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Gruntled,our DD-214 wont do us any good after Jan 1 2003 for buying a handgun in Kalifornia. You will need to take the new Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) course. The existing Basic Firearms Safety Certificate (BFSC) which was needed if you didnt have a DD-214 will also not be valid any longer even though it was issued for life. The new HSC requires class instruction and a test. It's good for 5 years and costs $25. Hondo
hondo,
Thats some CA bull$h!t there!!! I am so darn glad I'm not getting stationed in Pendleton I cant describe it. I feel for people that have to live there, but dont want to live there.
Dont worry about it Bee. Give me one of your Savage rifles, and Ill get you the answers to the test.
"The powers delegated by the proposed constitution to the federal governmentare few and defined, and will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace negotiation, and foreign commerce"
-James Madison
i have had some pheasant hunters at my place once that damn sure need some safety lessons . after that one time, any others that come get told "if you shoot at me I SHOOT BACK AND I DONT MISS" and i also tell them "there aint no damn pheasant worth somebody getting shot at there will be others you can shoot at that will allow you to shoot in a safe direction!".......some people just lose all sence when a game animal appears. beit buck fever pheasant fever or what ever.
Guess i know what geraldo revera (sp) felt like when a rifle bullet goes wizzing by you or shotgun bbs singing just over your head.
doc
PS here in SD if you are a first time archery hunter here you have to take a course first before you can even get a license but any tom dick or harry can get a rifle license with out taking a safety course
I dont give my guns without somebody getting hurt!
Ryan, hope you can make it to Iowa sometime for a hunt...but unless you're born prior to 1967 you would need to take the course. This date varies from state to state. I learned hunting from my father who was a WWII Navy tail gunner in an SBD. He didn't teach me everything I needed to know. When my two son's came of hunting age I went with them to a course...I was amazed at what I didn't know. I thought I had the experience, but not all of it was the correct experience. Determined to teach my son's the proper and ehtical ways of hunting, I became a Hunter Education Instructor and an NRA Firearm Instructor. The process of acquiring knowlege is on going...I swear I learned something new everytime I teach a class. I would challenge you to go to the course for no other reason than to get the certificate to hunt in other states....if you can come away from the class and not see the value....I'll buy you a steak dinner.
OK, let's clear up some facts....Hunter Education Courses are pretty much the same from state to state. The presentation one receives in one class could be better or worse than another class...why? Because of the thousands of volunteer instructors, each person has a different style and teaching technique....but the materials are pretty much the same. This program was originally developed years ago through the NRA. Today the program is handled through state game departments. Much of the money to fund this comes from Pitman-Robertson Funds...(that's the taxes on guns & ammo). If you receive a Hunter Education certificate in any state, it is good nationwide in all states.
Hunter Education course is not the same as a firearm safety course and should not be mis-represented as one. It deals with a variety of topics from ethics to survival. It is a short comprehensive 10 hour course designed to give a non-hunter or inexperienced person the basics needed for a safe hunting experience. In Europe a course like this requires months of classroom, conservation field work, and a shooting proficientcy test before you can even get a hunting license. So a 10 hour course is peanuts compared to that.
Gun Safety courses are far more focused on firearms and their safe use. The NRA has the premier programs for this type of class. Firearm safety courses may be required in some states to obtain a CCW permit. Some places require this for the purchase of a firearm. A Hunter Education Certificate will not be accepted. Gun Safety courses may be specialized to a specific type of firearm....shotgun, pistol, rifle, muzzleloader, muzzleloader pistol, and so forth.
223 believer,
Dribbling takes coordination, timing, and practice. Gun safety only takes knowing it, learing it, and putting it to use. It does not take coordination, timing, or practice.
