Damascus shotguns - worth anything?

Iconoclast

I expect the answer is "no." I have four immaculate damascus barrel shotguns which came down through my family, although I know the provenance on none of them. One is a Charles Daly (although I doubt it has any relation to the present day firm), one a Parker - have no clue as to the grade, one a Hopkins and Allen (whoopee!) and the last a Lefever. All 12 gauge.

Do you dealer types know of any market for these relics? I can't see hauling them to some new home as I'm not going to use them and they have little sentimental value. Any suggestions as to where I might find values?

"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain)

22WRF

Very dangerous too fire.
Send them all to me for proper disposal

" Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession.
I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first".
(Ronald Reagan)

n/a

Some of the old Damascus guns have collector value, I will see what I can find in some of my books..



"I dont care how thin you make a pancake, it still has two sides"

"A wise man is a man that realizes just how little he knows.

v35

I'll save you from your Parker.
Drop in at your local Barnes and Nobles and peruse the Doubles Journal.
You'll see the better Damascus guns are sought after and shot.
Chas Semmer is a regular contributer and an expert on Damascus doubles
especially Remingtons.
I love my 1889 Damascus high grade hammer Remington. It really hits at the trap range.
PS Where are you moving to?

H.S. 10-X

I don't think they're dangerous to fire as long as you load them with black powder and not smokeless.


"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know"- Kansas

rldowns3

I have no clue as to the value....in fact I have nothing of value to add to this thread....I don't know why I clicked on the reply button.....It's just one of those things I guess. Although, I feel as though I should add something to the thread since I did click "reply". So, I guess I'll add to the thread some words of experience and wisdom passed down to me from my old man and uncle...who were gunsmiths. I would say...hrmmm....don't shoot modern factory ammo in them. OK.

woodsrunner

I have a damascus L.C. Smith I shoot on occasion with home made bp rounds in brass cases. Condition is everything. If your Daly is real English and not a Belgian ripoff it may be worth more than you think. The Parker has decent value regardless of grade, of course fluid steel is worth alot more than damascus. If the LeFever is a higher grade one from the pre Ithaca days it could bring a decent price. As for the H&A, the company made both quality and economy grade guns. Unfortunatly the Better guns have pretty much been tainted by the later cheap guns.

Hang the barrels from a string and "ring" them with a plastic mallet. If they thud the solder that holds everything together is probably corroded and weak. If they ring clear like a bell and have minimal pitting I would consider them safe enough for light bp load experimentation. Considering that everything else is tight and in order. I know I don't need to tell you chamber length is a critical. Also if you really want to make them frequent shooters, sub gauging them with a Savage fourtenner tubes or a set of Brileys would be a smart thing to do. Sleeving is an option also, but in the mind of some destroys origionality.

I really haven't watched the prices in auctions for these guns, though I am an admirer of them. Really this is one time when you have to hold them in your hand to set value to them. Rough guess from shopping for them. The H&A at best is probably a $150.00 gun. The LeFever if it's a field grade and shootable $175.00-$250.00, more for higher grades. I haven't seen a Parker under $500.00 in over ten years fluid steel or damascus. Thier following and mystique is that strong. I know if it's English the Daly was a upper middle market brand. Probably in line with our L.C. Smiths and High end Ithaca's.

I'd find them very interesting if any of them were hammer guns. I had a 16 gauge Stevens hammer gun when I was a kid and to this day regret trading it off.

Woods

woodsrunner

I should add that I was talking about tight guns. A couple years ago I could have bought an old Colt hammer gun for $75.00. The bores were darker than a sewer and it seemed parts would fall off if I shook it. I passed. I've seen a bunch of others for $50.00 in similar condition.

Woods

woodsrunner

Maybe you should take a look at these sites. Hopefully David won't poof them. I'm posting them as reference not to promote them. There is a very dedicated group of people out there shooting quality damascus guns. They aren't blowing themselves up, maybe because they are dedicated to the guns and properly load for them and maintain them.

http://www.hillrodandgun.com/invent.htm

http://www.thadscott.com/

http://www.gunshop.com/dgj.htm

Woods

nord

In a word... YES!

