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HOW MANY WILL DIE?
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Member Posts: 168,427 ✭
Roughly 41.2 million people, or 14.6 percent of U.S. residents, lacked health coverage for all of 2001, compare with 14.2 percent the previous year, according to bureau estimates released Monday.
The share of the population covered under private, employment-based plans declined from 64 percent to 63 percent last year. "That was the principal cause of the overall decrease," bureau analyst Robert Mills said.
Kate Sullivan, director of health care policy for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce ( news - web sites), said the numbers indicate the need to help more small businesses provide health insurance.
"It's time to create more employer options for health plans and to give those who purchase coverage on their own the same tax advantages as those who receive it through their jobs," she said.
About 23 percent of people earning less than $25,000 lacked health insurance, roughly three times the percentage of those earning $75,000 and above.
Health and Human Services ( news - web sites) Secretary Tommy Thompson urged Congress to approve a Bush administration plan that he said would provide more access to health care to those most in need.
President Bush ( news - web sites) "is proposing more community health clinics, health credits and more freedom for states to extend insurance to those who need it," Thompson said. "As this new report shows, we simply cannot afford to wait any longer."
Democrats have been critical of Bush's proposal to give tax credits to help people buy health insurance. Sen. Edward Kennedy ( news, bio, voting record), D-Mass., chairman of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, said the report was "a loud wake-up call for Congress and the president."
I was in a game site and the above was one of the top stories on the opening page... I think its totally unacceptable in a country so rich, one of the most if not most powerful in the world.. and also the richest.... and so many are without health coverage... How many will die cause they dont have the money to pay?.. or are refused at the emerg?...
Knock Canada all you want, and I will probably be first in line to knock the country of my birth on certain topics, but on health care?.. no friggin way... I have worked in the hospitals in Ontario all my life.. its against the law to refuse anyone treatment in emerg.. and everyone is covered by the health care...Even non residents who need treatment are given it... Sure the bill is sent to the HMO, but if there is none or they refuse to pay... guess what?... the bill is sent to the Canadian government...
Lil' Stinker's Opinion
The share of the population covered under private, employment-based plans declined from 64 percent to 63 percent last year. "That was the principal cause of the overall decrease," bureau analyst Robert Mills said.
Kate Sullivan, director of health care policy for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce ( news - web sites), said the numbers indicate the need to help more small businesses provide health insurance.
"It's time to create more employer options for health plans and to give those who purchase coverage on their own the same tax advantages as those who receive it through their jobs," she said.
About 23 percent of people earning less than $25,000 lacked health insurance, roughly three times the percentage of those earning $75,000 and above.
Health and Human Services ( news - web sites) Secretary Tommy Thompson urged Congress to approve a Bush administration plan that he said would provide more access to health care to those most in need.
President Bush ( news - web sites) "is proposing more community health clinics, health credits and more freedom for states to extend insurance to those who need it," Thompson said. "As this new report shows, we simply cannot afford to wait any longer."
Democrats have been critical of Bush's proposal to give tax credits to help people buy health insurance. Sen. Edward Kennedy ( news, bio, voting record), D-Mass., chairman of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, said the report was "a loud wake-up call for Congress and the president."
I was in a game site and the above was one of the top stories on the opening page... I think its totally unacceptable in a country so rich, one of the most if not most powerful in the world.. and also the richest.... and so many are without health coverage... How many will die cause they dont have the money to pay?.. or are refused at the emerg?...
Knock Canada all you want, and I will probably be first in line to knock the country of my birth on certain topics, but on health care?.. no friggin way... I have worked in the hospitals in Ontario all my life.. its against the law to refuse anyone treatment in emerg.. and everyone is covered by the health care...Even non residents who need treatment are given it... Sure the bill is sent to the HMO, but if there is none or they refuse to pay... guess what?... the bill is sent to the Canadian government...
Lil' Stinker's Opinion
Comments
Socialized medicine, as envisioned by Hillary and the liberals, will drain everyone's pocketbook with no improvement over what is available now. The United States has the best health care of any nation anywhere on this planet, bar none.
Drain the pocket book?.. Any person in Canada that has a job pays into the Health Insurance Plan.. its not much a week.. but it still comes off.... hasnt drained anyone's pocket book... and there are NO HOM"s telling you what procedure you can or cant have.. what dr you can or cant see...
Funny how a person on welfare in Canada can have the same specialist that a big tv personality can have... and the thing is.. that tv star didnt pay for her surgery.. the canadian gov't did... her HMO refused.. How do I know?.. I was working in the hospital at the time she was brought in thru emerg...
The best health care huh?.. then why is it 41 million dont have health care?.. sure they have free clinics.. but what about if they need surgery?... free hospitals?... yea sure.. when dead ducks fly backwards..
Lil' Stinker's Opinion
Edited by - BlackRoses on 09/30/2002 14:43:47
IF A GOVERMENT'S OPPRESSIVE, THEN REPRESS IT!!
if your going to be a savage, be a headhunter
And what people really don't understand is how socialized medicine will kill the research and development efforts--and the better cures they provide.
I'd argue that the problems with medical expenses/health insurance costs being "out-of-reach" for so many is largely already the consequence of government involvement in the healthcare system. More government control in healthcare won't solve anything, it will only make it worse.
Then start considering the risks to overall liberty when the government controls your healthcare.
Roses, consider Classic needing his recent surgery; he's put on a government waiting list; a cross reference check with ATF indicates he's one of those "bad people" who owns guns (remember CDC considers "guns" a "health risk", so the check with ATF would be a legitimate "medical concern"); next thing you know, he's constantly slipping to the end of the waiting list.
Do you want your government to be dispensing healthcare to you? I sure as hell don't!
AlleninAlaska
http://www.outdoor-o-rama.com
He who dares not offend cannot be honest.
-- Thomas Paine
instead of opting in to the system. Socialism has never worked and never will work. Everything has a price and someone has to pay the bill. You don't see people dying in the streets of America for lack of health care.
Real men use little bullets.
I am paraphrasing you, BlackRoses - Why should anyone,in this land of abundant blessings, go without (fill in the blank) -
1) Hospitalization Coverage
2) Prescription Medications
3) Free Education
4) Shelter from the Elements
4) Free or very affordable Child Care
5) Dental Care
6) Subsidized Nursing Homes for the Elderly
7) Food for the Hungry, Especially the Children
8) Free or subsidized Public Transportation
I'm missing a few, I'm sure. No one on this Board would agree that a child should go hungry for lack of money to buy food, that an elderly person should be thrown out on the street because he or she can't pay the rent, that people should suffer from diseases easily treated with available medications, etc. No rational person believes these things. The disagreement begins when we try and decide HOW to deliver these services. Government has proven itself to be grossly inefficient in these matters. Look at the "War on Poverty" and the billion$ thrown at that issue. What do we have 40 years later? Headstart. Great program, but not much else survives from the "Great Society."
So we should rely on the largesse of the private sector? Very chancy. When times are good, everyone helps out. Economic downturns, inevitable in a free market, cause charitable contributions to dry up.
I don't know what the answer is. Maybe their isn't one. These problems have sure been around for a while and don't look like they're going away anytime soon.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
Real men use little bullets.
Edited by - 7mm nut on 09/30/2002 22:22:38
Governments HAVE NO MONEY, except what they TAKE from citizens (usually in the form of taxes). I do not want BR or anyone else, planning to increase my taxes for their noble causes. Where would it end? A nice, safe government house to live in, with a nice, guaranteed government job to pay for government health care, government drugs and government cheese? Sounds slightly communistic. To quote Merle Haggard..."Eating rainbow stew with a silver spoon underneath those skies of blue, we'll all be drinking that free bubbleup and eating that rainbow stew".
I Know this to be the Truth because she Promised to do it Ten Years ago.
Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
I am not saying that Canadas system is the best.. but I am not saying its the worst either.. it is by far better than the HMO"s here..Sure we pay into the system in Canada.. it comes off our checks.. but if you arent working you are still entitled to the same health care that someone who is working has....Anyone on disability or welfare gets meds free as well...And you are NOT refused for any pre-existing conditions....Waiting periods exist yes.. but it comes under the heading of priority... in other words.. who needs it more?..
As for meds.. you can buy other coverage thru your workplace that provides drug plans.. optical plans, dentist plans...its all available ...
BUT.... the federal government pays prescription drug costs for veterans, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the military, and First Nations (natives)
And seniors?.. well the paragraphs below will explain the cost to seniors for drugs in Ontario.. and the rest of the provinces are similiar in costs to seniors...IT was taken off the ontario ministry of health page..
You may be asked to pay up to $2 per prescription if you are:
a single senior with an annual net income of less than $16,018
a senior couple with a combined annual net income of less than $24,175
receiving general welfare benefits or family benefits
receiving home care professional services
a resident of a nursing home, home for the aged, home for special care
a Trillium Drug Program beneficiary
You will be asked to pay the first $100 in prescription drug costs each year and then up to $6.11 for each prescription after that if you are:
a single senior with an annual net income of more than $16,018
a senior couple with a combined annual net income of more than $24,175
If you are aged 65 or more, you only need your Health Card to show your eligibility for Ontario Drug Benefits when you go for prescription drugs.
Why not take the best of both systems and form the best one?...one that would cover everyone, yet still have HOM's or private coverage for those who want it, drug plans.. etc..
The health coverage for people in Canada is paid for by the people in Canada.. as I have stated.. it comes off the checks...
Lil' Stinker's Opinion
Edited by - BlackRoses on 09/30/2002 23:37:15
NRA MEMBER
Take for example the drug companies. In 2000, they spent more than $15 billion on sales promotion and administration costs, and decreased the money for research & development. Many of the new drugs you see advertised on TV are no better than their older, less expensive counterparts. Change the flavor a little and now you can charge a lot more for the "new, improved model."
