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Fighting Unethical Management

boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
edited March 2002 in General Discussion
Well, maybe it's just to blow off steam and won't accomplish a dang thing. Maybe the CEO will just use it as toilet paper, but I'm preparing my letter of resignation and want to know if any of you have advice on how to touch it up, add to it, whatever comments anyone might have. I plan on sending it in the next week or so. looking for comments.__________________________________________Dear Mr. XXXXI will try to make this as short as possible and stifle any tendency to make it a personal attack. It does demonstrate a very real problem you face with the ethics of this company, and from what I am hearing the problem is more widespread than one would think.Since I began my employment in 1984 I have never been impressed with the honesty displayed by my management. I dealt with the lack of honesty as best I could and over the years achieved a position as a lower level supervisor. After having achieved that level, my management began to probe to see how dishonest I would be in support of their causes. My management would tell me to lie on reports because it was the easiest way to handle certain situations. My management asked me if I would lie to help them fire an employee. Representing the company, I sat in grievance hearings and heard my management lie about facts to win a position. I tolerated this dishonesty up to the point that I found evidence to support the conclusion my management was intimidating employees in my crew in an effort to get them to lie for him. At that point I decided it was necessary to report this activity to Human Resources.An interesting side note about a conversation that happened as the result of the ensuing investigation I believe is very relevant. Prior to being interviewed by HR I encouraged my employees to just be honest. After the interviews I heard that one of my employees, one who initially confirmed my manager's flawed behavior, had lied to the investigator during the interview. When I asked him about this, he told me he did lie to them. Then he told a story of previously observing six employees "going up against" a manager for some "really unethical" activity, and within six months all six employees were out the door. He had learned the game. He needed the job, all he wanted to do was come to work and not get involved in the politics. To paraphrase, he said he couldn't care less about the union, the management, or the ethics program in this company. As far as he was concerned, they were all worth (at that point, he spit on the floor).My manager did receive some minor discipline as the result of the investigation. But as time passed, I couldn't help but feel he was out to retaliate against those he suspected of going against him. He had his favorites he showered special consideration on, and then there were the others who were treated with noticeable harshness. I was certainly not the only employee who noticed this. Over the course of a couple of years I talked to two Directors three different times expressing my concerns. I was a bit surprised to hear them admit they knew they had managers who lied. I am now convinced that Directors intentionally keep these dishonest managers in their box of management tools. Ultimately I went to Human Resources one more time. The decision was made to move me out of the area of discourse. Unfortunately, with the economy being what it was, there was apparently no where to put me, so I was placed in a position under the same manager doing the job I was doing 15 years ago. While I retained my pay rate it was visually apparent to everyone I had been effectively demoted. Any job I might get in the future is uncertain at best, perhaps one will open up in a year or two, or perhaps never. Having been branded as one who will resist Machiavelian management I doubt I will be moved to a more appropriate position. While my pay and paper status have not been affected, it has been made clear to me that I am expected to operate at the lowest level within my job function and it would be in my best interest to secure employment outside the company. I have found employment outside this company and within a few weeks will start my new job.Any reasonable manager can clearly see my departure will not solve any problems. It will only aggravate it. Remaining employees have clearly seen I represent an example of what happens when an employee raises complaints about management dishonesty and favoritism. Fearing for their job, they will not speak up against such activity and if forced into an interview often lie to avoid retaliation. The ethics program in this company will remain a little white picket fence to satisfy the minimum federal requirements. To put it bluntly, the company will be left with more employees who would just as soon spit on the floor.Some time ago I concluded this job was not worth it. I stopped being concerned about whether I was fired or not. I believe malignancies of the sort that infest (company omitted) can spread to the physical bodies of the employees, and I want no part of it. I did make a commitment to at least drive this issue to the highest levels before I left, and that is the reason you are receiving this message. Do with it what you will, you can easily dismiss it as a message from a disgruntled employee. But if the employee opinion survey is any indication, I think half your work force is composed of disgruntled employees at this point in time. I have no doubt it is the result of this style of management behavior. You have years and years of work ahead of you to overcome the ingrained lessons employees continue to learn. I'm to old to spend years and years waiting while doing a job far below my abilities, and my credentials as such that I don't have to.Regards,XXXXX
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Comments

  • DarkStar11DarkStar11 Member Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I know this ain't what you want to hear, but don't do it. Unless you already have something lined up, these bast*rds are, unfortunately, your next job reference. If you're leaving under your will (not getting fired) let it pass with a "Dear Sirs, Please allow this letter to serve as my 2 week notice of intent to resign from my position of abc at xyz corp. My last day of employment with xyz corp will be March ??, 2002." Let your anger pass. The b*stards ain't worth it. JMHO.(edit) Say what you want in your Exit Interview with HR, but keep the resignation letter short and sweet.[This message has been edited by DarkStar11 (edited 03-16-2002).]
