In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
COWBOYKIDD: Of COURSE there's a difference. Commercial ammo comes loaded to the particular manufacturer's spec, and offers various bullet weights and types, and has the distinct advantage of being NEW. Military is loaded to the Mil Spec, using Mil Spec bullets, and in some cases of extreme old age be unreliable and downright dangerous. If buying Military ammo, I try for the newest US issue stuff I can find, but my .45s get fed only NEW commercial ammo....Something as big and powerful as an '06 round in an old Garand...I'd shy away from any surplus of questionable manufacture date...
Robsguns,Nowhere in my posts did I criticize the M240. I was just stating that the 60 has been replaced and the SAW was not its replacement.I haven't had the opportunity to carry/fire the 240. I'm a reservist. We still have 60s and A2s.
simonbs, I wasnt directing any comments toward your post, I was just stating an opinion, and a couple facts, dont take any offense, ok? I was really just defending the 5.56 and our newer weapons, thats all. You'll enjoy shooting the guns when you get a chance, so long as you dont have to carry all the ammo.
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
Steve 45. Sure I do but the M-1 brings back bad memories of severe training and the knowledge of the Garands' shortcomings. The Army was losing in Korea so they toughened up training. My company never slowed down, walked or marched but ran everywhere. By week 3 or 4 in February, fully 50% of all companies were in the hospital with pneumonia. As the hospital was filled, my case of walking pneumonia only got me Penecillin shots.The hardship on the remainder of us was almost to the breaking point and carrying that heavy, awkward M1 was a good part of it. Dropping out while still conscious was punished severely.Just now I recalled how badly the M1 could jam from dust or corrosion. Stomping on the operating handle sometimes wouldnt do it and a tree, rock or the butt of another M1 was often necessary.My exposure to M1 gas system problems in Korea reinforced my dislike for the rifle.Fortunately, I had a choice of weapon and preferred an M-2 Carbine with muzzle brake or a 1911 for more secure areas.
I just want to say that I will gladly pay good money to see some of these 1000yd groups! 10-12" group at 1000yd, is that with a scope, are you using bags, is it really 1000yds or is it "hunter yards"? Some of the best shooters in the country spend buku $$ to get a scoped rifle to even come close to that. I remember readin awhile back about a new record set at wimledon(did I spell that right?) done with a 300win mag and the gun was totally narley looking, I can't remember the actual group size but if it was smaller than 10" it wasnt by much. I dont want to ba a smarta$$ but I gotta see that done with an open sight rifle to beleive it!
when all else fails........................[This message has been edited by 7mm_ultra_mag_is_king (edited 01-24-2002).]
7mm.....A very good friend of mine,Wes Shumaker, fired a 199-13X(with a Garand) at 29 Palms 1000 yard course about three or four years ago. It came within 1X I believe of a service rifle record that has stood since 1964. At the National Matches in 2000, he fired 198-7or8X to win the Porter Trophy as the best 1000 yard service rifle shooter in the nation. There were at least 10 other people who shot above 196 that day. He didn't shoot at Perry in 2001 because he was on deployment to the Far East but He'll be back this year to try again. Now are those 10-12inch groups? No, of course not. But they are under 25 inches for the most part and that is a 20 shot string from the prone position under competition pressure not some 3 or 5 shot groups from a benchrest in perfect conditions... and of course they are shot without the benefit of a scope. In fact another good fiend of mine William Boyd shot a 191-3x with his Garand this year at Perry....he's 70 years old. Did he put them inside of 12 inches? No...but that wasn't the weapon's fault. For the guys that can read the wind and the mirage and know their rifles those kind of scores are obtainable. Guys shooting scoped match boltguns can do better. And you really don't have to spend good money to see it....just come to Camp Perry in late July and August and watch the show...at no cost! Of course you can always go to the CMP trinkets shop and drop some coin for some CMP goodies...and you get to talk with the best shooters in the Nation at no cost. Hey and I'll buy you a beer! Beach
Cowboy, the difference is the powder. Commercial powder burns slower thus makes more pressure which might bend the op-rod. I have loaded thousands of rounds with hunting bullets using IMR 4895 which burns at a med to fast rate.
One of the most fun guns you will ever shoot, plus it's a piece of history and a collector gun you will never lose money on if you buy a good one. Nuf said. Loan Shark, "the history nut".
Cowboy - you asked "Is there a difference between military ammo and store bought stuff?" Yes and no. You can buy commercial ammo the duplicates most military loads. You can also buy commercial ammo that not only differs from mil. spec. ammo but is capable of damaging many military arms.Gas operated weapons like the M1 or M14 or M16 or AK47 are designed for a specific pressure, temperature and pressure rise/fall time. For example, if you were to load Hornady Light Magnum ammo into an M1, you could damage the operating rod both from high pressures and from high temp. Might not hurt for a few rounds but over time it would.
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
I think that comparing an M1 to more modern arms is rather foolish. The Garand is still a fine shooting weapon....but it's a 70-year-old design, a mass produced jack-of-all-trades, built of 50-year-old materials.After all, today you can go out and buy a medium priced family sedan that will out perform a '50s Jaguar XK-120 or Gullwing Mercedes 300SL. Technology marches on....but you can keep your Taurus...I'll take the Jag or Merc (and the Garand).
My Garand ain't pretty and if can shoot inside of three feet at 1K yards, I can't. But, man, it is one fine piece of work. I pick up GI ammo where I can and it does just fine, thank you. No expert like Beach and some of you other folks, but tell ya what, I'll take that old M1 out to play if the flag ever goes up and leave the AR and AK at home. '06 & .45 forever.
Comments
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
when all else fails........................[This message has been edited by 7mm_ultra_mag_is_king (edited 01-24-2002).]
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis