FBI needs records?

daddo

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what will the gun purchase records do for the FBI if these records are suppose to be held for 90 days, then destroyed. It has been 90 days or more since the attacks. Wouldn't these records, prior to the 11th. be gone? Or are they? Are we being lied to again? Just another attempt to abuse the system and to "forget about civil rights" out of peoples fears.

badboybob

Do you REALLY think those records have been destroyed?

cpileri

perhaps the lawyers/judges in the forum can answer better: but I would think the evidence would be inadmissible in court, since it was supposed to be destroyed and was thus illegally obtained.Carl

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cpileri

I am thinking about buying up the firearms I want now, so that when (I am not optimistic about the FBI NOT getting access) the feds do get permission to use the database- all info on me will be over 90 days old and, at least theoretically, will be destroyed- perhaps will give some legal leverage if the gun-grabbers ever have their way..."Well, Your Honor, I dont see how they knew I own any firearms since those records are supposed to be destroyed. Is illegal evidence now admissible in the American legal system?????"

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salzo

cpileri- Yes it is.

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Happiness is a warm gun

daddo

If we can't trust them with their agenda- what makes us think they will honor their word in the future. They are the enemy as it may seem. They don't keep their word-= so why should we?

offeror

I thought dealers were supposed to keep certain records for a number of years before destroying. I know the last time I bought a used weapon we had to stop by a dealer and fill out a "transfer", which was the very same form as I've always filled out for a new gun. In any case, I used to have an FFL in the old days, and when the BATF started hounding me for state use taxes and all my records they required that when I stopped doing business I mail them my "bound book," which had a record of how every gun I ordered was disposed of (assuming I didn't still have it in inventory). So they're going to know where they went sooner or later, yeah? Reminds me of RED DAWN, where the invading commander says, 'go to the sporting goods stores and get the firearm forms -- they will tell who has guns.'

boeboe

I'm thankful I live in a state where private sales, person to person, without any requirement for even as much as an ID check are still legal. Used guns (including handguns) can be sold without any background check on a limited basis by private individuals. You can go to a gunshow, see a guy walking around with a gun you like, ask him how much, hand him the cash, deal done. I know there are lots of states that isn't possible.I think the government record system has to be so screwed up it's laughable. I think the government knows it. The biggest thing they have going for them is the paranoia that guns can accurately be traced. Sure, some can, but if someone in law enforcement came to me and asked about a gun I bought 20 years ago (such as who I sold it to) I would laugh at them. I can't even remember all the guns I owned twenty years ago, much less who I sold them to.Here is something else to really consider. If a gun was sold prior to 1969 (when the started keeping the yellow forms) there was not any requirement that any form be filled out when the gun was sold. Prior to 1969 you could order a handgun through the US mail using a bogus name if you so desired. Hence, there is no "paper trail" on guns sold prior to 1969.Further, if a gun that was originally sold before 1969 were to be traded or sold back to an FFL dealer after 1969, the gun is still pretty much untraceable because (in theory) the government really shouldn't ever know that dealer had that gun. Sure, the yellow form may sit in the dealer's file, or even be turned into the ATF when the dealer retires, but unless there was some reason the ATF had to think a particual dealer sold a particular firearm, how would they ever trace it?As an example, suppose I were to pull a gun out of the closet my father bought in 1960 and sell it to an FFL dealer. The FFL dealer then sells it to someone who completes the yellow form and passes the background check. A year later, that buyer drops the gun while fleeing a convenience store robbery and the police pick it up. That yellow form with the gun's serial numbers is still sitting in the FFL dealer's files, but the police have no way of knowing it's on file with that particular FFL. Unless they went from FFL to FFL, digging through all their forms from several years back until the stumble across the right one, they have no way of tracing that gun to the guy who committed the robbery.For the most part, they are psyching people into thinking they have an effective way to trace guns. I suspect the vast majority of firearms originally sold prior to 1969 are, for all practical purposes, untraceable, in spite of the fact that they went through an FFL dealer's hands at some point in time. And then consider the private sales in those states that still allow it. Their system is a joke, they know it, but keeping people paranoid about firearm tracability aids in the effort to control guns in general.Again, I know this isn't the case in all states. But it sure is in several.[This message has been edited by boeboe (edited 12-15-2001).]

luger01

Think about how the government now works. What is the meaning of "destroyed" and "those records"?In all likelihood, the original "records" were destroyed, in compliance with laws. BUT, if information was taken from the original s and put on a computer somewhere - I guarentte you that it is still around and accessible. Even when a computer disk is 'erased', the information is still there and available (no this isn't like deleting files on your home computer - I mean erasing the entire disk, reformatting it!). No, any record that was sent to the government is still available to the government, perhaps not in it's original form, but it's there.Anyone who believes that the Feds comply with the intent of a law is a real dreamer.