The H&A is a utility gun, but the rest are at least several tiers above. As stated, designed for black powder and should only be used with such. Safe if in good mechanical condition.

Values will be about 30% lower than guns with fluid steel tubes.

Nord

Iconoclast

Guess I will need to do a lot more research! From the answers here, these are not quite the "wall hangers" I expected they would be. Wish I knew who in the family had owned them, I'd be more inclined to keep them.

Thanks for all the advice and leads.

22WRF & v35, I do believe you've been into the wild mushrooms again . . . . [;)][:D]

"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain)

v35

Wild mushrooms? Maybe I just read and do more.

matwor

I read this post last night but family stopped by and I didn't get a chance to reply. Heres my .02 for what its worth and sometimes I wonder if its even worth the aforementioned.

Do your research and find out, the Blue Book was very surprising to me, on the Parkers especially. If they were involved with family at all, then I myself would hang on to them. This of course is if extreme financial problems dictate otherwise.

Good luck and let us know what you find out about them. I bet you'll be surprised.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Edmund Burke

Iconoclast

I may keep the Parker, actually, but there's no need to haul three other antiques of unknown provenance about. I collect ammo, not guns. With the exception of two true antiquities which have a family history, I've sold off all the firearms I inherited which are not tools or of known provenance.

matwor, I'm already surprised, believe me.

v35, the mushroom reference was in regard to your offer to "save" me from the Parker - [;)] - and the intent of the line was in the same spirit of levity. If my comment gave offense, my sincere apologies; it was meant purely as a smiling GTH with no insult in mind.

"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain)

v35

Iconoclast- Apology accepted. Before relegating High grade Parkers, and any other well made Damascus shotguns to wallhangar or blackpowder status, I would urge you to read "Finding out for Myself"by Sherman Bell in The Double Gun Journal of Summer 2002. It's a scientific article showing pressure curves of several smokeless powders superimposed on black powder curves for selected handloaded 12 gauge loads. In some cases smokeless pressure at any point along the barrel is less than or equal to black powder pressures while velocities are comparable. The author used strain gages along the barrels do obtain his data. He regularly shoots all his old shotguns (in good condition) with his smokeless loads.

woodsrunner

v35; I have that article. Many of the high end brit guns pass nitro proof quite easily. The main reason I stay with bp is it's difficult to overload a shell with bp and a traditional wad column. A small overcharge of smokeless would quickly destroy many guns.

I really think damascus guns got thier reputation more because shooters ignored or just weren't aware that the chambers are much shorter.

Besides I just like the stinky stuff.[:o)]

Woods

jjmitchell60

Iconoclast, you have gotten some excellent advice on the damascus guns. The only thing I will add is of course the Parker will command a excellent price just because it is a Parker! As to the others, all are more than wall hangers. Shoot them with light BP loads that they are intended for and you will enjoy them. What woods stated about the mallet, I have seen it done with variations and it does "ring" true! I do know of some that shoot the damascus in Cowboy action shooting and love them. I have a friend that is heavy into it in this area so I will ask him his opinion as to what they would be worth as well. You might be suprised as to their value!

"we are but men... no more, no less..."

Iconoclast

Thanks yet again, folks. I'm going to "ring" the barrels shortly and try to ascertain the values. I did chase down the Parker; it's a GH and in super nice condition if the barrels are good. I think I'll likely keep that one. I do have one Damascus barrel weapon not for sale at any price - many stories in our family history revolve about it. I wouldn't shoot it under any conditions, but it goes over the mantle / on the wall for its sentimental value and reminder of the personalities of at least two generations of ancestors.

When / if I list these for sale, I will contact those who've expressed an interest directly (being mindful of the posting guidelines) because if I should decide to sell them, I would prefer they go to my friends here rather than some anonymous bidder.

"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain)