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Life Under Israeli Occupation (C&P)

HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
edited February 2004 in General Discussion
Monday, February 16, 2004

Int'l observer: IDF, settlers are 'cleansing' Hebron's H-2 area
By Arnon Regular, Haaretz Correspondent

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/394496.html

"The activity of the settlers and the army in the H-2 area of Hebron is creating an irreversible situation. In a sense, cleansing is being carried out. In other words, if the situation continues for another few years, the result will be that no Palestinians will remain there. It is a miracle they have managed to remain there until now."
This view of the situation in the Israeli-controlled area of Hebron comes from Jan Kristensen, the former head of the Temporary International Presence in Hebron (TIPH), who completed his one-year term of office last week. Kristensen, 58, is a former lieutenant colonel in the Norwegian army and has also held various positions in UNIFIL (the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon).

H-2, the 4.3 square kilometers of Hebron assigned to Israeli control by the Hebron Agreement, contains all of the city's Jewish settlers. When the intifada began, it had 35,000 Palestinian residents. Kristensen had no exact figures for how many Palestinians have since left but he said, "more and more people are leaving the area and it is effectively being emptied. The settlers' activities, which are aimed at causing the Palestinians to leave, and the army's activities, which impose severe restrictions, create an irreversible reality. Anyone whose economic situation permits him to do so, leaves.

"There are roadblocks in the area all the time. Once there were more than 100 days of continuous curfew, with only brief interruptions. The markets are closed, the roads are closed, and if you're a Palestinian who does not appear on the lists, you can't enter. The settlers go out almost every night and attack those who live near them. They break windows, cause damage and effectively force the Palestinians to leave the area.

"I don't see how this situation can change, and I see no possibility that the IDF will once again open the area and enable the Palestinians in it to lead normal lives. Personally, I don't believe it is possible for normal life to exist in Hebron between the communities, even if there are agreements between the leaders."

TIPH, originally established after Baruch Goldstein murdered 29 Muslim
worshipers in Hebron in 1994, is comprised of volunteer observers from six countries - Norway, which runs the operation, Italy, Denmark, Turkey, Sweden and Switzerland. Its annual budget is about $2 million, not including the observers' salaries, which are paid directly by their governments.

The 71 unarmed observers patrol the city under an agreement between
Israel, the Palestinians and the other six nations concerned the UN is not involved. Almost no one in Hebron - not Israelis, Palestinians nor international agencies - believe TIPH has done much good, yet inertia has caused its mandate to be renewed every three months.

For its European sponsors, its main value lies in creating a precedent for international observers in the territories. It was fear of such a precedent that made Israel insist that neither the UN nor any other international agency be involved.

"I ask myself all the time what we are doing in Hebron, but we are there on the assumption that there are agreements between the parties, and as far as I understand it, we change the situation," Kristensen said.

"We succeeded in changing the army's approach to curfews in the city and to how to leave civilians outside the cycle of violence. I understand why the commander of the [IDF's] Hebron Brigade has to act - after all, more than 30 suicide bombers have come from the city. But there is no reason for a curfew on all the inhabitants. We also raised the matter of house demolitions. To destroy a five- or six-story building and leave more than 100 residents homeless because someone hid there is unjust and unacceptable.

"I view our role as documenting events for the future. We transfer this documentation to the countries that sent us ... Residents of Palestinian houses that are destroyed frequently ask us why we didn't prevent the destruction, and it's hard to explain to them that we can't intervene."

Over the last year, TIPH has branched out into humanitarian activity, such as transporting students and teachers to schools during curfews. This has infuriated the settlers, and Kristensen said that settler attacks on TIPH personnel rose 60 percent in July-December 2003 compared to the first half of the year.

There have been "many hundreds of incidents," he said, ranging from
spitting and cursing through blocked cars to being pelted with eggs and stones.

The IDF Spokesman responded: "The unique and complicated situation in
Hebron, along with the activities of a murderous terror infrastructure
belonging to Hamas and Islamic Jihad, obliged the IDF to act vigorously against terrorism in the city. The IDF's activities, which followed a series of deadly attacks deep inside Israel, admittedly caused harm and unpleasantness to the civilian population. But even during this period, the IDF enabled the orderly functioning of the education and health systems and enabled movement for humanitarian purposes at all times. Following the grave damage that the city's terrorist organizations suffered in 2002, the IDF changed its modus operandi in the city, which significantly eased life for the Palestinian residents."

Copyright 2004 Haaretz. All rights reserved





There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.

Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.

Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.

Comments

  • borderguyborderguy Member Posts: 387 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I guess the Palastinians should have become Isreali Citizens when they were given the chance.
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    Then you also support the Bush initiative to permit the Hispanic illegal immigrants obtaining citizenship as was done under Ronnie? [;)]




    There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.

    Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.

    Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
  • borderguyborderguy Member Posts: 387 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    No..We didn't take over Mexico as the Isrealis did the Palistinians.

    I support returning the troops fron Iraq and using them to take over Baja California.
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    Ahhhh, what is Texas and California? Didn't they originally belong to Mexico? Not sure of my early American history.




    There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.

    Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.

    Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
  • dcon12dcon12 Member Posts: 32,003 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The whole of the US used to belong to someone else. The Indians. I guess we should leave?

    "Right is Right, even is everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it"
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    Dcon12: We can't--the French won't take us.[:D]




    There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.

    Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.

    Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
  • borderguyborderguy Member Posts: 387 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Illegal Mexican Immigration in no way relates to the establishment of Isreal and the offer of Isreali Citizenship to Palastinians in the occupied territory.

    Since you not sure of your American History, Texas and California were aquired from Mexico differently than Isreal aquired their territory.

    The Palastinains there now, chose not to leave. The Illegal Mexican in the US snuck in. There's a difference.
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    Borderguy: What offer of Israeli citizenship to the Palestinians? I'm posting an article on how the Israelis treat the Palestinians, please take a moment to read it.




    There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.

    Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.

    Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,282 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    On the news this morning, Israel rounded up 2500 Palestinians and deported them back across the border,arrested 35 Israeli's for abetting, and recovered 250 stolen cars. A population comparison with Calif., this would work out to 115,000 illegal aliens! God only knows how many stolen cars.
  • p3skykingp3skyking Member Posts: 23,916 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hairy,
    The Jews have one small strip of land. Surrounded on three sides by Arabs and the sea on the other. They seem to be content to stay there. They have been attacked numerous times but have held on (with massive aid from the United States).

    The Palestinians have had opportunity after opportunity to co-exist and prosper with the Israelis as all the other Arabs within the region. They prefer to destroy rather than build. Argue rather than agree, and believe stupid religious dogma than become educated.

    The Israelis can be depended upon to side with us. The Palestinians danced in the street on 9/11.

    I used to think Israel was harsh with the Arabs. Not any more. Take a look at the countries around the area. Israel has turned the desert into a garden. Why have not the Arabs accomplished the same?

    The Arabs have the oil, not Israel. All that wealth and the Middle East is still a consumer market. If Israel wants to light up the Palestinians, more power to them. They don't deserve sympathy. Perhaps someone should tell them that if they don't like the conditions there, MOVE!
  • 96harley96harley Member Posts: 3,992 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well said P3skyking.

    "Save the Whalers, they need jobs too."
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    P3skyking: quote:The Jews have one small strip of land. Surrounded on three sides by Arabs and the sea on the other. They seem to be content to stay there. They have been attacked numerous times but have held on (with massive aid from the United States).

    The Palestinians have had opportunity after opportunity to co-exist and prosper with the Israelis as all the other Arabs within the region. They prefer to destroy rather than build. Argue rather than agree, and believe stupid religious dogma than become educated.

    The Israelis can be depended upon to side with us. The Palestinians danced in the street on 9/11.

    I used to think Israel was harsh with the Arabs. Not any more. Take a look at the countries around the area. Israel has turned the desert into a garden. Why have not the Arabs accomplished the same?

    The Arabs have the oil, not Israel. All that wealth and the Middle East is still a consumer market. If Israel wants to light up the Palestinians, more power to them. They don't deserve sympathy. Perhaps someone should tell them that if they don't like the conditions there, MOVE!

    Let me address the bold items: First, the Israelis are NOT content to stay there; the Green line is the border; the Zionists are taking additional land from the Palestinians--with the complicity of the US. The direct result of this attitude and action will be additional strikes at the Israelis and, when the US is injured, glee on the part of the Palestinians. Easy for anyone to understand, except for Americans.

    Second, "stupid religious dogma"? How about a belief that a dead man comes back to life and becomes a god? Now, that's stupid!

    Third, the Zionists copied the Palestinian farming methods--and with the massive financial aid they received primarily from America, they had the capital to develop the land--which the Palestinians owned. There is a well-known cartoon in the Middle East that portrays this canard--it shows an Arab farmer with a sign on the land that says "Ahmed" and a Zionist (in suit and tie) pulling it out of the ground in inserting another sign that reads "Moshe".

    Fourth: The Middle East is a consumer market? Hmm, wonder why then we are paying over $1.60 a gallon for gas here in Floriduh. Gee, where does that oil come from? Wonder who the consumer is? Oh, yeah--we Americans.

    The statement that if the Palestinians don't like the conditions, they should move is exactly what they are trying to do--MOVE BACK TO THEIR HOMES THAT WERE STOLEN FROM THEM.[}:)]









    There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.

    Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.

    Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
  • brier-49brier-49 Member Posts: 7,079 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    hairy, you really need a bigger soap box,mainly taller so your feet dont get stuck in what your throwing.
  • dcon12dcon12 Member Posts: 32,003 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hairy, it is better understood when it is explained in your on words.[:D]

    "Right is Right, even is everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it"
  • Ruger22Ruger22 Member Posts: 385
    edited November -1
    I commend the brave soldiers of the Israeli defense forces and their initiatives against the hezbolah and hamas rodents.
    The brave people of Israel stand against the Bolshevik infested and UN created and run artificial Palestianian so called state. The brave people of Moses who's first covenant with God is a brave testimony to us all. We support them as our only true ally in that turbulent region.
    May God guide every bullet sent forth from the brave Israeli soldiers to the heart of every rodent Hesbulah and Hamas scum. Some people don't realize the connection between BinLaden and the PLO and Arafat. They forget the images of burning Americans tumblings out of skyscrapers on 9/11.
    God bless Israel and its brave people

    Member: NRA, RFC, John Birch Society, American Numismatic Association.
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    124L.gif
    597lr_sm.jpg
    rfcmember.gifnraseal.jpgvo_large.jpg
  • p3skykingp3skyking Member Posts: 23,916 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
    P3skyking: quote:The Jews have one small strip of land. Surrounded on three sides by Arabs and the sea on the other. They seem to be content to stay there. They have been attacked numerous times but have held on (with massive aid from the United States).

    The Palestinians have had opportunity after opportunity to co-exist and prosper with the Israelis as all the other Arabs within the region. They prefer to destroy rather than build. Argue rather than agree, and believe stupid religious dogma than become educated.

    The Israelis can be depended upon to side with us. The Palestinians danced in the street on 9/11.

    I used to think Israel was harsh with the Arabs. Not any more. Take a look at the countries around the area. Israel has turned the desert into a garden. Why have not the Arabs accomplished the same?

    The Arabs have the oil, not Israel. All that wealth and the Middle East is still a consumer market. If Israel wants to light up the Palestinians, more power to them. They don't deserve sympathy. Perhaps someone should tell them that if they don't like the conditions there, MOVE!

    Let me address the bold items: First, the Israelis are NOT content to stay there; the Green line is the border; the Zionists are taking additional land from the Palestinians--with the complicity of the US. The direct result of this attitude and action will be additional strikes at the Israelis and, when the US is injured, glee on the part of the Palestinians. Easy for anyone to understand, except for Americans.

    Second, "stupid religious dogma"? How about a belief that a dead man comes back to life and becomes a god? Now, that's stupid!

    Third, the Zionists copied the Palestinian farming methods--and with the massive financial aid they received primarily from America, they had the capital to develop the land--which the Palestinians owned. There is a well-known cartoon in the Middle East that portrays this canard--it shows an Arab farmer with a sign on the land that says "Ahmed" and a Zionist (in suit and tie) pulling it out of the ground in inserting another sign that reads "Moshe".

    Fourth: The Middle East is a consumer market? Hmm, wonder why then we are paying over $1.60 a gallon for gas here in Floriduh. Gee, where does that oil come from? Wonder who the consumer is? Oh, yeah--we Americans.

    The statement that if the Palestinians don't like the conditions, they should move is exactly what they are trying to do--MOVE BACK TO THEIR HOMES THAT WERE STOLEN FROM THEM.[}:)]









    There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.

    Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.

    Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.



    Hairy,
    Your points don't hold up under even general inspection.

    1. Israel has given back land won during the wars and has stopped the settlements that encroach on Arab land. Sometimes with Israeli againist Israeli.

    2. That's a non-problem. Anytime you choose religious dogma over education, you've lost. Works the same for everyone.

    3. The Arabs don't have enough wealth to do what the Israelis have done? Used Arab farming methods? Well, the Arabs have had ONLY two thousand years to perfect them and make their land produce. Where's their tomato's?

    4. There are basically two type of markets, comsumer (self-explanatory) and producer (again, self-explanatory). Since the Arabs produce nothing except oil for export, their society consumes everything. Israel produces things, IMI for one.

    As to your last point. During the drought in America in the 1930's, Amercans MOVED. The drought in Africa in the 1990's, Africans MOVED. The rise of Nazism in Germany in the 1930's, most that could, MOVED. If conditions are bad, you don't need a bass fiddle upside the head to figure out you need to MOVE.
  • Annie-OAnnie-O Member Posts: 515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    p3skyking very well put![:)]
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    P3skyking: quote:Israel has given back land won during the wars and has stopped the settlements that encroach on Arab land. Sometimes with Israeli againist Israeli.

    I laugh when someone takes a partial truth and then embroiders it to make it seem as if it is the entire truth. First, you are correct in that Israel gave back land it seized during war: The Sinai was returned to Egypt after the initiation of peace talks with Egypt. But Israel still holds under military occupation the Palestinian lands in Gaza, the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and some territory in Lebanon. Your statement is akin to a bank robber stealing $100 Millions and returning $10 dollars--"well, he gave some of it back."

    Israel is STILL building "settlements" on Palestinian land and in the process is pushing the rightful owners off the land. The latest territory grab is through the barrier. Why hasn't anyone in the US government challenged the Israeli policy of taking land that is occupied by Israel (not owned) and allowing Israelis to build on it--then take the water resources, put in roads, assign troops to protect them and put the Palestinians under curfew and checkpoints? Seems to me to be a receipe for cooking up a suicide bomber or two.


    quote:The Arabs don't have enough wealth to do what the Israelis have done? Used Arab farming methods? Well, the Arabs have had ONLY two thousand years to perfect them and make their land produce. Where's their tomato's? Actually, it is olive oil and other products. The land was producing until the Zionist seizure of the land.

    quote: There are basically two type of markets, comsumer (self-explanatory) and producer (again, self-explanatory). Since the Arabs produce nothing except oil for export, their society consumes everything. Israel produces things, IMI for one. I'm swayed by this wonderful comment. Oh well.

    quote:As to your last point. During the drought in America in the 1930's, Amercans MOVED. The drought in Africa in the 1990's, Africans MOVED. The rise of Nazism in Germany in the 1930's, most that could, MOVED. If conditions are bad, you don't need a bass fiddle upside the head to figure out you need to MOVE. It is still THEIR HOMES that are being STOLEN from them--and for some reason, they don't want to agree with that.

    Guess you are right, they need a bass fiddle upside the head--stupid Palestinians, how dare they want justice; how dare they want to live their lives in peace; how dare they object to the steady erosion of their culture; how dare they look at America and ask "Why are you doing this to us? What have we done to you?"


    There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.

    Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.

    Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
  • 96harley96harley Member Posts: 3,992 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ruger/skyking
    Good job! That dead God Hairy doesn't believe in will honor you for your stand. As for me; That God is alive and well and he resides in the hearts of all who ,by faith, accept his son as Saviour.

    "Save the Whalers, they need jobs too."
  • joeaf1911a1joeaf1911a1 Member Posts: 2,962 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hairy: You sure are preaching to the wrong crowd here. Maybe a
    Palestinian web site would apreciate your views. I dont think you
    are getting many converts here.
  • outdoortexasoutdoortexas Member Posts: 4,780
    edited November -1
    "If the people have not vision, they shall surely perish. No man has a right to live who has not in his soul the power to die nobly for a great cause.

    "Let abhorrence be for those who wage wanton or wicked wars, who with ruthless violence oppress the upright and the unoffending.

    "Pay all honor to the preachers of peace who put righteousness above peace.

    "But shame on the creatures who would teach our people that it is anything but base to be unready and unable to defend right, even at need by the sternest of all tests, the test of righteous war, war waged by a high-couraged people with souls attuned to the demands of a lofty ideal.

    "Have these professional pacifists lost every quality of manhood? Are they ignorant of the very meaning of nobility of soul?"

    --Theodore Roosevelt
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    The point is not to necessarily win converts; it is to remove your excuse "I didn't know" which the Germans tried to use in denying knowledge of the Holocaust. [:(]




    There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.

    Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.

    Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    P3skyking: An addendum to your comment regarding settlements:

    quote:Knesset panel OKs NIS 96 million for E. Jerusalem settlements

    17.2.2004 | 08:14
    Zvi Zrahiya


    The Knesset Finance Committee on Monday approved an extra NIS 96 million budget for settlements and Jewish building in East Jerusalem.

    The money will come from the Housing Ministry budget, where it had been mostly earmarked to aid poor people in need of housing.

    NIS 55 million of the sum had been allocated for building apartments and public buildings. It will instead serve for loans to build new housing in the settlements. (Emphasis added for CLARITY)

    NIS 4 million will be used to protect homes of Jews in East Jerusalem.

    In total, the ministry has allocated NIS 29 million of its 2004 budget for protecting Jewish homes in East Jerusalem, including the Old City home of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

    Eight coalition MKs voted in favor of allocating the money to settlements while seven opposition MKs voted against. Two Shinui lawmakers were absent from the debate.

    Both the coalition and the opposition hastily called in MKs who do not normally sit on the committee to take the place of absentees.

    The opposition charged the coalition with underhanded tactics, saying the vote had not been scheduled. MK Haim Oron (Meretz) said the members had not been given time to peruse the material before the debate.

    "This government is mad. In the morning, it spends hours discussing the rising price of bread; and in the afternoon, the coalition hands over almost NIS 100 million to the settlements. This is further proof that the Sharon government says 'I don't have' when it comes to the poor, but says 'There's no limit to what you can get' when it comes to the settlements."

    Labor MK Isaac Herzog said this was yet another example of the government's twisted thinking. "There is no money for education and no money for bread, but there is money for DVDs," he said. "And there is tons of money to build in the settlements, in places to which most citizens are opposed. This government is leading us to wrack and ruin."

    Committee chair Avraham Hirschson claimed that the money had been promised by the treasury a year ago and that it was merely paying now. National Religious Party MK Nissan Slomiansky said that mortgages were available also for housing in the south of the country.




    There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.

    Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.

    Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
  • bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,866 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    look in the mirror folks. we all came from one of the 12 tribes of israel when the ark landed on earth after the flood. jews are your brothers and so is everyone else. now, on the occupation thing....what everyone seems to forget is that 1000's of years ago philistians conquered israel. as time went on israel was scattered over the earth as God said it would be. then, israel decided to retake their land in 47 as God said it would be. they did. guess who they took it from? the philistians, or, better known today as palestine/palestinians. ok...now, palestine lost and israel moved in. it was a war folks. israel went to the peace treaty signing just like we did on the uss misurroi with japan. but, unlike japan who accepted the terms we laid down, palestine refused to yield to the terms and to this day, they havent signed the treaty establishing that they lost. so...to this day, palestinians live in 'camps.' there is barbed wire around them because they are the defeated enemy. they whine and want privilages, so israel allows them to blend in with israel with jobs outside their camps and areas designated as confinment areas (gaza, west bank, etc...) pretty nice to me! so, when israel decides to expand, the losing side whines and starts revolting. lets see, if pow's from afganistan started to revolt in cuba, what to do you supppose our marines should do? give them jobs? so, palestinians kill jews in a revolt and the world wonders who the bad guys are? if palestine would just admit defeat and blend in to society, all would be well, but they still think israel is theres. history shows that the original philistines were from syria and expanded west. question...why dont the palestinians move back to syria? afterall, they are syrian by nature and by history. nope, they want israel. thus there is friction and why the war is still technically on the books. thats why there is fighting. the conquered foe refuse to recognize israel as the winners of the war and refuse to allow syrian borders to shrink back to their original points on the old map. bingo, middle east war. ok, youre all educated now. so, who do you think we should root for? the winners or the losers? i got my vote ready. send those pagan ala worshipers back to syria and let the God of israel and His people be triumphant in their land. btw...if mexico invaded texas, wouldnt you push them back? or would you defeat them, let them stay, give them jobs, and say live with us, and be part of us, and if they didnt like it, they riot and you let them?
    Retired Naval Aviation
    Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
    Former NSSA All American
    Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
    MO, CT, VA.
  • Annie-OAnnie-O Member Posts: 515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Palestinian history 101

    Palestine has never existed . . . as an autonomous entity.
    There is no language known as Palestinian.
    There is no distinct Palestinian culture.

    There has never been a land known as Palestine
    governed by Palestinians.

    Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians
    (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.

    Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of one percent of the landmass. But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today . . . No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough.

    -- from "Myths of the Middle East", Joseph Farah,
    Arab-American editor and journalist,
    WorldNetDaily.Com, 11 October 2000

    From the end of the Jewish state in antiquity to the beginning of British rule, the area now designated by the name Palestine was not a country and had no frontiers, only administrative boundaries..
    -- Professor Bernard Lewis,
    Commentary Magazine, January 1975

    Talk and writing about Israel and the Middle East feature the nouns "Palestine" and Palestinian", and the phrases "Palestinian territory" and even "Israeli-occupied Palestinian territory". All too often, these terms are used with regard to their historical or geographical meaning, so that the usage creates illusions rather than clarifies reality.





    WHAT DOES "PALESTINE" MEAN?

    It has never been the name of a nation or state. It is a geographical term, used to designate the region at those times in history when there is no nation or state there.

    The word itself derives from "Peleshet", a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into English as "Philistine". The Philistines were mediterranean people originating from Asia Minor and Greek localities. They reached the southern coast of Israel in several waves. One group arrived in the pre-patriarchal period and settled south of Beersheba in Gerar where they came into conflict with Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael. Another group, coming from Crete after being repulsed from an attempted invasion of Egypt by Rameses III in 1194 BCE, seized the southern coastal area, where they founded five settlements (Gaza, Ascalon, Ashdod, Ekron and Gat). In the Persian and Greek periods, foreign settlers - chiefly from the Mediterranean islands - overran the Philistine districts. From the time of Herodotus, Greeks called the eastern coast of the Mediterranean "Syria Palaestina".

    The Philistines were not Arabs nor even Semites, they were most closely related to the Greeks. They did not speak Arabic. They had no connection, ethnic, linguistic or historical with Arabia or Arabs. The name "Falastin" that Arabs today use for "Palestine" is not an Arabic name. It is the Arab pronunciation of the Greco-Roman "Palastina"; which is derived from the Peleshet, (root Pelesh) which was a general term meaning "dividers", "penetrators" or "invaders". This referred to the Philistine's invasion and conquest of the coast from the sea.

    The use of the term "Palestinian" for an Arab ethnic group is a modern political creation which has no basis in fact - and had never had any international or academic credibility before 1967.

    HOW DID THE LAND OF ISRAEL BECOME "PALESTINE"?

    In the First Century CE, the Romans crushed the independent kingdom of Judea. After the failed rebellion of Bar Kokhba in the Second Century CE, the Roman Emperor Hadrian determined to wipe out the identity of Israel-Judah-Judea. Therefore, he took the name Palastina and imposed it on all the Land of Israel. At the same time, he changed the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina.

    The Romans killed many Jews and sold many more in slavery. Some of those
    who survived still alive and free left the devastated country, but there was never a complete abandonment of the Land. There was never a time when there were not Jews and Jewish communities, though the size and conditions of those
    communities fluctuated greatly.

    THE HISTORY OF PALESTINE

    Thousands of years before the Romans invented "Palastina" the land had been known as "Canaan". The Canaanites had many tiny city-states, each one at times independent and at times a vassal of an Egyptian or Hittite king. The Canaanites never united into a state. After the Exodus from Egypt probably in the Thirteenth Century BCE but perhaps earlier -- , the Children of Israel settled in the land of Canaan. There they formed first a tribal confederation, and then the biblical kingdoms of Israel and Judah, and the post-biblical kingdom of Judea.

    From the beginning of history to this day, Israel-Judah-Judea has the only united, independent, sovereign nation-state that ever existed in "Palestine" west of the Jordan River. (In biblical times, Ammon, Moab and Edom as well as Israel had land east of the Jordan, but they disappeared in antiquity and no other nation took their place until the British invented Trans-Jordan in the 1920s.)

    After the Roman conquest of Judea, "Palastina" became a province of the pagan Roman Empire and then of the Christian Byzantine Empire, and very briefly of the Zoroastrian Persian Empire. In 638 CE, an Arab-Muslim Caliph took Palastina away from the Byzantine Empire and made it part of an Arab-Muslim Empire. The Arabs, who had no name of their own for this region, adopted the Greco-Roman name Palastina, that they pronounced "Falastin".

    In that period, much of the mixed population of Palastina was forced to convert to Islam and adopted the Arabic language. They were subjects of a distant Caliph who ruled them from his capital, that was first in Damascus and later in Baghdad. They did not become a nation or an independent state, or develop a distinct society or culture.

    In 1099, Christian Crusaders from Europe conquered Palestina-Falastin. After 1099, it was never again under Arab rule. The Christian Crusader kingdom was politically independent, but never developed a national identity. It remained a military outpost of Christian Europe, and lasted less than 100 years. Thereafter, Palestine was joined to Syria as a subject province first of the Mameluks, ethnically mixed slave-warriors whose center was in Egypt, and then of the Ottoman Turks, whose capital was in Istanbul.

    During the First World War, the British took Palestine from the Ottoman Turks. At the end of the war, the Ottoman Empire collapsed and among its subject provinces "Palestine" was assigned to the British, to govern temporarily as a mandate from the League of Nations.

    THE JEWISH NATIONAL HOME

    Travelers to Palestine from the Western world left records of what they saw there. The theme throughout their reports is dismal: The land was empty, neglected, abandoned, desolate, fallen into ruins.


    Nothing there [Jerusalem] to be seen but a little of the old walls which is yet remaining and all the rest is grass, moss and weeds
    -- English pilgrim in 1590
    The country is in a considerable degree empty of inhabitants and therefore its greatest need is of a body of population"
    -- British consul in 1857

    There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent [valley of Jezreel] -- not for 30 miles in either direction. . . . One may ride ten miles hereabouts and not see ten human beings.

    For the sort of solitude to make one dreary, come to Galilee . . .

    Nazareth is forlorn . . . Jericho lies a moldering ruin . . . Bethlehem and Bethany, in their poverty and humiliation... untenanted by any living creature . . .

    A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds . . a silent, mournful expanse . . . a desolation . . . . We never saw a human being on the whole route . . . . Hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil had almost deserted the country . . . .

    Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes . . . desolate and unlovely . . .

    -- Mark Twain, The Innocents Abroad, 1867
    The restoration of the "desolate and unlovely" land began in the latter half of the Nineteenth Century with the first Jewish pioneers. Their labors created newer and better conditions and opportunities, which in turn attracted migrants from many parts of the Middle East, both Arabs and others.
    The Balfour Declaration of 1917, confirmed by the League of Nations Mandate, commited the British Government to the principle that "His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a Jewish National Home, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object. . . . " It was specified both that this area be open to "close Jewish settlement" and that the rights of all inhabitants already in the country be preserved and protected.

    Mandate Palestine originally included all of what is now Jordan, as well as all of what is now Israel, and the territories between them. However, when Great Britain's prot?g? Emir Abdullah was forced to leave the ancestral Hashemite domain in Arabia, the British created a realm for him that included all of Manfate Palestine east of the Jordan River. There was no traditional or historic Arab name for this land, so it was called after the river: first Trans-Jordan and later Jordan.

    By this political act, that violated the conditions of the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate, the British cut more than 75 percent out of the Jewish National Home. No Jew has ever been permitted to reside in Trans-Jordan/Jordan.

    Less than 25 percent then remained of Mandate Palestine, and even in this remnant, the British violated the Balfour and Mandate requirements for a "Jewish National Home" and for "close Jewish settlement". They progressively restricted where Jews could buy land, where they could live, build, farm or work.

    After the Six-Day War in 1967, Israel was finally able to settle some small part of those lands from which the Jews had been debarred by the British. Successive British governments regularly condemn their settlement as "illegal". In truth, it was the British who had acted illegally in banning Jews from these parts of the Jewish National Home.


    WHO IS A PALESTINIAN?

    During the period of the Mandate, it was the Jewish population that was known as "Palestinians" including those who served in the British Army in World War II.

    British policy was to curtail their numbers and progressively limit Jewish immigration. By 1939, the White Paper virtually put an end to admission of Jews to Palestine. This policy was imposed the most stringently at the very time this Home was most desperately needed -- after the rise of Nazi power in Europe. Jews who might have developed the empty lands of Palestine and left progeny there, instead died in the gas chambers of Europe or in the seas they were trying to cross to the Promised Land.

    At the same time that the British slammed the gates on Jews, they permitted or ignored massive illegal immigration into Western Palestine from Arab countries Jordan, Syria, Egypt, North Africa. In 1939, Winston Churchill noted that "So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied . . . ." Exact population statistics may be problematic, but it seems that by 1947 the number of Arabs west of the Jordan River was approximately triple of what it had been in 1900.

    The current myth is that these Arabs were long established in Palestine, until the Jews came and "displaced" them. The fact is, that recent Arab immigration into Palestine "displaced" the Jews. That the massive increase in Arab population was very recent is attested by the ruling of the United Nations: That any Arab who had lived in Palestine for two years and then left in 1948 qualifies as a "Palestinian refugees".

    Casual use of population statistics for Jews and Arabs in Palestine rarely consider how the proportions came to be. One factor was the British policy of keeping out Jews while bringing in Arabs. Another factor was the violence used to kill or drive out Jews even where they had been long established.

    For one example: The Jewish connection with Hebron goes back to Abraham, and there has been an Israelite/Jewish community there since Joshua long before it was King David's first capital. In 1929, Arab rioters with the passive consent of the British -- killed or drove out virtually the entire Jewish community.

    For another example: In 1948, Trans-Jordan seized much of Judea and Samaria (which they called The West Bank) and East Jerusalem and the Old City. They killed or drove out every Jew.

    It is now often proposed as a principle of international law and morality that all places that the British and the Arabs rendered Judenrein must forever remain so. In contrast, Israel eventually allotted 17 percent of Mandate Palestine has a large and growing population of Arab citizens.

    FROM PALESTINE TO ISRAEL

    What was to become of "Palestine" after the Mandate? This question was taken up by various British and international commissions and other bodies, culminating with the United Nations in 1947. During the various deliberations, Arab officials, spokesmen and writers expressed their views on "Palestine".

    "There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. . . . Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it."

    -- Local Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937

    "There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not"

    -- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian to
    Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, 1946
    "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
    -- Delegate of Saudi Arabia to the
    United Nations Security Council, 1956,

    By 1948, the Arabs had still not yet discovered their ancient nation of Falastin. When they were offered half of Palestine west of the Jordan River for a state, the offer was violently rejected. Six Arab states launched a war of annihilation against the nascent State of Israel. Their purpose was not to establish an independent Falastin. Their aim was to partition western Palestine amongst themselves.

    They did not succeed in killing Israel, but Trans-Jordan succeeded in taking Judea and Samaria (West Bank) and East Jerusalem, killing or driving out all the Jews who had lived in those places, and banning Jews of all nations from Jewish holy places. Egypt succeeded in taking the Gaza Strip. These two Arab states held these lands until 1967. Then they launched another war of annihilation against Israel, and in consequence lost the lands they had taken by war in 1948.

    During those 19 years, 1948-1967, Jordan and Egypt never offered to surrendar those lands to make up an independent state of Falastin. The "Palestinians" never sought it. Nobody in the world ever suggested it, much less demanded it.

    Finally, in 1964, the Palestine Liberation Movement was founded, with a charter that proclaimed its sole purpose to be the destruction of Israel. To that end it helped to precipitate the Arab attack on Israel in 1967.

    The outcome of that attack then inspired an alteration in public rhetoric. As propaganda, it sounds better to speak of the liberation of Falastin than of the destruction of Israel. Much of the world, governments and media and public opinion, accept virtually without question of serious analysis the new-sprung myth of an Arab nation of Falastin, whose territory is unlawfully occupied by the Jews.

    Since the end of World War I, the Arabs of the Middle East and North Africa have been given independent states in 99.5 percent of the land they claimed. Lord Balfour once expressed his hope that when the Arabs had been given so much, they would "not begrudge" the Jews the "little notch" promised to them.

    [Some of the material cited above is drawn from the book From Time Immemorial by Joan Peters.].

    Source: This essay is from the 15 February issue of "Time to Speak",
    This page was produced by Joseph E. Katz
    Middle Eastern Political and Religious History Analyst
    Brooklyn, New York
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  • outdoortexasoutdoortexas Member Posts: 4,780
    edited November -1
    Good work Annie!
    Really like this last part...

    Quote:
    During those 19 years, 1948-1967, Jordan and Egypt never offered to surrendar those lands to make up an independent state of Falastin. The "Palestinians" never sought it. Nobody in the world ever suggested it, much less demanded it.

    Finally, in 1964, the Palestine Liberation Movement was founded, with a charter that proclaimed its sole purpose to be the destruction of Israel. To that end it helped to precipitate the Arab attack on Israel in 1967.

    The outcome of that attack then inspired an alteration in public rhetoric. As propaganda, it sounds better to speak of the liberation of Falastin than of the destruction of Israel. Much of the world, governments and media and public opinion, accept virtually without question of serious analysis the new-sprung myth of an Arab nation of Falastin, whose territory is unlawfully occupied by the Jews.

    Since the end of World War I, the Arabs of the Middle East and North Africa have been given independent states in 99.5 percent of the land they claimed. Lord Balfour once expressed his hope that when the Arabs had been given so much, they would "not begrudge" the Jews the "little notch" promised to them.
  • PinheadPinhead Member Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My oh My. Somebody has been studying history. Its a shame that the truth would dare be expressed when it's more popular to tell the myths and "spin" versions designed to hide the fact that the only thing holding up a "Palistine" nation is the quote "palistinians" themselves. The thing holding up this creation is that the plo has so far refused to recognize the right of the Nation of Israel and the Israelie people to live their lives in peace. The only thing that they have stayed consistently with is their statement that they will continue to attack until Israel and the Israelie people are wiped from the face of the earth. I am surprised that Israel has so far been as patient as she has been. By the way, that dead man you dimissed, HE will come back soon and those who have rejected HIM will know that HE is King of Kings, and Lord of Lords--but for those who have rejected HIM it will be too late. I pray that each and every one who has spoken against and has spoken against HIM will repent and seek their salvation before it is too late. Jesus Christ is the only answer for all mankind-arab, jew or gentile.
  • bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,866 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    follow the chain back to the war when israel was sacked. who took israel? and who is still there? game over.
    Retired Naval Aviation
    Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
    Former NSSA All American
    Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
    MO, CT, VA.
  • 96harley96harley Member Posts: 3,992 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Pinhead, you da man. Preach it brother. Good job.

    "Save the Whalers, they need jobs too."
  • bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,866 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    time to see your local rabbi folks. and serve a tour in the israeli army! or at lest train with them them.

    former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.
    Retired Naval Aviation
    Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
    Former NSSA All American
    Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
    MO, CT, VA.
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