it is ok, then I demand we all be forced to say Hail Mary every morning, at school, under penality of punishment or expulsion. And, at noon, all of your kids will be mandated to read Luthers Small Catechism. Manditory during lunch.
"Modernism" and "Fundamentalism", when originally coined as meaningful religious terms around the end of the 19th century, meant very different and/or unknown things to most people today.
Drinking, dancing and hunting on Sunday have nothing to do with the fundamentals of the faith.
Drinking, dancing, and hunting on Sunday are always sins if they are not within the will of God for you to partake of such.
They are never sins if it is within His will for you to do so, on any day.
I prefer Luthers saying "All things in moderation". However, I appreciate you telling me that I should bow to your beliefs. Good enough for Luther, good enough for me. Heck, he married a Nun.
...if I understood him correctly, I do not believe that is what he was saying at all...quite the opposite, actually.
People keep insisting that the USA was founded on christian principles when IT WAS NOT..The religious would like it to have been and have been declaring it was even against the History of this country..
Was the US founded on Christian principles?
No. No it wasn't.
Pharyngula links to the webpage of the Family Research Council, which currently holds a poll titled, "Do you believe that America, as a nation, was founded upon Christian principles?" Due to the Pharynguloid influence, "No" is currently leading at 91%, but that's not the point. The point is that this question should not be asked in the first place.
The US is emphatically not founded on Christian principles. This is explicitly stated in the Constitution, both in the First Amendment ("Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;") and in Article VI, section 3 (".no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.") In addition, the Treaty of Tripoli, itself a legally binding document, bears these words: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
The United States is a secular nation, not a Christian nation. Any claim to the contrary is founded in ignorance of the Constitution, or in delusion. Check mate, I'm afraid, for the Dominionists.
How would you explain the Christian inscriptions on our money, from the very beginning? The Christian inscriptions on our public buildings, from the very beginning? The fact that several Christian churches are prominent historical place in the American Revolution? And George Washington's farewell address in which he states that Christian religious morals are fundimental supports of the new nation? And warns that your type will come and try to tear them down?
If this nation WASN"T founded on Christian religious principle, they sure tried hard to make it look like it was.
quote:Originally posted by cactuspete1
People keep insisting that the USA was founded on christian principles when IT WAS NOT..The religious would like it to have been and have been declaring it was even against the History of this country..
Was the US founded on Christian principles?
No. No it wasn't.
Pharyngula links to the webpage of the Family Research Council, which currently holds a poll titled, "Do you believe that America, as a nation, was founded upon Christian principles?" Due to the Pharynguloid influence, "No" is currently leading at 91%, but that's not the point. The point is that this question should not be asked in the first place.
The US is emphatically not founded on Christian principles. This is explicitly stated in the Constitution, both in the First Amendment ("Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;") and in Article VI, section 3 (".no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.") In addition, the Treaty of Tripoli, itself a legally binding document, bears these words: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
The United States is a secular nation, not a Christian nation. Any claim to the contrary is founded in ignorance of the Constitution, or in delusion. Check mate, I'm afraid, for the Dominionists.
How would you explain the Christian inscriptions on our money, from the very beginning? The Christian inscriptions on our public buildings, from the very beginning? The fact that several Christian churches are prominent historical place in the American Revolution? And George Washington's farewell address in which he states that Christian religious morals are fundimental supports of the new nation? And warns that your type will come and try to tear them down?
If this nation WASN"T founded on Christian religious principle, they sure tried hard to make it look like it was.
Like the pyramid on the dollar bill? or the 5 pointed star? Yeah..Masonic maybe....Christian? No. The Founding fathers were Diests, not Christian...and Ben Franklin was an athiest.
Let me guess, you've never seen any, right?
Good try. Now explain the Christian inscriptions.
Let me guess, you've never seen any, right?
Like Novus Ordo Seclorum on the one dollar bill?
Or Horus's all seeing eye? Which one?
Good try. Now explain the Christian inscriptions.
Let me guess, you've never seen any, right?
They are actually Diest inscriptions.... (INSULT REMOVED. nunn)
quote:Originally posted by Fatstrat
Good try. Now explain the Christian inscriptions.
Let me guess, you've never seen any, right?
They are actually Diest inscriptions.... (STOP COPYING INSULTS, FORCING ME TO EDIT MORE THAN ONCE, nunn)
So tell me Professor, how can one become educated by refusing to see the obvious? Just because you refuse to see them, doesn't mean they aren't there.
But just to humor you. Why the huge effort to remove what you claim doesn't exist in the 1st place?
I just happen to disagree....it is a civil debate.
So it make me suspicious, kemosabe
People keep insisting that the USA was founded on christian principles when IT WAS NOT..The religious would like it to have been and have been declaring it was even against the History of this country..
