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Reloaders: How far do you go?

kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
edited June 2002 in General Discussion
When I get new 308 brass I resize with my machine, trim the length (usually doesn't cut anything, but I check it anyway) uniform the primer pockets, debur/uniform the flash hole and turn the necks then chamfer the ID and OD of the neck. I also weigh my bullets and and group them in to lots of .3 grain (my scale is plus or minus .2 grains, so my actual bullet weight error can fall within .5 grain per round. Also after a case has been re-loaded 3 times, I resize as usual then and check length, trim as necessary. It seems to made a concideriable difference of group size in all 5 rifles in have in .308 ... 2 are bolt guns, 3 are semi-autos.

My 4 .223s are not nearly so picky (all are semi-autos), I just uniform the primer pocket and debur/uniform the flash hole, then run through the Dillon and all will maintain sub MOA without any of the other case work or bullet weighing ... as with the 308's I recheck the length after the 3rd time they are re-loaded.

When I reload 45acp or 9mm, I just tumble and run them through my Dillon. As long as i can hit a 10" plate at 50' thats good enough for me.

A while back someone was asking if case gauges were necessary ... I reccomend them for setting up a tool head and spot checking ... espically if a round doesn't look quite right. If one doesn't look right its probably not but with a guage you know for sure. I don't check every case ... not even every 5th, just here and there.

=================================
The only bad thing about choosing a Kimber ...
... there are so darn many models to choose from!
kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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Comments

  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    kimber, if you see that much difference in group size, I guess it's worth it . . . but it depends on the purpose of the ammo you're loading . . . does the group size difference matter as a practical matter in that usage? If it does, or even if it's just that you think it does, do it. That's what this hobby is about, controlling the fodder Ol' Betsy is going to be eating. My instinctive reaction is more like SP's, but this is a relatively personal thing and you should do what floats *your* boat . . . recognizing that time at the bench is not spent at the range.
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Most of it is done while I'm stuck at home and I can't be at the range anyway ... like in the evening when the wife is working and Abby is taking a nap or playing, I can sit on the couch with a towel on my lap to catch the filings ... I have my case trimmer & neck turner are just mounted on a board I can set on my lap, other than sizing I can do everything else by hand about anywhere. Once the initial work is done, loading doesn't take me any longer than you Saxon ... plus I get results like this target I shot today, with this G3 clone I built:




    Like a lot of people I started reloading for economy ... then when I found I could produce ammo with match accuracy for almost the same as I spent for just blasting, I started looking at group sizes and wanting to make everything shoot sub-MOA ... and as cheaply as possiable. For instance, I recently switched to Accurate powders, I can buy 8 pounds of 2230 for about $60 for 308 and I use 2200 for 223 $50 for 8 pounds. I drive 1.5 hours to Sedelia Mo. where Sierra bullets are made once a year and usually buy around 2500 of each. I can buy 168grain match bullets (.308) for $10 per 100 and 69grain match bullets (.223) for $7 per 100 ... that allows me to make about 125 match grade cartridges for less than what it costs to buy 1 box of 20.

    Here's a typical target shot with my AR-15 ... I know its not for everybody, but I like to tinker with the stuff ...


    =================================
    The only bad thing about choosing a Kimber ...
    ... there are so darn many models to choose from!
    kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com

    Edited by - kimberkid on 06/03/2002 11:15:55
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi Andy!
    Well first you have to up load them to a web server, there are a couple of free ones you can keep 20-30 pictures each on, My favorite is http://gallery.alloutdoorschat.com/main.html or http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/

    Then insert the address of your picture in your thread so it looks somthing like this, only without the stars;

    [*img]my picture address[*/img]

    when someone opens you thread the picture comes up instead of what you actually wrote.

    =================================
    The only bad thing about choosing a Kimber ...
    ... there are so darn many models to choose from!
    kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Andy,
    You almost have it, your code needs to look like this, but with the square brackets [] around img and /img

    {img}http://gallery.alloutdoorschat.com/smoking gun/polytechNM3.jpg{/img}

    Then it will come up like this:



    Nice rifle by the way!

    =================================
    The only bad thing about choosing a Kimber ...
    ... there are so darn many models to choose from!
    kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com


    Edited by - kimberkid on 06/02/2002 09:15:27
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Kimber, respectfully, may I suggest a correction in terminology? You used "bullets" to refer to loaded rounds at least twice in this thread. It interrupts the flow and - no offense - makes you sound a bit like Peter Jennings & the other PC types who can't tell the difference between your clone and an 'assault rifle.'
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  • RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nice pictures Kimberkid, good groups too!......I haven't gone so far as to wiegh the individual bullets yet, but may try that. I have taken great pains to grade out bricks of .22LR with a Neil Jones rim thickness gauge...that certainly weeds out the flyers!.... http://www.neiljones.com/html/rimfire_gauge.html

    Edited by - Rembrandt on 06/02/2002 12:01:17
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Iconoclast
    I agree, and have always had a problem with that, even when I am speaking to someone in person. Would "projectile" read better? It sounds more confusing to say something like "I'm going to go buy some projectiles" ... or would it be clearer to just refer to loaded ammunition as "loaded ammunition"?

    How do you (or anyone else for that matter) make the distinction between "a box of bullets (the projectiles) and "a box of bullets" (loaded ammunition)?

    I don't want to sound like PJ, or any of that crowd for sure!


    =================================
    The only bad thing about choosing a Kimber ...
    ... there are so darn many models to choose from!
    kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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  • Mr. LoboMr. Lobo Member Posts: 538 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    KK, I am trying to get a start on reloding 45's for my Kimber Gold Match II and was wondering what you use. I want to go with as small of a load as possibe to reduce recoil but still allow the slide to cycle. I have cleaned and polished the brass and I am ready to buy the bullet, powder and primers. Please advise.

