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Never hunting on Mil Installations again
Redleg
Member Posts: 417 ✭✭✭
This morning, it took me over an hour to get to my turkey hunting spot. It only took me 8 minutes (including the walk out) to get home. Why you ask?
This morning I got up at 0445 so that I can depart my house at 0500 and sign in with Range Control by 0515. That would put me in my stand by 0530 which is well before fly-down.
A month or so ago, I walked into the Law Enforcement Command HQ to register my firearm with the provost marshall. This morning, as I was driving onto post, the rent-a-cop gate guard asked me if I had any firearms on board (because I was wearing Mossy Oak and not my woodland camo uniform). I said "yes" and produced my registration of the firearm. She then made me pull over 3 lanes of traffic to have my vehicle searched. I had to first wait in line with about 5 other hunters, and submitted to an (ignoble) vehicle serch that involved popping the hood, opening all doors, the trunk, and stepping away from the vehicle.
So, the search gets under way...I always keep my fly fishing gear in my truck so that if I get off early, I can grab a few trout. The guard made me remove my fly rod, made me open all of my fly-vest and wading jacket pockets and answer questions why I have a Swiss Army knife concealed in one of the pockets. Never mind that I have a Browning 12 guage in the case (which they never opened or inquired about) and a 8" Buck knife under the front seat.
OK, so now we are well past my 0530 in the stand-hunting time and I still have to make the 20 mile round trip to range control to sign in...again! I have to produce my ID (I am an active duty soldier), my license, my hunting license, and my firearm registration. By now I am getting pretty peeved.
What nearly put me over the edge was getting sucked into a conversation about turkeys with the broke-dick NCO manning the desk (for all you NCOs out there, no offense). By the time I got into my stand, it was 0615, the sun was up and I probably busted every turkey getting to the stand.
Sorry for the rant, but we all know the question. Why harrass the law abiding citizen who goes through all the hoops and performs all the tricks to comply with the law. They should be the LEAST of the LEOs' concerns.
When I get off work today, I am going to grab my flyrod, my vest (with concealed Swiss Army knife), a 6-pack, and try to catch some trout.
Artillery lends dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. --Napoleon
This morning I got up at 0445 so that I can depart my house at 0500 and sign in with Range Control by 0515. That would put me in my stand by 0530 which is well before fly-down.
A month or so ago, I walked into the Law Enforcement Command HQ to register my firearm with the provost marshall. This morning, as I was driving onto post, the rent-a-cop gate guard asked me if I had any firearms on board (because I was wearing Mossy Oak and not my woodland camo uniform). I said "yes" and produced my registration of the firearm. She then made me pull over 3 lanes of traffic to have my vehicle searched. I had to first wait in line with about 5 other hunters, and submitted to an (ignoble) vehicle serch that involved popping the hood, opening all doors, the trunk, and stepping away from the vehicle.
So, the search gets under way...I always keep my fly fishing gear in my truck so that if I get off early, I can grab a few trout. The guard made me remove my fly rod, made me open all of my fly-vest and wading jacket pockets and answer questions why I have a Swiss Army knife concealed in one of the pockets. Never mind that I have a Browning 12 guage in the case (which they never opened or inquired about) and a 8" Buck knife under the front seat.
OK, so now we are well past my 0530 in the stand-hunting time and I still have to make the 20 mile round trip to range control to sign in...again! I have to produce my ID (I am an active duty soldier), my license, my hunting license, and my firearm registration. By now I am getting pretty peeved.
What nearly put me over the edge was getting sucked into a conversation about turkeys with the broke-dick NCO manning the desk (for all you NCOs out there, no offense). By the time I got into my stand, it was 0615, the sun was up and I probably busted every turkey getting to the stand.
Sorry for the rant, but we all know the question. Why harrass the law abiding citizen who goes through all the hoops and performs all the tricks to comply with the law. They should be the LEAST of the LEOs' concerns.
When I get off work today, I am going to grab my flyrod, my vest (with concealed Swiss Army knife), a 6-pack, and try to catch some trout.
Artillery lends dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. --Napoleon
Comments
Am I missing something? "REGISTER" your firearm? Where do you live, the People's Republic of Kalifornia?
Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
I am going to write the Law Enforcement Commander on this issue. Frankly, the people who man the gate are the most un-professional rent-a-cops I have ever seen It's embarrasing to me when visitors' first impressions of the post their sons and daughters are training at is guarded by a bunch of overweight, undertrained civilians.
Dobieman,
They were not doing their jobs. The whole point of the stop and search was because I had a gun in the car. Never did they ask about it or even look at it.
In fact, I got into a conversation with one of the guards while I was waiting to have my car searched and even HE said it was the most assinine thing he's ever heard of. The fact that he was dismissing his own SOP to an outsider shows an unprofessional attitude.
I guess you have to be here to know what I am talking about.
Brian
Clouder..
We only have a few special years with our children in which they desire our time, attention, and love. After that time is over, it is gone forever, and we will be the ones that desire their time, attention, and love. Make those few, short years count -
SSG idsman75, U.S. ARMY
Thanks for the response. I hope you were not put off by the "broke-dick" comment. I'm sure you know the type of NCO I am talking about. The one who can't hack it in an MTOE unit so requests to be assigned to Range Control or the gym. This person had not shaved in 2 days and reeked of "elderberries" (thanks Monty Python).
I have nothing but 100% respect for NCOs...those that remain professional and true to their creed. The same goes for my fellow officers. The other ones, well, they usually get filtered out before they can do too much damage.
Brian
PC=BS
Thanks for your response. Though somewhat vague and slightly applicable to the conversation at hand, I don't think anybody here is disagreeing with what you said.
I would gladly wait (and have) however long it takes to get through the front gate in the name of security. However, I went through procedures designed so I wouldn't have to. By remaining a law-abiding citizen, I was singled out for a not-so-thorough and unprofessional search.
Thanks for your interest, though.
Brian
Edited by - Redleg on 04/23/2002 15:49:16
We only have a few special years with our children in which they desire our time, attention, and love. After that time is over, it is gone forever, and we will be the ones that desire their time, attention, and love. Make those few, short years count -
I can tell you from experience that the 'cover your butt' tactics that the military installations are so lamely attempting to put in force at this time, are worthless. Why, you ask, easy... The gate isnt where the terrorist is going to come through, and we all know that, that is the reason why we are so ticked off at the haphazard manner in which the posts all around the world are attempting now to make their installation safe. I've been talking of this problem for years. I will give you one specific example, and leave it at that. I can drive right onto Camp Pendleton with a SEMI truck full of C4, drive it right down to the flight line, and blow up the entire air wing. How, well gee, duh, how about I just go cut the little lock on the powerline access gate, which goes through Pendleton, located in the middle of no where, and drive right on down there. Or I can just drive through one of the training areas, accessing it via one of the many yards that border Pendleton on the east side, protected by a big bad woven wire fence, you know the one, the one where the resident thought they'd like to be able to access the training area with their dirt bike, so he put his own gate up in the fence. Believe it, security on your, my, government's military installations is a stinking joke. I addressed the above problem with the proper authorities back in 95, guess what, no one cared then and probably still dont. The gate I told you a SEMI could roll through, is regularly used by dirt bikers to access that side of the base, shoot they probably have the key, put their own lock on it or something. Their are miles of unpatrolled and UNFENCED training areas on most installations, and that is not going to change any time soon.
That being said, guess why I get so ticked when I am being harrassed, yes harrassed, at the gate as I come through with a sticker signifying my vehicle registered with the base, a sticker with my rank, my uniform on, and they have the ignorance to put me through their idiotic motions. The best part is they only do it sometimes, not all the time, thats what really ticks me off. Then on top of it all, they ask my wife for her i.d. as a passenger in my vehicle. What the #u** over, you think I'm bringing a terrorist on post or something, and this woman is the terrorist? These idiots actually believe that I'm going to bring some one on post that would put any government property or personnel in danger, not to mention my family???? Not while alive. I think I speak for every military member in the service when I say, THIS IS COMPLETELY IGNORANT. What if I do have someone who doesnt have a dependent or active duty i.d. card? So what!!! If he or she is with me then they are ok, man!! This coming from a post that up until recently had no gates at all, and even threw my rights and priveledges of the commissary to the wind by allowing anyone with no i.d. to come into the store and tell their buddy with the i.d. card which brand of ketchup they wanted, so long as the member pays for it. I gotta end this, I'm so steamed now I need to relax.
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
And if they didn't check your wife's ID? I thought I was watching a movie once with Tom Cruise in it. Don't Marines who fail to follow orders end up getting killed or something like that?
SSG idsman75, U.S. ARMY
Okay, I can edit this page now that I'm done fuming. You have no idea what kind of people NCO's and even Officers will bring onto a military installation. Driving and merely being present on a military installation is a priviledge--not a right. It is not a democracy there. There are perfumed princes with stars on their shoulders that dictate what is to be done. I'm sure you'd snap to attention if one walked into your place of work. What do you think the MP's are doing? They are obeying the orders they were given. Do they have the General Orders in the Marine Corps (pardon the sarcasm)? My blood pressure is a little high right now. You'll have to pardon me. When I had the thankless job of working a gate I just loved all those spouses and girlfriends and folks in uniform that expect special treatment because they have a green ID card in their hand. The officers' wives were the best. They would sit and wait for you to salute their vehicle because their husband's DOD sticker indicated that the vehicle was owned by an officer. I'd smile and wave them on.
Edited by - idsman75 on 04/23/2002 23:14:30
Robsguns is 100% correct. Here at Ft L Wood, the most perimeter security you will see is a wire gate with 2 highway dividers going off into the trees about 5 feet. I can walk from my house (off post, and I can see the MANSCEN (HQ) building from my window...which brings up another set of security issues) to work on post without once bumping into anybody else and not once having to breech any fences.
When I was stationed at Ft Lewis, the perimeter there was in shitty shape. How do I know this? Because I ran details to go cleanup meth labs the punks in the surrounding communities set up in the woods on post. The ASP (which still houses 155mm chem rounds) is guarded by unarmed soldiers and is located about 10 miles from the any law enforcement or any response force.
The security at Army installations here CONUS is pure whitewash. The US should learn from countries that deal with this on a daily basis (Israel, Lebanon, etc.) to develop effective anti-vehicle anti personnel countermeasures.
But, I digress. The original intent of this post was to illustrate an example of a honest, hard working soldier who researches then executes all necessary steps to be in compliance with the law to enjoy the privelege of hunting, and how that soldier ends up feeling invaded and singled out because of those actions and his belief in the law. Simple as that. Because I gave a *, I became a candidate for further search and scrutiny. Total BS.
SSG idsman75, U.S. ARMY
Or that randomness can exist because of the abject incompetence of the security guards. You really ought to take a trip down here and see for yourself. It's a freaking laughing stock.
Here's a great example. I have Washington State tags on both of my cars. This year, they stopped issuing both (front and back) sets of stickers...only one set for the back.
At first, the guard would see me drive up with my expired front tag, take my ID, walk around back of the vehicle to check that I have a current rear tag. F**kin-A! Airborne! Way to do your job, guard.
Now, I can come on post on a long weekend, after changing the oil in my car, and not having shaved for 3 days...trying my best to look like a dirtbag. Same thing..drive up, guy takes my ID, and now ASKS from the comfort of his little booth, if my back tag is current. I can have a plate from Belgium and he wouldn't knwo it until I'm already on the way. Small example, I know, but very illustrative of the laziness of the security forces we now have.
So, I choose to believe that this randomness is because the guards have no idea what the standards are or how to do their jobs. (I had to tell one portly guard that (because his waist was so large) his fat rolls caused his thumb-break holster to open...absolutely PITIFUL)
Brian
Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.
SSG idsman75, U.S. ARMY
I haven't been back since and if expect security has no doubt been tightened but that experience was sickening. How short-sighted can we be and still survive? I think we are finding out.
Clouder..
It sounds like your experience was much worse and less than professional. Perhaps other bases will be better in the future. Hope this one improves before you are gone, and life gets better.
It takes longer to clear security, but it's a necessary deal these days.
Jim
"De Oppresso Liber"