Was the US founded on Christian principles?
No. No it wasn't.
Pharyngula links to the webpage of the Family Research Council, which currently holds a poll titled, "Do you believe that America, as a nation, was founded upon Christian principles?" Due to the Pharynguloid influence, "No" is currently leading at 91%, but that's not the point. The point is that this question should not be asked in the first place.
The US is emphatically not founded on Christian principles. This is explicitly stated in the Constitution, both in the First Amendment ("Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;") and in Article VI, section 3 (".no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.") In addition, the Treaty of Tripoli, itself a legally binding document, bears these words: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
The United States is a secular nation, not a Christian nation. Any claim to the contrary is founded in ignorance of the Constitution, or in delusion. Check mate, I'm afraid, for the Dominionists.
That's just where I would get my history information.....from a poll.
Good try. Now explain the Christian inscriptions.
Let me guess, you've never seen any, right?
Nope, I don't any Christian inscriptions..Here and there are references to God, but I don't see anything about Jesus. The God referred to can certainly be the God of Jews, maybe the God of Muslims, who they call Allah, but it is not the God of Christians.
As to founding fathers being Christians, you can find where they refer to God, but where can you find that they refer to Jesus? Huh?
quote:Originally posted by Fatstrat
Good try. Now explain the Christian inscriptions.
Let me guess, you've never seen any, right?
Nope, I don't any Christian inscriptions..Here and there are references to God, but I don't see anything about Jesus. The God referred to can certainly be the God of Jews, maybe the God of Muslims, who they call Allah, but it is not the God of Christians.
As to founding fathers being Christians, you can find where they refer to God, but where can you find that they refer to Jesus? Huh?
I'll tell you what. You show me historical data that proves that the U.S. was founded by people who immigrated here from the Mid East, and I'll accept your explaination that the God they refer to could have been Allah.
But until then, it's pretty obvious to me that since the American people are, and ALWAYS HAVE BEEN, overwhelmingly of the Christian faith. It's a given that the God they refer to is the Christian God.
I'll tell you what. You show me histical data that proves that the U.S. was founded by people who immigrated here from the Mid East, and I'll accept your explaination that the God they refer to could have been Allah.
But until then, it's pretty obvious to me that since the American people are, and ALWAYS HAVE BEEN, overwhelmingly of the Christian faith. It's a given that the God they refer to is the Christian God.
I will be looking forward to his information too.
quote:Originally posted by Fatstrat
Good try. Now explain the Christian inscriptions.
Let me guess, you've never seen any, right?
They are actually Diest inscriptions....(STOP COPYING INSULTS, FORCING ME TO EDIT MORE THAN ONCE, nunn)
[/quote]
The one true religion is only now called Christianity...
St. Augustine
quote:Originally posted by JamesQuinn
quote:Originally posted by Fatstrat
Good try. Now explain the Christian inscriptions.
Let me guess, you've never seen any, right?
Nope, I don't any Christian inscriptions..Here and there are references to God, but I don't see anything about Jesus. The God referred to can certainly be the God of Jews, maybe the God of Muslims, who they call Allah, but it is not the God of Christians.
As to founding fathers being Christians, you can find where they refer to God, but where can you find that they refer to Jesus? Huh?
I'll tell you what. You show me historical data that proves that the U.S. was founded by people who immigrated here from the Mid East, and I'll accept your explaination that the God they refer to could have been Allah.
But until then, it's pretty obvious to me that since the American people are, and ALWAYS HAVE BEEN, overwhelmingly of the Christian faith. It's a given that the God they refer to is the Christian God.
No, it's not a given at all. In fact many of our founding fathers refer to the God of Nature, not the Christian concept God/Son/Holy Ghost.
Whatever the founding fathers believed as individuals, it's clear that many of them were not Christian. Nowhere can you find that Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, to name three important ones, ever claimed to be Christian. Indeed they understood the evil of allowing government and law to be based on religious beliefs, and they wrote that prohibition clearly into the Constitution.
Here, read what Jefferson thought -
http://www.nobeliefs.com/jefferson.htm
They would roll over in their graves at the thought of branding currency with religious dogma.
quote:Originally posted by Fatstrat
quote:Originally posted by JamesQuinn
quote:Originally posted by Fatstrat
Good try. Now explain the Christian inscriptions.
Let me guess, you've never seen any, right?
Nope, I don't any Christian inscriptions..Here and there are references to God, but I don't see anything about Jesus. The God referred to can certainly be the God of Jews, maybe the God of Muslims, who they call Allah, but it is not the God of Christians.
As to founding fathers being Christians, you can find where they refer to God, but where can you find that they refer to Jesus? Huh?
I'll tell you what. You show me historical data that proves that the U.S. was founded by people who immigrated here from the Mid East, and I'll accept your explaination that the God they refer to could have been Allah.
But until then, it's pretty obvious to me that since the American people are, and ALWAYS HAVE BEEN, overwhelmingly of the Christian faith. It's a given that the God they refer to is the Christian God.
No, it's not a given at all. In fact many of our founding fathers refer to the God of Nature, not the Christian concept God/Son/Holy Ghost.
Whatever the founding fathers believed as individuals, it's clear that many of them were not Christian. Nowhere can you find that Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, to name three important ones, ever claimed to be Christian. Indeed they understood the evil of allowing government and law to be based on religious beliefs, and they wrote that prohibition clearly into the Constitution.
Here, read what Jefferson thought -
http://www.nobeliefs.com/jefferson.htm
They would roll over in their graves at the thought of branding currency with religious dogma.
Interesting link. Obviously aimed at Liberal Kool aid drinkers who can be trusted to take it at face value.
But the author had the good sense to include the disclaimer that Jefferson's views on Christianity and religion were so complex that he wouldn't attempt to cover all of them. Instead he would cherry pick quotes that support his agenda that Jefferson was anti-Christianity.
Knowing that if anyone took the time and had the resources to researh these quotes, that many would be found to have been taken completely out of context.
But it is clear that Jefferson was against "Big Govenment". And was highly suspicious and opposed to anyone who attempted employ the govt. beyond minimal control & powers granted by the Constitution.
It wasn't that big of a deal when the country began because most immigrants to the US were christian Europeans (including Catholics). Since WWII, we have had a flood of all sorts of people, with their own religions from everywhere in the world.
Mostly the people who would object to Christian prayer, even something as benign as "the lords prayer" are Muslim or Jewish. In the past we would not have worried about the complaints of these groups but with the sponsorship of groups like the ACLU they have gained sympathy from progressives and a voice in the legislature. The biggest obstaclal to public religion comes from the same progressives who see theocracy lead to hatred, murder and restriction of rights in other countries. They see christians use their principals to discriminate against memebers of our own society. In Muslim countries, they use religion as an excuse to limit music, entertainment of all sorts and women from showing any part of their bodies (so men aren't drawn into the sin of lust).
I agree with the progressives on issues like that, I don't want what I can say or do limited by some preachers misguided, hypocritical morals.
To be Christ like, we would walk through the desert and face the temptations he did, He resisted the temptations he didn't eliminate them.
Christs own mission on earth was to walk among the sinners to spread his word to those who had never heard it. As Christians, thats our job on earth. Not to force people to accept Christ just to share the message and let people make the choice GOD promised when he made man with free will.
People do alot of things I find personnally offensive. My first instinct is to make it illegal but then I don't want the things I do that some might be offended by to become illegal so I HAVE to be tolerant.
The separation of Church and state is not written it is implicit, the Government can not sponsor any specific religion so by allowing one group in school or messages in the text books and not alowing another they are in a sense, sponsoring that religion.
It wasn't that big of a deal when the country began because most immigrants to the US were christian Europeans (including Catholics). Since WWII, we have had a flood of all sorts of people, with their own religions from everywhere in the world.
Mostly the people who would object to Christian prayer, even something as benign as "the lords prayer" are Muslim or Jewish. In the past we would not have worried about the complaints of these groups but with the sponsorship of groups like the ACLU they have gained sympathy from progressives and a voice in the legislature. The biggest obstaclal to public religion comes from the same progressives who see theocracy lead to hatred, murder and restriction of rights in other countries. They see christians use their principals to discriminate against memebers of our own society. In Muslim countries, they use religion as an excuse to limit music, entertainment of all sorts and women from showing any part of their bodies (so men aren't drawn into the sin of lust).
I agree with the progressives on issues like that, I don't want what I can say or do limited by some preachers misguided, hypocritical morals.
To be Christ like, we would walk through the desert and face the temptations he did, He resisted the temptations he didn't eliminate them.
Christs own mission on earth was to walk among the sinners to spread his word to those who had never heard it. As Christians, thats our job on earth. Not to force people to accept Christ just to share the message and let people make the choice GOD promised when he made man with free will.
People do alot of things I find personnally offensive. My first instinct is to make it illegal but then I don't want the things I do that some might be offended by to become illegal so I HAVE to be tolerant.
Very well said. While I do consider myself a Christian. And believe that it is absolutely obvious that the U.S. was founded as, is and has always been a Christian nation. I am not a big fan of modern organized "religion". Or of it having too much influence on political matters.
Our Nation is a Christian Nation, simply because the vast majority of it's citizens are and have always been Christians. So it has naturally followed the Christian doctrine of morality.