I really must admit, I'm surprised at the amount of people here that think they need to relearn safety. I cant for the life of me understand how anyone can know something as basic as 1)Never point a weapon at anything you dont intend to shoot, 2) Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire, 3) Keep the weapon on safe until you are ready to fire, 4) Treat every weapon as if it were loaded, etc. etc. and think that they need to be taught that again. What the heck is up with that? Anyone here an idiot? 5) Never shoot at anything unless you have visual verification of your target. 6) Maintain constant muzzle awareness. Cease fire Cease fire!, Shooters make a condition four weapon, coaches check 'em! Clear on the left!, clear on the right! Shooters step back off the firing line and take a seat on the ready bench, keeping your muzzle pointed in the air! Man, I have the worst memory of anyone, but you know what? I could tell you enough about safety from all the repetition I've had drilled into my head that I probably mumble it in my sleep. NO!!! I dont need to take another class on hunters safety, and I can bet most of you dont either! This is starting to sound like a bunch of paranoid shooters needing reinforced with a little hug and a safety class just to make them feel good about handling a gun before stepping up to the firing line for the first shot on prequal day. Have you learned safety? Yes? Good, you're done, implement it and dont ever forget it! How could you forget it? You have to be a complete moron to not know any of the 5 rules of safe weapons handling I listed above, #5 & 6 just thrown in for the hunters. With those first 4 rules obeyed, you will never have to worry about hurting anything other than an intended target while hunting, done deal. Safety class completed, heres your certificate.
Rembrandt,
I'd love to make it out to hunt with you sometime, idsman75 has really good things to say about you. Just so you all know, I have taken my Hunter's Safety Course, was fooling around with the card in my wallet earlier today at work. I completed my course November 10 1979. I would never be without the card because I take my hunting that seriously, and would be really ticked to know I couldnt get a license without it, and am glad I have the card because I plan on hunting the whole country when I retire. I am not required to have the card anywhere other than Colorado, as far as I know. Thing is, I remember a little of what they taught, not much, but a little, and so far as I am concerned, I've learned more from straight up common sense and the manual that came from my Daisy Red Ryder BB gun when I was a kid. The first thing I did was read all the manual, and in it it taught me the rules of safe gun handling. Yes, the BB gun manual taught me that! All the rest of the stuff you learn is like extra credit. If you simply use the 4 safety rules that my book had in it, which are really close to what the Corps teaches, you dont need to worry about a thing. We actually got taught CPR in our hunters safety class. Whats that got to do with gun safety? Is it good to know? Sure it is, but is it needed to handle a gun safely? NO. This is what I'm so earnestly defending: the ability of an intelligent person to go out, buy a gun, take it home, read the manual as to how to operate it, and with the 4 rules I listed previously, never have a problem at all as far as gun safety is concerned. Its the Gods honest truth. No one need someone standing in front of them for 10 hours preaching gun safety, or anything unrelated to guns if you are going to call it gun safety. If it took the Corps that long to teach safe weapons handling techniques, the tax payers would all be speaking German, Japanese, or Russian right now. The Army teaches the same way we do. No 10 hour class is required to learn safety. Give me 20 minutes with one person and they will know everything they NEED to know about handling the gun they have safely.
In every profession, practice on basics are essential to keep the edge on what is required when executing what has been learned.
Hunters need to be reminded what are the basic safety practices when handling loaded weapons.
Since most hunters hunt seasonally it stands to reason some or all would benefit from practicin some gun safe handling course.
Since handling potentially deadly weapons around other individuals during hunting season, the safety of all concerned should be of the utmost importance.
Never mind about the inconvenience a safety course causes individuals, reminding safe handling and use of weapons is a sound and responsible way for hunters to insure and protect fellow hunters safety in the field.
"The great object is that every man.... everyone who is able may have a gun." Patrick Henry
When we bought the wife her harley she took the riding course i took it with her so she would be relaxed..I have been riding for 20 years and i still learned something out of it...I think it's a good idea if someone has never owned a gun or never hunted....When i went to one with my friends son it still refreshed me on things we as long time hunters take for granted...
Harleeman1030@aol.com
Be quiet honey i know what i am doing ...
!!!!!KaBOOM!!!!!
Even though I beat firearm safety into their heads, I took my younger brothers to the class. They still have never hunted a day in their life. But I feel better that they at least had the class.For safety did I need to take the class? I don't think so.Did I learn anything from it? Not really.Am I mad at them because I had to take it? Nope.I know alot of LEO's that handle a handgun everyday. They do not know anything about any other firearm, and don't want to. Even though they handle a firearm everyday, would they need a class? Yup
4G&C (rugster), many of those taking the course I taught were urban refugees &/or their off-spring who had never so much as handled a firearm before. The parents were in fact acting responsibly in ensuring the young folks took the course - and many took it for their own knowledge even if they had no interest in hunting themselves.
rugster, I can't speak for the course as offered elsewhere, but ours was 20+ hours. When they walked out of there, they had a good basic introduction to firearms, ethics and safety (both in the woods & firearms in particular). And we had folks who were long-time hunters come in with their wives / kids say they learned from the experience.