What really scares me is what is coming out of the medical schools these days. I'm not exactly sure what they're teaching, but it isn't medicine. On the average, during 4 years of medical school, the average med student receives 1 hour, yes 1 hour of training on pain management. Doctors rely way too much on drug reps for their information and most reps tend to bend the truth or just not mention the side effects of many popular prescriptions. If you spend as much time as I do in clinics and offices you begin to see that the demographics of your average drug rep is mid-20's, usually blonde, attractive, female. They generally buy lunch for the office staff, including doctors in order to be able to pass out samples or an invitation to a cocktail party at the upcoming medical convention.
Go to an HMO office. Look at the expensive furniture, nice company cars, big expense accounts, etc. The wealth of medicine has shifted from doctors to bean counters. I, for one, am sickened by the thought of a weasle bean counter deciding what type of therapy I deserve based on my plan.
I know I'm rambling here but there isn't enough room on this website to describe the horror stories and the financial abuse that goes on in medicine. The whole system has to be blown up and rebuilt from the ground, up. No simple fix can do it.
Bottom line, soon we will no longer be the leader in medicine. Our doctors are either overworked or too stupid to deliver good medicine.
Put that $15 billion in marketing back into research & education, and maybe we can see some improvement. One last interesting fact...in the last 30 years, with the supposed billions of dollars used to research cancer, the survival rate for cancer patients overall has not improved at all. A few types of cancer have seen what is referred to as a durable remission, meaning they might keep you alive a little longer, but "cure" is not in the cancer dictionary unless you're talking about an early skin cancer. All the "improvements" in breast cancer, for example, are at the diagnosis end, not the cure. We can find them earlier, but it doesn't really make a difference in the long run because the treatments aren't very effective. Same is true for prostate cancer, we find it, but the treatment doesn't really cure anything. The latest recommendation on prostate cancer from the New England Journal of Medicine is that perhaps we should stop looking for it so hard. We really can't do anything about it other than cause a lot of pain and suffering for the patient.
Sorry for the rant, I don't know the answer and it frustrates me to know that too many people are profiting off of our misery. But every person on this planet should be given the opportunity for medical help when they need it.
*If there is one gun for every 7 people in the world, I'm saving alot of people money*
If you know you will get a "free" ride whether you contribute or not, the attidude starts to change.
We need to triage emer. rooms. If it aint bad, go to your own doc and pay HIM. If you are in need of emer treatment, then you should get care. Cost of being in the hospital biz.
If I could do it, I would pay for major med ONLY. Sniffle visits would come out of my pocket. Id be WAY ahead, and have the coverage that I need.
I have family that have worked on the Gov. side of health care since I was a little kid. They are pretty free with my money to. They no longer bring up what nifty program their "team" has dreamed up in front of me, because I tend to remind them of where the Gov money comes from, vocally.
Oh, and to answer one question, no, you do not have a right to health care, prescriptions, kid care, transportation, or a place to sleep for that matter by having the Gov steal what is mine and give it to others.
There should be BASIC (very) services provided to those down on their luck. Not cradle to grave lifestyles created from the redistribution of wealth
Those people who see nothing but grey areas, no black and white, are lost in the fog.
aaaah-mennn!
barto
the hard stuff we do right away - the impossible takes a little longer
to any cause you like, but keep your socialist government/money grubbing hands out of my paycheck!!!
***There's a difference between living and living well!***
. I agree Canada's system is not the answer.. but then neither is the states system... Why not take the best of both and make the best health care system?
Thunderbolt.. people die because they cant afford the hospital fees so they dont have the necessary surgeries... the plague?... no health coverage or one that has a co pay so high that a 10 day hospital stay will bankrupt them...
As for taking your tax money.... funny how you have tunnel vision... I have stated 3 times I believe, that the system in Canada is PAID FOR BY CANADIANS .... AND NOT IN TAXES.. ITS DEDUCTED OFF THE CHECKS UNDER OHIP PREMIUMS... just like blue cross etc..
Lil' Stinker's Opinion
Edited by - BlackRoses on 10/01/2002 13:11:59
Individual responsibility and choice. These are what get you what you need/deserve and if you plan right--what you want. We are not a Democracy/Socialistic state, but we are headed down that slippery slope being guided by those who will trade freedom for security.
PS to Black Roses: Do you have a choice to pay in to the program or is it mandatory? If it is taken and you can not decline then it is a tax. If you can decline it, then I stand corrected.
***There's a difference between living and living well!***
Edited by - susie on 10/01/2002 13:38:38
afford it, just go to Canada, "where you can get it free (?)".
But, DONT BRING YOUR GUNS to Canada when you move.
And if you wish to see "U.S. Govt. paid hospitals" check out the
Vets. Admin Hospitals to see poor results from Big Brother. As a WW 2
partialy disabled vet, I dont use them. Even though it hurts financaly, I pay for my own hospitilization and have a choice of
doctors and hospitals.
If you have other private coverage, you also dont need the gov't one.. so you have your choice..
Lil' Stinker's Opinion
Edited by - BlackRoses on 10/01/2002 15:47:41
***There's a difference between living and living well!***