check this out.

daddo

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1768573242
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=trlampkin&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25
Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!


Edited by - RugerNiner on 09/18/2002 22:10:52

daddo

Heard it today on Glenn Beck.
To get a better understanding of how much money our Govt. is printing & spending on all the bail outs, consider this.
If you started right now of continuous counting out loud to 1 Million, it would take you 32 days.
If you counted to 1 Billion, it would take your 32 years.
If you counted to 1 Trillion, it would take you 32,000 years.

daddo

Check out this website and tell me what you think.


http://www.petakillsanimals.com/index.cfm

Penn & Teller cowpies had an episode about this topic on the show.









" Those who give up a little freedom for temporary security, deserve neither freedom nor security "
- Benjamin Franklin

daddo

This web-site is for all you alcohol types. I was just curious and went to search and typed in a curse word and was suprised at what some people call thier drinks submitted to the website. Such as the 'Purple elastic motherF#$%er'.

http://www.webtender.com/









" Those who give up a little freedom for temporary security, deserve neither freedom nor security "
- Benjamin Franklin

daddo

cut and paste from
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/02/28/MN40941.DTL

Sacramento -- The U.S. Department of Justice has threatened to criminally prosecute California's top firearms official over the state's continued use of a federal databank to hunt down illegal gun users, The Chronicle has learned.

The threat marks a significant escalation in the war between California law enforcement and U.S. officials over gun control and background checks. State officials said that until John Ashcroft became U.S. attorney general in 2001, California's use of the databank was not questioned.

Federal authorities believe the list of convicted felons, drug dealers, suspected terrorists, spouse beaters, illegal immigrants and others should only be used to help gun dealers determine if someone is allowed to buy a gun, not police investigating other gun-control violations.

Gun-control advocates say it's part of a pattern.

"At a time when Ashcroft is pushing for maximum police powers in almost all areas of our lives, the one exception is guns," said Luis Tolley, Western regional director with the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "They are going in the opposite direction."

Now, in an unprecedented action, the chief of California's firearms division says he was threatened with federal action for a criminal violation if California continues to use the federal database to search for illegal gun users who violated the law in other states.

"We understood it as a potential criminal action," said Randy Rossi, firearms chief for state Attorney General Bill Lockyer, "and our response back to them was we understand what you are saying and we think public safety is paramount and you take whatever step is necessary."

If U.S. authorities deny access to some of the FBI's computers, state officials believe they will be forced to return guns to violent criminals. Thousands of background checks would be prohibited every year, state officials said.


THREAT CAME IN CALL
Lockyer's office said the threat of legal retaliation came from an attorney in the FBI's Criminal Justice Information Services Division during a conference call several weeks ago with Rossi and other California officials.

U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., has requested an explanation from FBI Director Robert Mueller on what she called a restrictive interpretation of the law that overturns a "long-standing history of conducting such checks."

The FBI wrote back acknowledging there were differing opinions and promised a further review by U.S. Department of Justice attorneys. Spokesmen for Ashcroft, who controls the FBI, did not return a call seeking comment.

The central dispute is over California's use of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS. The computer system was installed in 1998 to allow firearms dealers to check, supposedly within 30 seconds, whether someone is prohibited from owning a gun.

The state uses the system to conduct background checks for the gun dealers but also to determine if a confiscated weapon should be returned or if someone has a large number of illegally owned firearms.

California has its own databank of people prohibited from owning guns. But law enforcement also checks NICS to see if a suspect has legal problems in other states. Lockyer's office checks the NICS nationwide system about 5,000 times a year on behalf of police, sheriffs and their own investigators.


DATA FROM OTHER STATES
A suspect may be clear in California but convicted of offenses in another state or federal court, but law enforcement would not find that out in many cases, gun-control advocates and state officials fear.

"There needs to be one central depository of felonies, of people who are prohibited, the mentally disturbed and the like," said Tolley with the Brady Campaign.

California officials believe Ashcroft and the FBI are intent on scuttling a new state law that allows Lockyer to investigate people who may illegally have large stores of guns that are being undetected.

The so-called armed and prohibited law targets people recently rejected for gun ownership during a background check because they have a criminal record or arrest.

Rather than stopping there, Lockyer's office is using a newly created state database and three separate federal databases to look for past gun purchases in other states -- and then going after those guns.


OFF-LIMITS TO STATE
Ashcroft's office has told Lockyer that all three federal databases -- NICS,

the National Crime Information Center and the Interstate Identification Index -- are off-limits to his agents if they are using them for the armed and prohibited program, state officials said.