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  • adminadmin Member, Administrator Posts: 1,079 admin
    edited November -1
    Agreed. Don't burn a bridge unless you absolutely have to.
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  • woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Member Posts: 5,378 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm going through something similar where I am. I nearly walk out on a nightly basis. It's just a matter of time and I'll find something new. By the way I'm in Q.A. also. WOODS
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  • wundudneewundudnee Member Posts: 6,105 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Darkstar has it right. they are not worth the anger and strain. Don't burn bridges and never say never. I quit making positive statements about how my life plans were. I was involved with a low life company with the same morals as what you are working with now. Don't hold on to the bitterness and hate, let it go. There is life after those kind of jobs.I was also in Q.A. for 27 years with a good company before it was sold to these low life bandits.
    "It's great to be great, but it's greater to be human." Will Rogers
    standard.jpg
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  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Great advice, they can hurt you a lot more that your letter will hurt them. Even if you already have a new job lined up you never know when you might need a good reference from them in the furure.
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  • timberbeasttimberbeast Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Skip the letter. Nobody will even read it, and nobody will remember you in a month, except your friends (no offense).Leave on a good note, don't stoop to "management's" level, and don't stoop to the union's level. Both are the same. Neither of them gives a damn about you. If you leave on good terms, those individuals whom you have shown your talent to will help you with good references in the future, at least some scrap of loyalty.Bottom line is that the company and the union both only care about one thing, Money. One is run by the private sector, the other is run by the Mob. I'll take the private sector any day. At least you don't have to pay them "protection money" to speak to them. Good luck, things are getting better, if you have talent, you'll find a better place!!Have left two union jobs, nobody from the union(s) ever did a thing for me. Both managements gave me beaucoup recommendations.
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  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Unethical behavior, vengeful managers, cronyism, CMA syndrome, etc. are the hallmarks of many, if not most, corporate cultures (certainly all with which I had the misfortune to be associated). Believe it or not, "Iconoclast" was not a randomly-chosen user name. I feel my professional performance was high (how many people leave jobs w/ references from both management and Union officers?), but I rocked too many insecure boats to advance beyond relatively low level management. I felt - and still feel many, many years later - at least as angry as thee, but there's no legacy to show it where I was employed.These guys are 150% right. Find a different position elsewhere first - you have to be at least in your late 30s given your start date of 1984, and likely into that area where your DoB matters more than your track record, all that EEOC BS aside. Then give a brief, professional letter of resignation, try to brief subordinates on / clean up any pending projects, etc., and walk. Divulging your reasons to HR is your call, but if the culture is as negative as you describe, it's likely HR has a role in it as well - they are not, after all, the CEO, and culture flows downhill from the top - actively or tacitly. If you have co-workers whom you would literally trust w/ your life, you can confide in them, but a view shared with one is a view shared w/ the world. And after 18 years w/ one company, that managerial group you seek to escape will be writing references for the rest of your life. Put their names in a tickle file for the day you retire. A hot letter now, however tactfully phrased, only allows you to vent; it does you no good. Do it on your *home* PC and LET IT STAY THERE. Oh, and sometimes life is good. Sometimes things break so in the future a third party asks you for a reference for one of the 'holes. To quote the Klingons: "Revenge is a dish best tasted cold." It doesn't get any sweeter; I know.
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  • bartobarto Member Posts: 4,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    sweep it under the rug?--*! barto
    the hard stuff we do right away - the impossible takes a little longer
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  • alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
    edited November -1
    If i were you I would stay cool,calm and dry and look for better employment. Companies that operate in the manner of which you speak cannot survive long. I believe that Enron was a huge example of unethical practices.If you find that you cannot do this then i suggest that you covertly find ways to cause inter-fighting between the culprits and let nature take it's course with them. We had a similar problem at a local elevator company i worked at. We had a committeeman selling out union members just because of his personal bias toward them. We were Teamsters and our tactics were more blunt and concise. Needless to say he was neutralized in short order.The company finally went out of business simply because of mis-management after over a century of operation.Anyway, you are welcome back here in Toledo anytime.
    Never ask why but only the value of.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have had similar problems at my last two companies, and both times I stuck to my principles and did not leave. Both times I was finally laid off.In the first case, the company would knowingly enter into contracts where they knew they would run 3-6 months behind their promised deadlines. When I stood for quality in my office, I simply made people mad because I wasn't cooperating. In the second case, the boss was patently dishonest. He would lie, break his word daily, never remember promises he had made, and even (I heard) forge a signature. I know he once signed a contract with a terminated employee in order to be sure not to lose a contract commitment with the man's former company. Discontent was rampant throughout this company but few people were leaving because they needed their jobs. As a manager who had to deal with the guy whenever he was in the office, I was relieved when they laid me off. They foolishly allowed their newest salesman to attend my exit meeting, and he asked me questions about my experiences for about 2 hours. The kicker was they offered to keep me on as a self-employed consultant without benefit of salary if I wanted to start my own business. I was honest with the new guy and he got an earful. Just so you know, another female employee who had recently left cried more than once because she felt her principles were being violated by continuing to work with this guy. Neither time I was let go was the CEO who made the decision anywhere in sight. Your letter is well written. I suggest you change the word Machiavellian to 'dishonest' or 'questionable' (it's less inflammatory), and "nowhere" is one word, not two. I'm sure you know that once you're gone the letter may not make any difference in how the company is run. The CEO will only take the time to read it if it's news to him. There are a shocking number of companies where the kind of thing you describe is normal. There are a lot more companies in the world than there are managers of excellence. People like you and me are assets until we become "not worth the trouble" any more, and then we have to move on. I have burned a few bridges. I can always find someone in a past company who knew the truth of my performance to use as a reference if I need one. Since you usually would list your immediate supervisor as your reference name, you've already compromised that, so I don't think a letter to the CEO is going to hurt you additionally. It's well written and does not cause my "disgruntled" radar to sound any alarms. I think you've done a good job of describing the facts, and if you want to mail it, I'd mail it. Just be sure you know one or two guys at the firm you can have future employers call who will honestly describe your performance, accomplishments and capabilities without having any axe to grind. One more thing. You've been there since 1984. Be sure you don't carry your resentful attitude into the next job. If you do, you'll never be satisfied with any manager. You're going to have to get your sunny side back, somehow. Otherwise you'll find yourself developing personality clashes over and over again with your bosses.
    "The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    A couple more things:In the last sentence: Should read "I'm too old..."Should read "credentials are such"Also, open your letter by saying something like, "This is my letter of resignation." Don't bury the headline.
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  • Jungle JimJungle Jim Member Posts: 264 ✭
    edited November -1
    boeboe,Here's some more verbal ammo for your letter,should you decide to send it:"A company is not made up of companies; it's made up of people. Every time a good employee leaves a company, they take a piece of that company with them. Enough people leave, and there's no company left!"Good luck,JimSecondly, talk
    "De Oppresso Liber"
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  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    Good advice. I appreciate it. It really would do more harm to the company to not say anything, just let them drown in their own manure. It will be hard to keep from venting. We'll see...I do have one card I'm sure I'll play. A month or so after I quit I'll call the annonomous ethics hotline and tell them the manager is using his corporate charge card for personal purchases.
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  • timberbeasttimberbeast Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Boeboe: My response was in respect to YOU covering your own butt and not being blackballed. Others, obviously disagree. I've been around the block with this stuff as well, and the one thing that I won't do is anything "anonymous". If I do it, I stand behind it in name, and in principle. You have to weigh whether the principles that you hold are worth perhaps losing opportunities for future employment. Sometimes it's best to let them self-destruct, and trust me, they will. In three years or less, I'll tell you of a company that has. They haven't yet, but they are working very hard at it as we speak. In the meantime, just a "knowing smile" does my heart good. Perhaps the best scenario for you is to get your new position, and at your "discharge interview", just smile and say "You know why." to most of their questions. For those who advocate blowing the lid off, they obviously have not been in a position which could jeopardize their future, or are much smarter than anyone who need a job. Hats off to them. I've run my own business and have had many jobs working for others, and all of my bridges are intact. That isn't surrender. It's beating them at their own game. When you play hardball with spikes up, you have to know where the spikes should NOT go. Only one dummy's opinion.In any case, in the end, will you still not know in your heart that you are better than them? That's bottom line.