Ryan - the course is *Hunter* Safety or *Hunter* Education. As volunteers, the instructors don't have quite the same image - nor audience - as a USMC instructor, so it does take a little longer to ensure the basic safety rules have been imparted, but the bulk of the course is on other matters. And I think that is proper. Many times I was dealing with people whose idea of wilderness was the picnic area at the city zoo. We needed to teach them basic compass & map skills, basic first aid, so many things to help them enjoy the activity and not endanger themselves or others. I'm sure that virtually everyone posting here already knows more than was covered in the course, but I remain convinced of its worth. If, as salzo suggested, there were a uniform exam nationally which would allow an individual to be exempted, I wouldn't have a problem with that. The idea is to make the activity safer, not gum up the works for sportsmen.
I've been a Hunter Ed Instructor for the past 7 Years, and beside being a local instructor, part of the DNR staff who trains instructors..In every class Ive had one or two attending who have been hunting all their life, and dont really think they will learn anything...after each class they have come up to us and stated that they have learned something..even if its a refresher take it..My partner and I just finished a class this week end..One of the attendees was escorted by his grandmother..after the introductions, registration and brief outline of the course she asked if she could take it..she got enrolled..and completed the course..and guess who scored the highest grade..right on..GRANDMAW..we encourage all family members..even if they dont hunt to take it for the firearm safety portion...as for seeing a reduction in accidents..believe me it works..In the Hoosier state they have dropped dramatically...most recent ones of cours from stupity..we tell our students that even if they score a 100% on the test..we use a more serious evaluation prior to passing..WOULD WE LET OUR FAMILY HUNT WITH YOU..In the Hoosier state you must take it if born after December 31, 1986..some states different...but what is ten hours of you time, minimal, remember safety first...nothing is more discouraging then being at your local supply store and watch someone buy a license, clothes, shells and new gun..and say "I'M going hunting.."..my first question is where?..so I can go the opposite direction..Think Safety and keep the tradition going..encourage children and women to get invovled..they will be the ones who keep it going..
For the most part, I agree with Robsguns.
Had to take a BOWHUNTER safety course, due to the fact that I wanted to bowhunt in a state which required a bowhunter safety course. With the amount of information that was taught, the class could have been taught in an hour. The course was 15 hours long, and a complete waste of time FOR ME. At the end of the course, we had to take a test. I could have passed the exam without taking the course, and in my opinion, if you can pass the test, you should not have to take the course.
Just because I pass the exam, that does not make me a "safe" hunter-but on the same token, just because I take the course, that does not make me a safe hunter.If a state feels the necessity of a required course or exam, than so be it. But neither is going to be a guarantee that the person is safe.
Where I hunt, whenever someone wants to join us hunting, we normally GRILL them, making sure they are safe hunters. Newbies to hunting are told that they cant shoot at anything farther than ten yards,they have to be with one of the veterans there first few days out, aND ARE GRILLED WITH OUR OWN LITTLE SAFETY COURSE(IN WHich we go over the same things Rob mentions). Last hunting season, we had someone join us who took a safety course a few months prior to the season. We were a bit lax with him, because of time constraints, and we foolishly relied on the fact that he took a course.
Among other things, he had an accidental discharge(because it was my gun, I went over how to shoot it with him, safety engagement, etc), he jumped out of a tree stand with a loaded shotgun, that was not in the safety position, and he bursted a barrel cause it was plugged with mud(he was using my shotgun, and I must have toild him ten times to make sure he kept the muzzle up off the ground. I noticed that he always walked with the muzzle about two inches off the ground-everytime I saw him do this, I grilled him about keeping the muzzle up).
Unfortunately, this fellow is still planning on hunting-but not with us. Notwithstanding his state mandated hunting course, his "safet course" that he took with us, he is still an unsafe hunter. I dont care if this guy takes a 100 hour course, I doubt he will ever be reliable in the woods with a gun in his hand(or anywhere else, for that matter).
The point is, some people are not going to be safe, though most will be fine, because when you get right down to it, most gun safety issues are common sense-and after being told how to handle a gun, they wont forget it. I just assume that ALL the people do not have to be reduced to doing things because the lowest common denominator is too stupid to understand basic firearm and hunting safety. Those who are in the position of mandating a safety program should realize this, and should come up with something that is the least obtrusive to the would be hunter. Give them a test, and if they pass leave them alone.
If a course is necessary, I think the best course for would be hunters is a strict gun safety class. If the whole point is being safe, then focus on those issues that are most important. Spend a couple of hours hammering home the basic gun safety procedures Robsguns mentioned, and focus on those things only. In a short amount of time, it is important to hammer home gun safety, cause that is really all that matters. Focusing on too many things will make someone more prone to forget the things that are most important.
In the course that I took, about a half hour was spent on tree stand safety, a half hour was spent on safety with respect to knowing your target, and what is beyond, and the rest of the time was spent on hunting techniques(which for the most part, I thought was BS). Since the purpose of the course was supposedly "SAFETY", I would have focused on those areas that were most dangerous, which would be tree stands, and the same things you would focus on if it was a gun class(knowing your target, knowing the dos and donts of using a bow-which I think are the same rules as shooting a gun), and maybe some first aid. All of the other BS did not matter,and was probably detrimental to the purpose of SAFETY, and was really not appropriate for a mandated course that was SUPPOSED to be about safety.
"The powers delegated by the proposed constitution to the federal governmentare few and defined, and will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace negotiation, and foreign commerce"
-James Madison
Yes, a hunter safety course is a good idea. In Ontario, Canada it is mandatory that anyone who wants to take up hunting have to do it. They also have to take a course to get a permit to posses or acquire any type of weapon. I think it is most valuable to young people that have zero to very little experience hunting and/or handling weapons. A little education never hurt anyone..............
I think it's a good idea. Back in the day when fathers taught their sons firearm safety and hunting safety from very early ages, it was a different story. Nowdays, I DO see people who use their loaded, scoped guns as binoculars, and, MAN!!, do I see a lot of guys shooting at ducks 200 yards high, and guys taking "sound shots" at what they perceive to be a deer (by sound!!). I see this on public hunting grounds, which is why the only thing that I will hunt on public land now is geese. I'm lucky enough to have my own nice, big parcel of wilderness, and a guest only gets one chance to screw up. Then again, back in the older days, there was a lot more drinking going on. It does seem to me, though, that most hunting accidents come from inexperience in handling a gun. I have a couple of friends who didn't have hunting families, but took it up and went through hunter's safety, but still needed someone to help them along to learn. I test my children on a regular basis just by walking around the woods with them, them carrying an unloaded gun, and I walk in front of them, to the left, to the right, etc, and dress them down if their muzzle is ointed in the wrong direction. They hate it so much that they get safe real fast. Then they love it and do it to me!! I handed an empty (NO EXCUSE!!) .22 back to my son, once, after taking a couple shots while going past him to get a wrench while I was working on something. I din't put the safety on!! He smirkingly gave me a dressing-down my self. Make it a habit, and everyone watches each other. I have friends who I will not hunt with.
The last thing we need to do, is take advice, or look to Canada to figure out how we are going to do things in the states.
"The powers delegated by the proposed constitution to the federal governmentare few and defined, and will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace negotiation, and foreign commerce"
-James Madison
Iconoclast,
I understand the difference between hunters safety and gun safety, and you got the point across pretty good, good enough that I think I've formed another opinion of the subject. That is this. Hunter Safety should not be required before being allowed to hunt. Gun safety should be a requirement for anyone to take prior to hunting. Notice I dont believe it should be made a requirement for anyone to have a safety class prior to purchasing a gun, although it would be highly suggested. I stand by anyones right to own one, regardless of thier knowledge of guns, its every citizens right. As much as my gut tells me it would be good for some new hunters to have a safety class specific to hunting also, I believe it SHOULD be my right to go to the woods and go hunting without one, and there are likely many like me that have never hunted, but are very competent in the woods and in the handling of guns. The test or exam suggested by others that would make you exempt from taking the entire course on hunters safety is a great idea, the same could be done for gun safety.
I disagree - This is another form of goverment intrusion - I can teach my children how to hunt safely. I am not saying I know everything and I most likely could learn something also, BUT - I WILL NOT STAND FOR MORE GOVERMENT INTRUSION. I took the firearms aqusition course in Canada a while back (just because my Cousin teaches the course) and their text book was as big as a highschool math book. I passed this course, there were 4 people there and 3 of us had experience at the range and hunting, and the other had no experience at all, we all passed. The only problems I saw were in the different types of firearms/ safety devices/ and actions, that needed explaining by the instructor.
The rest is COMMON SENSE, If you buy or are looking at a firearm do you not find the safety and make sure there are no rounds in the mag or chamber. If not, don't you ask the seller to demonstrate same, on an unfamilier weapon. We know the rest - don't point the gun at anything you are not sure you want to destroy da da da da da.......
This is all aimed at the youth so they are programmed to believe they need to get goverment permission and pass somebody else's test in order to use a firearm in any way. I have heard the yonger guys at work grumbling about this here in WA. I told them to change the law, most of these guys have hunted for a few years and now have to jump through one more hoop, because THE LIBERALS WANT THEM TO. Whats next guys. How about we have to not only account for every kill, but for every bullet fired. "Check your Ammo here for an official count - if you do not comply - you will never ever ever get a license again and it will be a felony, so we get to take your firearms also" I am mad already that I WILL REPORT even if I do not make a kill, or "We will not allow you to hunt again!"
IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY (this includes politicians)
I agree.
It's mandatory here in Kansas for those born after 1957 to take the test before they can be issued a hunting license.
This is no replacement for the training that a young adult receives from parents and close relatives. However, I feel that a lot is learned during these courses.
I took mine in 1974, at the same place where I now go, to shoot trap and do most of my benchrest shooting. After all these years I still remember the part of the course where they shot a 5 gallon can full of water at 100 yards with a 30-06. This was to help us visualize the effects of a powerful firearm. All these years I've wondered why they used a 30-06 and not a .223.
Agree. You just can't give shooters enough information. The course goes a long ways in preventing the hunting accidents that cause many to gasp in horror. There is no guarantee that after the course people can do something really stupid...but at least it can be pointed out that they were trained to do it the right way. Beach
I agree that every new hunter should have to take a hunter safety course simply because most young people these day's were not lucky enough to be raised Hunting, Shooting, and Fishing like most of us older guy's. When I got my first shotgun I was 8 years old and hunting and fishing to put food on the table was more of a necessity than just enjoying a sport. I recently took my 15 year old grandson to a hunter safety course and like one of the other posts stated I learn a new thing or two during the course. The only problem I have with Hunter Safety Courses is that some parents bring kids to the course that are to young to pass it and beleive that it makes it some what of a bad experience for them when most of the others old kids pass and get their Hunter Safety Cards and they do not. Just my $.02 worth.
I think every gun owner and hunter should see graphic photos of hunters shot in tree stands or by hunters who fired at noises or movement because there couldn't possibly be anyone else in his part of the woods.
For the first time, I will have to say I disagree with Ryan on this issue. Now Ryan before your blood pressure goes up, "Let me splain it to you Lucy!"
There are some here on this board that are so into guns and hunting that a course or exam may seem like an insult/nuisance to them. BTW, I am somewhat in that corner too, BUT NO. For me it comes down to the issue of personal safety in the field. I take a "Big Picture" view on this topic. God knows that there are a lot of new, inexperienced hunters out there, and dare I say even stupid hunters. I am not so much worried about myself, Ryan, and others on this board that are experienced in the field with guns, as I am with others that don't know their * from a hole in the ground when it comes to hunter safety.
I ask any of you; if enabling/having novice hunters take a hunter safety course that prevents one person (possibly even you) from being injured or killed due to a careless act, do you think it is worth it?
I learned along time ago it is usually the other fellow I have to watch out for. Now, having said that, the other fellow probably needs to watch out for me.
Boomer
"Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."NRA Life Member
Boomer,
Its ok, I've gotten kind of tired of this topic, not that its not a great one, but I've already decided how I feel on this topic, and expressed it as best as I can, so its time to shut my mouth and let others express themselves too.
Comments
Thats some CA bull$h!t there!!! I am so darn glad I'm not getting stationed in Pendleton I cant describe it. I feel for people that have to live there, but dont want to live there.
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
the other kid`s paper.
.218
"The powers delegated by the proposed constitution to the federal governmentare few and defined, and will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace negotiation, and foreign commerce"
-James Madison
Guess i know what geraldo revera (sp) felt like when a rifle bullet goes wizzing by you or shotgun bbs singing just over your head.
doc
PS here in SD if you are a first time archery hunter here you have to take a course first before you can even get a license but any tom dick or harry can get a rifle license with out taking a safety course
I dont give my guns without somebody getting hurt!
Edited by - cowdoc on 08/20/2002 20:49:25
even today. Think about it.
