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Very Concerned About GB Transaction

boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
edited July 2002 in General Discussion
I recently won a Beretta BM59 at auction for $1325.00. I sent the bidder a bank check for $1350.00 to cover shipping/insurance per his request.

I sent the check via priority mail with delivery confirmation 10 days ago. My FFL sent him a copy of the signed FFL to receive the item about the same time. Now he says he got the check and FFL a few days ago, but as he was packing the gun today he was going to cash the check and CAN'T FIND THE CHECK! He says he lost it, and perhaps threw it out with the trash. He wants me to have the bank stop payment on the check now, and send him the money after they pay me back. He is very apologetic, but of course I'm concerned.

So, how long do you figure it take the bank to clear a refund for this check, assuming he really lost it? Maybe a month? Do any of you happen to know what kind of time it takes to get a stop payment and refund on a bank check?

It sure seems odd that a person would misplace or loose a check for that kind on money. I'm a bit concerned at this point.

To err is human, to moo is bovine.
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Comments

  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    Anyone who could lose a check worth that much is not, in my opinion, worth doing business with. Cancel the check and don't send another, unless of course he is willing to send the gun first, which I doubt.

    "...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
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  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If this is the same firearm I am thinking about, I believe it was listed and re-listed and re-listed and re-listed and re-listed......
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  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    This was the first and only listing on the gun. He's only some 80 miles from here, in Oklahoma (I'm in Kansas). If I do get another check I'm going to take it down personally and not give it to him until I see the item shipped.

    For that matter, I think a resident of Kansas can buy a longarm from a dealer in Oklahoma with no legal issues. If I do go ahead with the deal I think a trip down there would be in order.

    But how long for me to get the money back from the bank?

    To err is human, to moo is bovine.
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  • MercuryMercury Member Posts: 7,842 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Only 80 miles? Sheesh.......I would have driven down there BEFORE I sent someone that much money.........but you didn't.

    Ok......call the bank, find out about getting the check stopped, if it was cashed, etc.

    Then either drive down and get it, or send the new check.

    Sounds like a dumb person to me. ;)

    Merc



    NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!

    ****************************************

    "Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
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  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,085 ******
    edited November -1
    It is a rifle. You can make the deal face to face. No shipping required.

    SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
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  • alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
    edited November -1
    It appears to me your in the middle of a scam. The seller may not have gotten what he wanted for the weapon and is trying to lie his way out so you will give up on the transaction. I damn well would cancel the check. Your bank may chrge a small fee for this.

    If you want the gun, go get in his face and secure the transaction.
    IMO!
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  • PJPJ Member Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Don't be surprised if the check has been cashed already. If it hasn't been, the bank may want you to post a bond in order for them to reissue it.

    Pete

    "Be kind to your neighbor, he knows where you live."
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The only way to know for sure is call the bank. Go to a local branch if possible and find a helpful person with a computer who can check to see the status of that Cashier's Check (which I assume we're talking about). Once they put a stop payment order on it they can refund your money because they're not going to pay whoever appears with the check. But it all depends. Policies on stuff like this vary from bank to bank. Since it was a Cashier's Check, they may actually wait longer to see if someone cashes it than if you had written a personal check. But once they commit to stop payment they should pay you back. It's not unheard of for someone to lose something really valuable -- my mom once lost all the home movies from our Canadian trip to Expo '67. Thinks the paper sack of movie reels must have fallen into the trash. Anyway, good luck. Since he didn't cash it, you have the right to declare it "lost" and the bank should then be anxious to stop payment to prevent misuse. Let's hope so.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
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  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    Just heard from the bank, since it's a bank check they can't stop payment for 90 days.

    To err is human, to moo is bovine.
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  • RancheroPaulRancheroPaul Member Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here is the problems you encounter with using Cashier's Checks from a Bank.....any bank in the United States.
    1. You can stop payment on them and receive a refund in 24 hours or less. This is why some folks wait to get them "cleared" because a shady buyer could stop payment and you could have sent the item.
    2. A Cashier's Check may be deposited simply by writing "For Deposit Only to Account Number (such and such). Anyone can do
    this, not just who it is made out to. No other endorsement is
    required. Lost Checks can be cashed this way.

    A U.S. Postal Money Order has its problems, also. First of all, they relie on whoever cashing them to make sure they "know the person" cashing the check and have recourse against them. But once cashed, by whoever cashes it, right or wrong, the Post Office will do nothing for a cashed Money Order! If lost, stolen, misplaced, whatever, no refund or replacement will be issued until after 60 days! Go figure on this!

    Simples solution.....Have bank "Stop Payment" and give you a cash refund. Take the Cash, drive the 80 miles, pick up your rifle if inclined, or look for another one. Seems to me the guy deserves to be "innocent until proved guilty" of any wrongdoing. Losing a Cashier's Check for this amount might be "air-headed" by not necessarily criminal. Because he's asking you to help in the replacement is not trying to screw you. It's his only way to approach it from his end if he indeed "Lost It." If additional charges are incurred for replacement of the lost one, etc., let him pay them. Meanwhile, give him the benefit of the doubt. He doesn't have any other avenue but to have the "Purchaser" deal with the Lost one!