    Jim
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  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    I tumble once in Walnut (dry) resize, trim, clean the flashole, uniform if a crimped military pocket, retumble in treated corn media, prime, weigh every powder charge, load, and crimp if I have a crimp die for that caliber. Weighing every charge has really made a difference as my Lee perfect powder measure ain't so perfect... it throws charges with a +/- 1.5gr accuracy, and generally underweight from what it should be. For example, I was weighing a load that should have been 35gr of BLC2- not only did the stuff leak out the sides of the dispenser, but it came up as 32.8, 33, 31.5, and 35 grains in a series... one was what it should have been, the others, what happened?

    "...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
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  • gunnutgunnut Member Posts: 724 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Now Kimber, Im jealous!!!

    Nice Rifle and even better shooting!

    The Nut

    ~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mr. Lobo,
    I shoot a light load in my 45's too, I use 185 SWC's and Winchester 231, the Lee load manual I have says to start at 5.9 and "never exceed" 6.1, however I load with 5.5 grains and it functions perfectly ... and "whatever" primers, the last I bought were CCI.

    Jonk,
    Although I've weighed charges I haven't tried one of the Lee Lee perfect powder measures. My guess is that the powder chamber of the measurer isn't getting full ... have you tried tapping on it just before throwing the charge? I do use a Lee auto disc powder measurer for 45's (on my Dillon) and it seems to be accurate everytime I've checked it but its a much smaller charge (5.5 grains). The Dillon powder drop is usually about "plus or minus" .02grain, so I quit weighing my charges.

    =================================
    The only bad thing about choosing a Kimber ...
    ... there are so darn many models to choose from!
    kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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  • Shootist3006Shootist3006 Member Posts: 4,171
    edited November -1
    Kimber: You said quote:Would "projectile" read better? It sounds more confusing to say something like "I'm going to go buy some projectiles" ... or would it be clearer to just refer to loaded ammunition as "loaded ammunition"? But the 'bullet' IS the 'projectile'!

    The correct term would be CARTRIDGE

    Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
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  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    kimberkid, I'm not going to be as flamboyant as some but "cartridge(s)" "ammunition" or even "shells" do the job. "Loaded ammunition" is almost redundant as the only exception would be dummies, which are always so indicated . . . never heard anyone use the term "unloaded ammunition" & that would seem to be a contradiction, as in that state it would be the components. When I see "bullets" I think the projectiles, not ammunition. I expect it from the PC morons, but I cringe when it is one of our own.
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Geeez, I must have had "brain freeze" or something yesterday ... dont know why I couldn't think of ammo! ... too easy I guess ...

    =================================
    The only bad thing about choosing a Kimber ...
    ... there are so darn many models to choose from!
    kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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  • beachmaster73beachmaster73 Member Posts: 3,011 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I just wanted everyone to see the groups again. Beach
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  • rg666rg666 Member Posts: 395 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I use a digital gauge & scale for checking the OAL & weights fairly often when loading match ammo. I am very particular with rifle reloads. I do as Saxon does with the pistol rounds though. RG
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  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Somebody asked "why is group important?" If you do varmit shooting or even long range deer shooting group size is very important. A rifle that groups 3" at 100 yds will not hit a groundhog at 500. Group size insures that the bullet will have the same or very close to the same point of impact each and every shot. If you want to make head shots on deer so you do not ruin meat, how can you do that if the rifle does not hold point of impact? I see guys at the range that if they can hit a 3" circle at 50 or 100 yds they are happy. They then wonder why they cannot fill tags. A rifle that does not group well will wound deer, I don't care if you have a .375 H&H magnum, if you cannot put that bullet where it needs to be you have a wounded animal. When it comes to a hunting rifle, I will not take ANY gun if I cannot atleast cover the 100 yd group with a quarter. If you say group is not important you do not need a scope or a fancy gun, all you need is an open sighted lever action 30-30. people blame little catridges for wounding deer when 80% of the time the gun was not fit to be in the woods. Group size is very important for a hunting rifle, atleast it is to me. For plinkers that is a different story, I don't worry about groups out of my AR CLONES(Hi there JudgeColt!) because 99% of the time I'm shooting them it is just for fun, but I do have a "special" load for them that will shoot 1" at 100yds if I take my time and bag the gun.

    When I load for my rifles and those loads will be used for any hunting, I go ssslllooowwwww. Each and every cartridge is 100% identical, each powder charge is right on, each case length is exact and the COL is perfect. It can take me well over an hour to load 20 rounds for a rifle, but I know when they are done that there is no excuses for them not shooting well. Either the gun likes that load or it don't, no in between. All my handguns use factory ammo except for plinking, I do load speer gold dots hot for my .44 and they go thru the same as my rifle loads. I'm purchasing a progressive(yes I'm getting the Dillon!) so I can load mass quatities of .40 S&W and plinkers for the AR CLONES, they do not need to be perfect, just quality loads. If I need to load hunting/compitition ammo I still have the turtle slow single stage.



    Edited by - 7mm nut on 06/04/2002 13:31:53
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    7mm,
    I think if you get a Dillon you will be impressed with the accuracy and uniform-ness of each round provided you do the necessary case work and weigh your bullets into like groups ... both the targets I've posted above were shot with ammo loaded on my Dillon presses.

    =================================
    The only bad thing about choosing a Kimber ...
    ... there are so darn many models to choose from!
    kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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