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  • BlueTicBlueTic Member Posts: 4,072
    edited November -1
    When I left the Corrections Dept. 10years ago, I had the same experience. I had my years in and could have fought my supervisor tooth and nail. It was not worth it to me as it would not change a corrupt system enough to make a difference (I was a simple case counselor). My wife and I found opportunities in another State and I simply walked in to the managers office one day and said here is my resignation. He knew why - the supervisor knew why and the rest of the staff knew why. I did not have to explain anything. I told the supervisor not to come to a small get together that the staff planned for the end of the week. We had a good time without her, the manager showed up and had a good time also. I did like that job, but hated putting up with her self-promoting BS as it had nothing to do with rehabilitating inmates only her power game.Long story short - Let it go. They know and most likely wont change, all you can do is hope your departure sticks in their minds (like a sharp pointy stick).
    IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY (this includes politicians)
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  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Reminds me of an interview I saw a while back. The question of 'why do you do what you do'?, was asked of a Police Sniper. The answer was precisely to the point. It was something to the effect of, "Because some people need to be killed". I know how much this upsets you, your job I mean, but its really true what the others are saying, let it go. If anyone has ever worked for someone that was the world's biggest...fill in the blanks, I have. They have no effect on my life any longer, because I no longer work for them. The same will happen when you leave your job, so just let it go.Now if I could just be rid of the desire to terminate who I currently work for. Thank God for weekends, a good family, and friends!
    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Don't mail it! In all organizations, the character, mood, style and behavior is set at the very top by the chief executive and emulated down the line by * kissing managers who want to conform and to curry favor back up the line.Your letter will only confirm to him in black and white that you really are the nail sticking up, that needed to be hammered down. We need team players here, get with the program or get out is the message.Whistle blowers and white paper writers are frowned upon and acted against everywhere.Management justifies their cruel behavior by labelling these people as poor performing, malcontents and dead wood. They act to discredit their victim's abilities and past performance and encourage them to leave.If this intended letter or comments about this letter are placed in your personnel file it could damage you in future employment where you may be asked to sign a release for access to your personnel file. I will bet you a new Remington 700 that most if not all prospective employers will view whistle blowers as a poor employment risks.Im afraid, my friend, you have to eat some crow and lump it. Principled people and nonconformists can only suffer in organizations.
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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Don't mail it! In all organizations, the character, mood, style and behavior is set at the very top by the chief executive and emulated down the line by * kissing managers who want to conform and to curry favor back up the line.Your letter will only confirm to him in black and white that you really are the nail sticking up, that needed to be hammered down. We need team players here, get with the program or get out is the message.Whistle blowers and white paper writers are frowned upon and acted against everywhere.Management justifies their cruel behavior by labelling these people as poor performing, malcontents and dead wood. They act to discredit their victim's abilities and past performance and encourage them to leave.If this intended letter or comments about this letter are placed in your personnel file it could damage you in future employment where you may be asked to sign a release for access to your personnel file. I will bet you a new Remington 700 that most if not all prospective employers will view whistle blowers as a poor employment risks.Im afraid, my friend, you have to eat some crow and lump it. Principled people and nonconformists can only suffer in organizations.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    My last boss was so bad that ex-employees knew he would very likely lie about them to co-workers and customers. In one case, our head of web development left, and when he did so he sent polite e-mailed notes to his customers explaining in truthful terms that he would no longer be handling their accounts. This prevented the boss from pretending that the knowledgable guy was still handling their accounts as long as possible, while mismanagement or dropped balls might be accruing to his reputation. When I left him, I told the office manager that while I was somewhat dissatisfied because I had been prevented from running my own department according to my quality principles, I was not a quitter. So they laid me off without severence. But subsequently they claimed on two occasions that a) I had quit and b) that I had been terminated for cause, neither of which was true because I collected unemployment for a while, something you can't do if the government finds you weren't laid off. There is a difference between how you handle personality clash and how you handle true cases of dishonesty. There are people in this town who had warned some of us in marketing management to reconsider our decisions to go to work there. They were right, and that's why this guy's average employee tenure is about one year and gone. I lasted slightly over a year, although my background includes senior administrative assistant to the head of Strategic Planning for the Disney company (in the 80s). If you simply have a problem with authority figures, you'll find out, because in the future you'll find something wrong with all of your bosses and wind up having to be self employed. But that's not (I assume) what we're talking about here. When you said dishonest it rang certain bells for me. In most situations, everybody else who advises walking away is right. And don't make the anonymous call. He'll suspect you did it, which could be worse for you.