    If You Can't Buy a Pair, Get a Spare!
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  • dads-freeholddads-freehold Member Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    greetings. i agree with 'rancher, if it is an honest mistake the seller should be innocent until... but being the one that lost the check he should be the one to incure(that is pay) the remedy. trust me the bank does not do any thing for free including this. you have a couple things going for you 1. you sent it by signed mail ,ie , he signed he recieved it. 2. you reported the transaction's failure as soon as you found out. if posible you need to document both events with a trip to the po and bank, insurance incase the transaction isn't kosher. respt. submitted dads-freehold

    rodney colson
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  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    The bank says they can't "stop payment" for 90 days. They are going to check with the officials at the main office to see about the details.

    I sent it via priority mail with delivery confirmation, which is tracked by the post office. It proves it was delivered to his address but he didn't sign for it.

    Of course, I am not at all happy about this. It may be that I am out the money for at least 90 says with nothing to show for it. For about $350.00 more I could have bought a brand new BM59 of the same type. Now it may be months before I can do anything with the money.

    I suppose negative feedback might be appropriate. Guess I'll contact gunbroker administration and see what the say.

    To err is human, to moo is bovine.
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  • AlerionAlerion Member Posts: 61 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think you are well within your legal rights to insist that he ship you the gun. Once he received your check (which he has apparently admitted he had) it became his responsibility to take care of it. That wasn't your money he lost, it was HIS money he lost. He's holding the gun, leaving you at risk for his mistake. He should ship you the gun and ASK you to cooperate in recovering his funds. Definately any and all expenses should be covered by the guy and if he manages to get his money, by your good graces, I think it would be reasonable to expect him to send you some kind of "freebie" (like a Beretta hat) as an expression of his gratitude.

    The basic facts here are:
    1. You had a deal to purchase the gun.
    2. You sent the required FFL and payment.
    3. He received the FFL and payment
    4. He is defaulting on the deal by not shipping the gun
    5. His losing the check is his problem, not yours.

    If he doesn't ship the gun immediately I'd:
    1. Report him to gunbroker
    2. Try to cash in on gunbroker's fraud insurance (which would serve to force action on gunbroker's part)
    3. File a complaint with the BATF (might as well use them for something)
    4. File a criminal conversion complaint with the police (it's not actually theft)
    5. If all else fails, file a small claims case against him.

    Tom

    So, just how does rendering me defenseless protect you from violent criminals?
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  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    GB sure is getting alot of this type of activity and I hear they are little or no help getting problems resolved. I would like to see GB get involved and prosecute some of these crooks and let them know it wont be tolerated. Sorry to hear about your problems friend, you have my sympathy and hope you can recover your money..

    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
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  • PJPJ Member Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I guess it's to the point that I am not going to pay with anything but a credit card if the amount involved is more than I can comfortably cover.

    Pete

    "Be kind to your neighbor, he knows where you live."
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  • treedawgtreedawg Member Posts: 321 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I THINK THE SELLER SHOULD DRIVE 80 MILES AND HAND DELIVER THE GUN TO YOUR FRONT DOOR AND COVER ANY AND ALL CHARGES THAT MAY RESULT FROM THIS BOTCHED DEAL!!! That's only fair in this case.
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  • hunter86004hunter86004 Member Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A few years ago I was the high bidder on eBay for a trapdoor carbine that went for about $1100.00 and the guy wanted a certified check. He had a couple of negative feedbacks, so I told him to ship it COD. He refused and I kept my money and he kept the gun--if there was one. As a buyer and seller, I feel that both parties should feel comfortable with the deal and COD guarantees that you get yours and he gets his.
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  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    Update...

    I have just returned from a long business to Canada, the seller has advised me he has shipped the gun but he still can't find the check. I think that's showing considerable good faith on his part and I really appreciate it. My FFL dealer hasn't contacted me about picking up the gun yet, but I certainly anticipate the seller in this deal will be getting very, very good feedback from me.

    To err is human, to moo is bovine.
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    boeboe,
    Glad to hear everything is working out for the best!

    BTW - Did you get your FAL assembeled? I'm still contemplating one ...

    =================================
    The only bad thing about choosing a Kimber ...
    ... there are so darn many models to choose from!
    kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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  • RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Glad to hear it is working out. Put a Stop Payment on the Check. When the Gun comes in and checks out send another check minus the Stop Payment fee and any other fees.
    I wonder if that first check isn't paper clipped to the FFL, or the bottom of the folder instead of the cash register.

    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!

    Edited by - RugerNiner on 07/10/2002 23:06:16
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
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  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    Hey Kimber,

    I haven't really done much more with an FAL yet. I was really contemplating putting the money I spent on the BM59 into a DSA stainless bull barrel and receiver, but the BM59 edged out the FAL plan. Now, the more I look into BM59's the more I think I'll become a fanatic along those lines rather than an falaholic. I'm beginning to think the BM59 might be an overlooked collectable. I think everyone's so ingrained in thinking along the FAL, HK91, or M1A lines they don't even think there might be another option such as the BM59. I've been looking at them, new dealer's price on the standard BM59 is about 17K. That's for a new gun with plenty of the assault weapons goodies. For a couple of hundred more a person can buy the Rhodesian version of the BM59 with the pistol grip, flash hider, etc. That's the Beretta semi-auto version of a SAW. I'm really considering buying one of those and just keeping it in the box, to see how it "does" in the future. But maybe I'll check this one I got out as a shooter first.



    To err is human, to moo is bovine.
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