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If the USA is attacked again

Compact_KidCompact_Kid Member Posts: 257 ✭✭✭
edited October 2004 in General Discussion
Do you think Americans would attack Muslim holy sites if our country was attacked again? For the last week I have seen TOO many cops protecting Muslim schools and mosques in New York City and the surrounding suburbs. I know on 9-11 some of these sites showed pleasure because of the attacks but something must be going on since they stepped up security.
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Comments

  • jujujuju Member Posts: 6,321
    edited November -1
    quote:Do you think Americans would attack Muslim holy sites if our country was attacked again

    Not if Kerry is elected and the liberals have their way.

    We will all join hands and sing kumbyyah while lamenting the loss of a single child that could occur if we did anything about the attacks[}:)]

    Then we will have to go into 2 or 3 years of negotiations with our "partners" and if they dont want us to then we cant and wont.

    And of course lets remember that even if our partners say ok, we have to do it in a more "sensative" manner. Cant use all that nasty old body armor and bombs and things, its just not fair.

    Nope, we will put a few token UN troops in harms way, not give them any bullets and when some of them get killed we will pull the rest out and then say " Well, we tried", now time for more taxes to pay for it.

    JuJu(who thinks this isnt far from the truth)
  • Ray BRay B Member Posts: 11,822
    edited November -1
    Your question shouldn't read IF US is attacked again, it's WHEN the US is attacked again, what will our response be?
  • gunrunner68gunrunner68 Member Posts: 582 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    All I know is I'm in. Lets show those Bast$$$s what where made of Let THEM THINK what going to happen next............

    "I did not get where I am today by worring about what I did last night"
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    Why would we attack Muslim holy places if we were attacked?

    If we don't know who and where the enemy is, other than an unspecified THEM, how can we pick out an appropriate target for retaliation?

    I recognize our troops have been trained by the Israelis, but I don't think bombing a civilian target ala Israel to show resolve and/or anger is justified--either militarily or morally.

    Just lashing out, as many here often do, is useless and wastes effort.



    Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have to agree with HAIRY...sort off. The City of Mecca is the most holy city to the followers of Islam and it sits in Saudi Arabia...not exactly an out and out opponent of the United States. Drop a couple of smart bombs into Mecca destroying the city and at the very least we'll never see another drop of oil in my lifetime. More to the point, there are 280 miilion of us here in the United States and 1.1 billion followers of Islam around the world the vast majority of whom are, luckily for us, peaceful and their societies fragmented. That situation changes in a heartbeat after the first missle detonates in Mecca and we will suddenly be in a world wide conflict standing totally alone with no support from anyone. Since there exisits no political or popular will within the United States to take on and to rule the entire world, we gain nothing and lose everything.

    So far as too many police protecting school and religios centers like mosques, well isn't that what the police are supposed to be doing? Exactly how well received were the church burnings of the South during the 1950's and early 1960's among the people in the rest of the United States? How many enjoyed seeing black children threatend, insulted and terrorized on their way to school? What were the opinions of people sitting at home watching TV who saw police standing by and doing nothing while civil rights marchers were dragged out of line and beaten? Those incidents did not do much to further states rights did they? They did put the Civil Rights Act on the fast track though! Having the police fail to protect schools and mosques in NY would have the same effect among otherwise disinterested Americans who may well begin to feel sorry for the Muslims much like previously disinterested whites in northern states discovered a new found sympathy for blacks protecting their rights.

    "Nothing can ever be made 'idiot proof' because idiots are simply too clever"!
    Mark T. Christian
  • john carrjohn carr Member Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good thing we didn't feel this way December 8, 1941. If we were lucky we'd be speaking German. If not, then Japanese.
  • rldowns3rldowns3 Member Posts: 6,096
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Compact_Kid
    Do you think Americans would attack Muslim holy sites if our country was attacked again? For the last week I have seen TOO many cops protecting Muslim schools and mosques in New York City and the surrounding suburbs. I know on 9-11 some of these sites showed pleasure because of the attacks but something must be going on since they stepped up security.


    If America is attacked again we (I say we as in our government and lobbyists since they neither listen to the people nor care about the people) will do the same old song and dance and pass a few new laws, lose a few civil liberties, and in the end, not do too much.

    Sorry for being pessimistic, but I can't help it.

    dncbandaid.jpgwhipass.jpg
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    john carr: Both the Japanese and Germany were states, not a group of indistinguishable people hiding out in different countries. There were Japanese and German targets. Which terrorist targets are you suggesting we could attack?

    Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
  • dongizmodongizmo Member Posts: 14,477 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    If they are using the holy site for a shield, like they are doing in Iraq, then we should destroy it, once it harbors combatants it becomes a target.
    Don

    "Anybody but Kerry"
    eng.JPG
    Welcome to America...Now speak English.
    ````````````````````````
    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools.
  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000
    edited November -1
    If the US is attacked again, there will undoubtedly be some attacks on Muslim Americans and/or their holy sites and even homes. There will also undoubtedly be men wearing uniforms of various police departments who will put themselves between the mobs and the victims to protect them. This is the great difference between our enemy and us.

    How you doin'!
    wolf_evil_smile_md_wht.gif

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    If the Army and the Navy
    Ever look on Heaven's scenes;
    They will find the streets are guarded by
    UNITED STATES MARINES!
  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Forget about it HAIRY. If I received a $1 bill for everytime someone used the fall back line of "If we felt that way about (whatever) in WWII we'd all be speaking German or Japanese" rather than make a valid counter point I'd be a wealthy man. Keep in mind that it was the local police who kept order and protected Japanese Americans who were rounded up and catrted off by US Marshalls to internment camps early in WWII. What did those people do wrong other than have a bunch of their neighbors suddenly dislike them for actions of others in another country (Japan) which they had nothing to do with? My grandmother watched just such a scene unfold from her front porch one Sunday afternoon in early 1942. The local police came and did there jobs and no harm came to anyone.

    "Nothing can ever be made 'idiot proof' because idiots are simply too clever"!
    Mark T. Christian
  • bigdaddyjuniorbigdaddyjunior Member Posts: 11,233
    edited November -1
    America's greatness is also it's weakness. We allow anyone to be an american and as a society accept all religions , nationalities etc. It would be a smart move for a relatively small number of terrorists to use a mosque or mosques to launch an attack from right here in the USA to get the kind of reckless mob violence we are famous for directed at all Muslims across the country. Then the terrorists could recruit as many american muslims as they needed to start a religious type of civil war. We must all try to keep in mind that muslims are not terrorists. Terrorists defy the rule of muslim law and religion while hiding behind the cloak of Islam.

    040103cowboy_shooting_one_gun_md_clr_prv.gifBig Daddy my heros have always been cowboys,they still are it seems
  • NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    One thought to add,maybe the Police Officers you are seeing more of in certain area's are doing as much surveillance work as they are patrolling?

    Rugster




    "Toujours Pret"
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    Mark Christian: quote: What did those people do wrong other than have a bunch of their neighbors suddenly dislike them for actions of others in another country (Japan) which they had nothing to do with? I think jealousy had a major role in the dislike of the Japanese Americans.

    I understand those who were sent to the camps also had their property confiscated--which was then given to those "patriotic" Americans who were clamoring to have their neighbors incarcerated. Most of the farms were very productive.

    From what I recall, the US Government has belatedly said, "Gee, sorry about that, here's a couple of bucks for your troubles. Now go way." [:(][:(]

    Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
  • john carrjohn carr Member Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hairy and Mark Christian - Living in a university town I hear this pacifist rationale you propose often by leftist professors and other overeducated people. The only thought that comes to mind when I hear it is "rationalization of cowardice."
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    john carr: You preferred to respond with insults but you still ducked the question, haven't you?

    Since you live in a college town (smarts ain't rubbing off, are they) and it is obvious you don't attend school, maybe, if you try really hard, you can respond to the question:

    WHAT WOULD YOU SUGGEST AS A TARGET?

    Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
  • gobucksgobucks Member Posts: 257 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If it could be proven that specific Islamic institutions here abetted the terrorists who perpetrated the attack I rhink you might see retribution against it from private citizens. While I would not participate in or condone such an action - I would advocate the legal system take it's course - I could understand the frustration and anger of those who might, especially those who lost a family member to this incident of "Muslim rage". The same phenomenon that results in masked psychotics with automatic weapons standing over a live, hogtied and beaten American and shrieking "Allahu akbar" as they slowly and deliberately saw his head off for the camera.
    I'm not positive but I think the claim of "muslims celebrating in the streets in America" was proven false.
  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Let Mr. Carr talk on HAIRY, I'm only a high school graduate so I don't mind being compared with anyone at all (left wing, right wing, or moderate) who is considered to be even remotely "over educated". An act of Congress in the early 1980's granted each living Japanese-American internee a Settlement of $10,000 and a heart felt "We're sorry, this sort of thing will never happen again". At least a few of those camps are still standing as memorials, there is one up in the high desert of California called Manzanar just off US 395 south of Bishop. I suppose with a little cleaning up and some fresh barbed wire fencing those same camps could quickly be made ready for a new wave of Islamic internees.

    "Nothing can ever be made 'idiot proof' because idiots are simply too clever"!
    Mark T. Christian
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    Mark Christian: An awful lot of people have degrees but are uneducated. Many people have been issued a larger-than-normal amount of common sense which, IMO, trumps the college crowd everytime. [:D]

    Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
  • 96harley96harley Member Posts: 3,992 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I live north of a college town. The local folk are good moral based people. The influx of foriegn students and those from large liberal communties set the tone for the locals.

    A soldier back from Irag spoke to a class we recently hosted on gun safety and hunting issues. He told us a number of captured Iraqi soldiers had identification cards issued through the Indiana BMV. One of Bin Laden's key generals, if you care to call him that, was a student at this college. Northwest of us near Plainfield, Indiana is the largest Islmaic center in the midwest. You never see any cars there. I sometimes wonder ,as I am sure those who live within a hare's breath of the place, if there is anything at all going on there either good or bad. Sort of leaves us to draw our own conclusions about the place.

    "Save the Whalers, they need jobs too."
  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,292 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Saudi's are the money behind all the new Muslim temples being built in the U.S. They teach the radical wahaabi(sp) interpretation of the Koran.With their agenda of infiltrating into western societies and converting the world to Islam, shouldn't this bear scrutiny from a security standpoint?

    "Aim small...Miss small"
  • Red223Red223 Member Posts: 7,946
    edited November -1
    We know we will be attacked again, therefor give the Israeli's 50 Billion dollars and two fully equipped nuclear subs.

    There won't be anymore problems.
  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    Hairball & Mark:

    You two should do a little reading to find out how many of those "innocent" Japanese that were rounded-up after Pearl Harbor were actually in this country for subversive purposes.

    If you can't tell the good ones from the bad there's no choice but to target them all.

    If we get hit again by raghead terrorists we should start to methodically rid the world of ALL of those types. And what better place to start than here at home?

    Lord Lowrider the Loquacious.

    Member:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets

    She was only a fisherman's daughter,
    But when she saw my rod she reeled.
  • RocklobsterRocklobster Member Posts: 7,060
    edited November -1
    Yeah, we don't have any way to determine a target, so the best thing to do to keep from OFFENDING anyone is to just sit on our hands and let them kill us.

    We won't be able to do much, anyway, if by some fluke Kerry gets elected, because we won't have any guns to defend ourselves with. I guess we'll just have to do it the liberal way, and get a good description and call the police. Let them handle it. They are trained in the use of firearms.
  • Ray BRay B Member Posts: 11,822
    edited November -1
    It seems to me that the answer to the question is: if a target is of either tactical or strategic military value, then it is a viable target, regardless as to what it's other uses are.
  • victorlvlbvictorlvlb Member Posts: 5,004
    edited November -1
    I guess the best way to get thier attention would be to blow thier holy sites off the map.It sure would show them that we mean to go all the way to stop them.Or at least say that we are thinking about it.

    And this has come to pass,not to stay.
  • Hunter375Hunter375 Member Posts: 612 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Compact_Kid
    Do you think Americans would attack Muslim holy sites if our country was attacked again?

    Happened here. A mosque in Denver was severely damaged on 9/11. Some of the muslims were cheering, and some good folks who disapproved began running over the fences and gates in their trucks and tearing the place up. No one was killed, but if it happened again I would bet on much higher casualties than property alone. Also, one of the local gas stations (arab owned) was fire bombed with molotovs.

    Liberal compassion inhibits progress.........think Republican and prosper!
  • James AyersJames Ayers Member Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    [8D]WE hvae emminent domain for city/govt owned property, why can't we shut down all Muslim Mosques and associates?[}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)]

    On your mark-get set- go away!!
  • CWatsonCWatson Member Posts: 964 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Terrorist should be killed.Those who offer them safe harbor should be attack.Those who provide financial support should be attacked.Those who provide emotional support should be attacked.Make it so painful to be associated with them and let it be know the pain is headed their way.

    The friend of my enemy IS also my enemy!

    CW


    1.KILL EM' ALL AND LET ALLAH SORT EM' OUT!

    2.NEVER WASTE MONEY ON SPRINGFIELD ARMORY!!
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    Hmm, irrational and emotional feelings are really being displayed here. Am surprised you guys are so fearful. [:(]

    Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
  • HeavyBarrelHeavyBarrel Member Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
    Hmm, irrational and emotional feelings are really being displayed here. Am surprised you guys are so fearful. [:(]



    Do you feel the same way when your hanging out with your friends at Al-Jazeera?
  • CWatsonCWatson Member Posts: 964 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I see hate for our enemies no matter who and where they are,I see no fear.

    CW


    1.KILL EM' ALL AND LET ALLAH SORT EM' OUT!

    2.NEVER WASTE MONEY ON SPRINGFIELD ARMORY!!
  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    Typical liberal BS. Label everything that goes against their pacifist, hand-wringing agenda as an "irrational fear." From the same folks who brought you such popular catch-phrases as "homophobic."

    Lord Lowrider the Loquacious.