    "The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
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  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    there are ways around everything, If you leave, keep a copy of the resignation letter. This will avoid the next company's call to your ex-supervisor, thus, eliminating any negative feedback. If any letters or correspondence is directed to you, i.e. Fake Praise or Screw You letters, keep them as well. These should accompany your resume upon request for references. This covers your bridge for the next time you need it.
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  • whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Who you trying to kid, boeboe? You're not going anywhere. You've willingly put up with this for 18 years and that tells me you are now part of the problem.It felt good to write your letter, I know, but you wrote it to meet your own needs. You are disappointed with yourself and had to share it with someone. Who better than friends.If you intend to quit, and I've said what I think about that, walk off. Don't play the innocent, because you're not, and it will show.Clouder..
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  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Don't turn in that letter. Such dishonesty and lack of ethics are part of the company culture and your revelations will come as no surprise to the CEO. You will become a "disgruntled former employee," and as others have said these people will be your next references. If you gotta go, just resign. If you can hang in, find another job first. Good Luck!
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  • gap1916gap1916 Member Posts: 4,977
    edited November -1
    If you have specific dates, names and situations put them into the document. Make sure H/R and Corp. gets a copy. Do not leave your present position untill you have secured your next postion. Stay the full exit period ie 2 weeks 4 weeks etc. Make sure your family is behind you 100%. My 2 cents.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Clouder --There are a lot of people like you just described. I call this type of person "institutionalized" -- by his or her company's culture and environment. Chances are, if nothing changes, they'll never find the courage or whatever it takes to leave. Been there too long. I've also known people in that situation to hang on through thick and thin, only to wind up getting laid off and having a heart attack in the Personnel Office at the exit interview. In a way I feel lucky to have had longterm permanent work but also contract and temporary assignments. Changing jobs, interviewing, resume preparation, are all good experience and that experience reduces the stress level when it comes time for a change, whether it's your own idea or not. You always know you'll come out okay in the end. There is no such thing as job security anymore, at least not like there used to be. In this economy, it's tough to have another job lined up when it's time to go, but it's still good advice. And they're still selling lots of copies of "What Color Is Your Parachute?" If things continue to deteriorate between boeboe and his supers, he may not get to leave on his own timing. He may not go, but he may be gone, so to speak. So it still doesn't hurt to think about that.
    "The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Clouder --There are a lot of people like you just described. I call this type of person "institutionalized" -- by his or her company's culture and environment. Chances are, if nothing changes, they'll never find the courage or whatever it takes to leave. Been there too long. I've also known people in that situation to hang on through thick and thin, only to wind up getting laid off and having a heart attack in the Personnel Office at the exit interview. In a way I feel lucky to have had longterm permanent work but also contract and temporary assignments. Changing jobs, interviewing, resume preparation, are all good experience and that experience reduces the stress level when it comes time for a change, whether it's your own idea or not. You always know you'll come out okay in the end. There is no such thing as job security anymore, at least not like there used to be. In this economy, it's tough to have another job lined up when it's time to go, but it's still good advice. And they're still selling lots of copies of "What Color Is Your Parachute?" If things continue to deteriorate between boeboe and his supers, he may not get to leave on his own timing. He may not go, but he may be gone, so to speak. So it still doesn't hurt to think about that.
    "The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
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  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    I'm not sure if this is really part of the influence of the very top or not. The present CEO (been there about a year) sure talks like he is trying to weed out this type of activity. But maybe it's just talk. Hard to tell.I let two members of my former crew see it and they want me to turn it in. Still struggling with it.I do plan on nailing the new job firmly down before I do anything. And I sure think it's a good opportunity. In the new job I will be doing vendor quality assurance audits for SAE as an independent contractor, work an average of three days per week (or 120 day per year) and make about 50K/year. It sounds like a job I can retire into easily. So Clouder, I am serious about this. I'm thiking I'd be crazy not to take the new job. Sure, I'd be making a few thousand less per year, but I'd gain a lot of spare time I don't have now.I do appreciate your valuable insight, all of you. It has given me things to consider, for sure. Thanks!
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