OK, let's clear up some facts....Hunter Education Courses are pretty much the same from state to state. The presentation one receives in one class could be better or worse than another class...why? Because of the thousands of volunteer instructors, each person has a different style and teaching technique....but the materials are pretty much the same. This program was originally developed years ago through the NRA. Today the program is handled through state game departments. Much of the money to fund this comes from Pitman-Robertson Funds...(that's the taxes on guns & ammo). If you receive a Hunter Education certificate in any state, it is good nationwide in all states.
Hunter Education course is not the same as a firearm safety course and should not be mis-represented as one. It deals with a variety of topics from ethics to survival. It is a short comprehensive 10 hour course designed to give a non-hunter or inexperienced person the basics needed for a safe hunting experience. In Europe a course like this requires months of classroom, conservation field work, and a shooting proficientcy test before you can even get a hunting license. So a 10 hour course is peanuts compared to that.
Gun Safety courses are far more focused on firearms and their safe use. The NRA has the premier programs for this type of class. Firearm safety courses may be required in some states to obtain a CCW permit. Some places require this for the purchase of a firearm. A Hunter Education Certificate will not be accepted. Gun Safety courses may be specialized to a specific type of firearm....shotgun, pistol, rifle, muzzleloader, muzzleloader pistol, and so forth.
Dribbling takes coordination, timing, and practice. Gun safety only takes knowing it, learing it, and putting it to use. It does not take coordination, timing, or practice.
I really must admit, I'm surprised at the amount of people here that think they need to relearn safety. I cant for the life of me understand how anyone can know something as basic as 1)Never point a weapon at anything you dont intend to shoot, 2) Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire, 3) Keep the weapon on safe until you are ready to fire, 4) Treat every weapon as if it were loaded, etc. etc. and think that they need to be taught that again. What the heck is up with that? Anyone here an idiot? 5) Never shoot at anything unless you have visual verification of your target. 6) Maintain constant muzzle awareness. Cease fire Cease fire!, Shooters make a condition four weapon, coaches check 'em! Clear on the left!, clear on the right! Shooters step back off the firing line and take a seat on the ready bench, keeping your muzzle pointed in the air! Man, I have the worst memory of anyone, but you know what? I could tell you enough about safety from all the repetition I've had drilled into my head that I probably mumble it in my sleep. NO!!! I dont need to take another class on hunters safety, and I can bet most of you dont either! This is starting to sound like a bunch of paranoid shooters needing reinforced with a little hug and a safety class just to make them feel good about handling a gun before stepping up to the firing line for the first shot on prequal day. Have you learned safety? Yes? Good, you're done, implement it and dont ever forget it! How could you forget it? You have to be a complete moron to not know any of the 5 rules of safe weapons handling I listed above, #5 & 6 just thrown in for the hunters. With those first 4 rules obeyed, you will never have to worry about hurting anything other than an intended target while hunting, done deal. Safety class completed, heres your certificate.
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
I'd love to make it out to hunt with you sometime, idsman75 has really good things to say about you. Just so you all know, I have taken my Hunter's Safety Course, was fooling around with the card in my wallet earlier today at work. I completed my course November 10 1979. I would never be without the card because I take my hunting that seriously, and would be really ticked to know I couldnt get a license without it, and am glad I have the card because I plan on hunting the whole country when I retire. I am not required to have the card anywhere other than Colorado, as far as I know. Thing is, I remember a little of what they taught, not much, but a little, and so far as I am concerned, I've learned more from straight up common sense and the manual that came from my Daisy Red Ryder BB gun when I was a kid. The first thing I did was read all the manual, and in it it taught me the rules of safe gun handling. Yes, the BB gun manual taught me that! All the rest of the stuff you learn is like extra credit. If you simply use the 4 safety rules that my book had in it, which are really close to what the Corps teaches, you dont need to worry about a thing. We actually got taught CPR in our hunters safety class. Whats that got to do with gun safety? Is it good to know? Sure it is, but is it needed to handle a gun safely? NO. This is what I'm so earnestly defending: the ability of an intelligent person to go out, buy a gun, take it home, read the manual as to how to operate it, and with the 4 rules I listed previously, never have a problem at all as far as gun safety is concerned. Its the Gods honest truth. No one need someone standing in front of them for 10 hours preaching gun safety, or anything unrelated to guns if you are going to call it gun safety. If it took the Corps that long to teach safe weapons handling techniques, the tax payers would all be speaking German, Japanese, or Russian right now. The Army teaches the same way we do. No 10 hour class is required to learn safety. Give me 20 minutes with one person and they will know everything they NEED to know about handling the gun they have safely.
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
In every profession, practice on basics are essential to keep the edge on what is required when executing what has been learned.
Hunters need to be reminded what are the basic safety practices when handling loaded weapons.
Since most hunters hunt seasonally it stands to reason some or all would benefit from practicin some gun safe handling course.
Since handling potentially deadly weapons around other individuals during hunting season, the safety of all concerned should be of the utmost importance.
Never mind about the inconvenience a safety course causes individuals, reminding safe handling and use of weapons is a sound and responsible way for hunters to insure and protect fellow hunters safety in the field.
"The great object is that every man.... everyone who is able may have a gun." Patrick Henry
Harleeman1030@aol.com
Be quiet honey i know what i am doing ...
!!!!!KaBOOM!!!!!
If I knew then, what I know now.
rugster, I can't speak for the course as offered elsewhere, but ours was 20+ hours. When they walked out of there, they had a good basic introduction to firearms, ethics and safety (both in the woods & firearms in particular). And we had folks who were long-time hunters come in with their wives / kids say they learned from the experience.
Ryan - the course is *Hunter* Safety or *Hunter* Education. As volunteers, the instructors don't have quite the same image - nor audience - as a USMC instructor, so it does take a little longer to ensure the basic safety rules have been imparted, but the bulk of the course is on other matters. And I think that is proper. Many times I was dealing with people whose idea of wilderness was the picnic area at the city zoo. We needed to teach them basic compass & map skills, basic first aid, so many things to help them enjoy the activity and not endanger themselves or others. I'm sure that virtually everyone posting here already knows more than was covered in the course, but I remain convinced of its worth. If, as salzo suggested, there were a uniform exam nationally which would allow an individual to be exempted, I wouldn't have a problem with that. The idea is to make the activity safer, not gum up the works for sportsmen.
Had to take a BOWHUNTER safety course, due to the fact that I wanted to bowhunt in a state which required a bowhunter safety course. With the amount of information that was taught, the class could have been taught in an hour. The course was 15 hours long, and a complete waste of time FOR ME. At the end of the course, we had to take a test. I could have passed the exam without taking the course, and in my opinion, if you can pass the test, you should not have to take the course.
Just because I pass the exam, that does not make me a "safe" hunter-but on the same token, just because I take the course, that does not make me a safe hunter.If a state feels the necessity of a required course or exam, than so be it. But neither is going to be a guarantee that the person is safe.
Where I hunt, whenever someone wants to join us hunting, we normally GRILL them, making sure they are safe hunters. Newbies to hunting are told that they cant shoot at anything farther than ten yards,they have to be with one of the veterans there first few days out, aND ARE GRILLED WITH OUR OWN LITTLE SAFETY COURSE(IN WHich we go over the same things Rob mentions). Last hunting season, we had someone join us who took a safety course a few months prior to the season. We were a bit lax with him, because of time constraints, and we foolishly relied on the fact that he took a course.
Among other things, he had an accidental discharge(because it was my gun, I went over how to shoot it with him, safety engagement, etc), he jumped out of a tree stand with a loaded shotgun, that was not in the safety position, and he bursted a barrel cause it was plugged with mud(he was using my shotgun, and I must have toild him ten times to make sure he kept the muzzle up off the ground. I noticed that he always walked with the muzzle about two inches off the ground-everytime I saw him do this, I grilled him about keeping the muzzle up).
Unfortunately, this fellow is still planning on hunting-but not with us. Notwithstanding his state mandated hunting course, his "safet course" that he took with us, he is still an unsafe hunter. I dont care if this guy takes a 100 hour course, I doubt he will ever be reliable in the woods with a gun in his hand(or anywhere else, for that matter).
The point is, some people are not going to be safe, though most will be fine, because when you get right down to it, most gun safety issues are common sense-and after being told how to handle a gun, they wont forget it. I just assume that ALL the people do not have to be reduced to doing things because the lowest common denominator is too stupid to understand basic firearm and hunting safety. Those who are in the position of mandating a safety program should realize this, and should come up with something that is the least obtrusive to the would be hunter. Give them a test, and if they pass leave them alone.
If a course is necessary, I think the best course for would be hunters is a strict gun safety class. If the whole point is being safe, then focus on those issues that are most important. Spend a couple of hours hammering home the basic gun safety procedures Robsguns mentioned, and focus on those things only. In a short amount of time, it is important to hammer home gun safety, cause that is really all that matters. Focusing on too many things will make someone more prone to forget the things that are most important.
In the course that I took, about a half hour was spent on tree stand safety, a half hour was spent on safety with respect to knowing your target, and what is beyond, and the rest of the time was spent on hunting techniques(which for the most part, I thought was BS). Since the purpose of the course was supposedly "SAFETY", I would have focused on those areas that were most dangerous, which would be tree stands, and the same things you would focus on if it was a gun class(knowing your target, knowing the dos and donts of using a bow-which I think are the same rules as shooting a gun), and maybe some first aid. All of the other BS did not matter,and was probably detrimental to the purpose of SAFETY, and was really not appropriate for a mandated course that was SUPPOSED to be about safety.
"The powers delegated by the proposed constitution to the federal governmentare few and defined, and will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace negotiation, and foreign commerce"
-James Madison
Edited by - salzo on 08/21/2002 11:51:32
"The powers delegated by the proposed constitution to the federal governmentare few and defined, and will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace negotiation, and foreign commerce"
-James Madison
I understand the difference between hunters safety and gun safety, and you got the point across pretty good, good enough that I think I've formed another opinion of the subject. That is this. Hunter Safety should not be required before being allowed to hunt. Gun safety should be a requirement for anyone to take prior to hunting. Notice I dont believe it should be made a requirement for anyone to have a safety class prior to purchasing a gun, although it would be highly suggested. I stand by anyones right to own one, regardless of thier knowledge of guns, its every citizens right. As much as my gut tells me it would be good for some new hunters to have a safety class specific to hunting also, I believe it SHOULD be my right to go to the woods and go hunting without one, and there are likely many like me that have never hunted, but are very competent in the woods and in the handling of guns. The test or exam suggested by others that would make you exempt from taking the entire course on hunters safety is a great idea, the same could be done for gun safety.
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
The rest is COMMON SENSE, If you buy or are looking at a firearm do you not find the safety and make sure there are no rounds in the mag or chamber. If not, don't you ask the seller to demonstrate same, on an unfamilier weapon. We know the rest - don't point the gun at anything you are not sure you want to destroy da da da da da.......
This is all aimed at the youth so they are programmed to believe they need to get goverment permission and pass somebody else's test in order to use a firearm in any way. I have heard the yonger guys at work grumbling about this here in WA. I told them to change the law, most of these guys have hunted for a few years and now have to jump through one more hoop, because THE LIBERALS WANT THEM TO. Whats next guys. How about we have to not only account for every kill, but for every bullet fired. "Check your Ammo here for an official count - if you do not comply - you will never ever ever get a license again and it will be a felony, so we get to take your firearms also" I am mad already that I WILL REPORT even if I do not make a kill, or "We will not allow you to hunt again!"
IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY (this includes politicians)
It's mandatory here in Kansas for those born after 1957 to take the test before they can be issued a hunting license.
This is no replacement for the training that a young adult receives from parents and close relatives. However, I feel that a lot is learned during these courses.
I took mine in 1974, at the same place where I now go, to shoot trap and do most of my benchrest shooting. After all these years I still remember the part of the course where they shot a 5 gallon can full of water at 100 yards with a 30-06. This was to help us visualize the effects of a powerful firearm. All these years I've wondered why they used a 30-06 and not a .223.
"Just my opinion."
There are some here on this board that are so into guns and hunting that a course or exam may seem like an insult/nuisance to them. BTW, I am somewhat in that corner too, BUT NO. For me it comes down to the issue of personal safety in the field. I take a "Big Picture" view on this topic. God knows that there are a lot of new, inexperienced hunters out there, and dare I say even stupid hunters. I am not so much worried about myself, Ryan, and others on this board that are experienced in the field with guns, as I am with others that don't know their * from a hole in the ground when it comes to hunter safety.
I ask any of you; if enabling/having novice hunters take a hunter safety course that prevents one person (possibly even you) from being injured or killed due to a careless act, do you think it is worth it?
I learned along time ago it is usually the other fellow I have to watch out for. Now, having said that, the other fellow probably needs to watch out for me.
Boomer
"Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."NRA Life Member
Edited by - Boomerang on 08/21/2002 16:53:09
Its ok, I've gotten kind of tired of this topic, not that its not a great one, but I've already decided how I feel on this topic, and expressed it as best as I can, so its time to shut my mouth and let others express themselves too.
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
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