    Member:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets

    She was only a fisherman's daughter,
    But when she saw my rod she reeled.
  • MuffinmanMuffinman Member Posts: 418 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by James Ayers
    [8D]WE hvae emminent domain for city/govt owned property, why can't we shut down all Muslim Mosques and associates?[}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)]

    On your mark-get set- go away!!


    You can't use emminent domain laws on Homestead Titles. It has to be classified as a primary resident.
  • GatofeoGatofeo Member Posts: 230 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My father was a third generation German/American when he joined the Army in 1942. He saw Japanese neighbors forced to internment camps and wholly disagreed with it.
    Why didn't we also intern Germans? After all, there was an active Nazi Party in this country at the time. Some of its members were jailed after Germany declared war on us but many of its members were allowed to live in their homes, own businesses and carry on.
    No, the incarceration of the Japanese was racially motivated. It was also motivated by greed, since many Japanese Americans worked hard and had nice farms, houses and businesses to show for their efforts.
    And why didn't we incarcerate Italian Americans? Italy was our enemy too.
    What makes America great is its longstanding ideal of, "We don't care about your relgion, color, beliefs, social status or legal practices. Everyone is equal here."
    Notice I said "ideal" because we all know that isn't the true history of America. But it's something many Americans have strived here. If America can be summed in one word, it would be "equality."
    We haven't achieved that one word in this country, but we're closer than many other countries. Equality brings freedom.
    At best, everyone in America is treated equally. So, why would you propose violence on Mosques? Strikes me as decidedly un-American.
    It's not new to propose that one group be rounded up and their property confiscated or destroyed. A mere 70 years ago, a man named Hitler came to power and proposed that very thing.
    The Japanese did it to the Chinese. The North Koreans did it to their countrymen. Our ancestors did it to the Native Americans.
    America isn't perfect, but it's freer than most countries, if not all. The loss of freedom to any group is a loss to all of us, and American ideals.
    Both my parents fought the Nazis in World War II. My father as an American G.I. (with a decidedly German name. He always feared being taken prisoner, as he'd heard that the Germans were particularly brutal on those of German ancestry, for having betrayed their "race.").
    My mother fought the Germans as a member of the Belgian Resistance. Twice, she was imprisoned by the Gestapo in San Gilles Prison in Brussels. Her first husband, a Belgian Resistance leader, was executed by the Nazis.
    When she met my father, an American G.I., she was a 27-year-old widow.
    America is for ALL of us, not just Christians, heterosexuals, whites or Republicans. Once you start proposing that, you may as well join the ranks who sang of Horst Wessel in the local bundt.

    "A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44!"
  • cowdoccowdoc Member Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    X ring Lowrider!
    a couple of you people need to ask your self, If most of the muslims is this country and around the world are good people, peacefull and ect then ask yourself why dont they help root out the trash of their religion and prove that they truly are a religion of peace and ect..which i think is a load of bull sh it myself. in my mind they have to prove this because they are the ones who have the bullseye on them.

    if we are hit again we should vaporise a terrorist country" and which one doesnt natter to me" and then tell the if they dont straighten up and rid their countries of this kinda trash we then ask who wants to be next!
  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    Gatofeo: You don't see any difference between the Germans, Italians and Japanese of the nineteen-forties with respect to the degree of threat they posed to this country?

    Here's a clue: Which one attacked us?

    Some people see "racism" in everything. I've no doubt if I killed an armed black man for busting into my house in the middle of the night, there are those in our society - and sadly on this board - who would shriek "racism."

    When's the last time you heard of a minority being charged with a "hate crime?"

    Lord Lowrider the Loquacious.

    Member:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets

    She was only a fisherman's daughter,
    But when she saw my rod she reeled.
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    Lowrider: Sadly, it seems you missed the point. The Japanese were AMERICAN CITIZENS. Too bad your inherent racism speaks such volume. Are you busy practicing the song Horst Wessel? You should, you know, for there is little difference in their objectives and yours. [:(][:(]

    Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
    BUSH AND CHENEY--NO MORE YEARS!
  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    How did a racism-shrieking, hand-wringing, extreme left-leaning, liberal/socialist like you EVER end up owning firearms? You DO own firearms, don't you?

    Lord Lowrider the Loquacious.

    Member:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets

    She was only a fisherman's daughter,
    But when she saw my rod she reeled.
  • RocklobsterRocklobster Member Posts: 7,060
    edited November -1
    Right on the mark, Lowrider. I recently had a few words with a neighbor, about an ever-increasing pile of garbage that has been lying in his front yard for two weeks, because he didn't pay his garbage-collection bill. I remarked "Well, I see that you can afford a brand-new Lexus, wonder why you can't pay your garbage bill?" His answer: "You is a racist."
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