For regular criminal background checks outside of the armed and prohibited program, federal authorities are allowing California access to two of the databases. But they want to deny Lockyer's office access to NICS, unless the state is making a background check for a gun dealer or pawn shop.

State authorities say they like using the more convenient NICS system because it contains all the information from the two other criminal databases under federal control, as well as unique information that other databanks do not track.

The NICS-only information includes the names of illegal immigrants, possible terrorists, people classified as mental defectives or who have renounced their citizenship, people dishonorably discharged from the military, and convicted drug addicts or dealers.


PUSHING POLITICAL POINT
Gun-rights supporters believe Lockyer, a Democrat who plans to run for California governor in 2006, is pushing the issue to make a political point and highlight the differences between the Bush administration and his own record on gun control.

The National Rifle Association said the NICS databank appears clearly designed for use by gun dealers, not for police investigating crimes. The other databanks, they said, can be used to track down criminal records in other states.

"It seems to me that they are trying to make this into a political issue," said Andrew Arulanandam, NRA spokesman.

Georgia officials say they also have been threatened by federal authorities over interpretation of U.S. law concerning criminal background checks. Georgia was denying gun purchases to people arrested for crimes but not charged or convicted.

In a letter last year to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, the FBI warned that the 1993 Brady Handgun Violence Protection Act and Georgia law do not allow "naked arrests" without an indictment or conviction to be used to deny a gun purchase. The FBI said it was "very interested in the status of any corrective action."

Georgia complied with the FBI, and the number of firearms denied to suspected felons dropped significantly. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution estimated that every day an average of 17 or 18 people facing felony charges now are given permission to buy a gun in Georgia.

"We viewed it as a threat," John Bankhead, spokesman for the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, said about the FBI's letter. "We had done this for six years without an issue until the new administration came in, and they pulled this on us."

E-mail Robert Salladay at rsalladay@sfchronicle.com.



SGT USMC

The greatest happiness is to see your enemy scattered before you, to see his village in ashes, and to gather to your bed his wives and daughters.-Genghis Khan 1226

daddo

Found a site that has info. on guns and everything else. Has a lot of important info. on barrel breakin ect. http://yarchive.net/home.html

daddo

I was searching the web when I came upon this website.

www.geocities.com/genlpreston/night_vision

I thought it was cool. I feel the same way that guy does.
Let me know what you guy's think.

Veritas vincit "Truth conquers"

daddo

I was sitting at my computer searching the web when I came upon this website.

www.geocities.com/genlpreston/night_vision

I thought it was cool. I feel the same way that guy does.
Let me know what you guy's think.

Veritas vincit "Truth conquers"

daddo

Gotta love the price and the caption above the picture:

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=9541207

Nothing like an honest and fair priced auction.

"Are you gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?"

badboybob

Thanks Daddo, that's a very interesting site.

---

PC=BS

v35

Lotsa good stuff.

JustC

Gale stated that barrel makers have tolerances of how dull to let a reamer get, AND that many barrel makers go past that point. That being said, the breakin period IS valuable if you don't have a barrel from McMillian or other HIGH END manufacturer. So, unless you have a Mcmillian barrel, or hart, shillen, etc, then the out of the box gun DOES benefit from the breakin due to the fact that anyone who has ever worked in a mass production environment knows, the factory will make more money by extending the use of the reamers. That is exactly why two guns from the same factory, made the same day, with the same reamer, will shoot differently. One was made while the reamer fell inside the tolerances, the other was made after it was outside those tolerances. If you buy a mass production gun, break it in, if you buy custom (McMillian etc) then that's why you pay more for his barrel. Not because his name is on it, because he cut it to much tighter tolerances. Just my .02 on production stuff.

Pelican

How in the world do y'all find all this neat stuff?

---

The Almighty Himself Entrusted the Future of All Living Creatures to a Wooden Boat.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -"Audemus jura nostra defendere"

JustC

SaxonPig, I think you fail to see we are actually on the same page here, yes McMillian barrels require very little or no care from the start to shoot well, but the production guns are different. They are cut in mass quantities with reamers that are, and I am sure you would agree, much more dull than a high end barrle maker will allow. You have to depend on the guy running the line to catch the dull reamer and then give enough of a sh*t to stop production and pull the reamer. Gale knows this, that is why his guns go for so much more money, you have already paid for the care and attention his factory puts into the barrels. But, lets say you buy a lower price rifle, like a CZ or even some of the ADL rems etc. These guns are pushed out the door all day long filling contracts and acheiving market share by their pricepoints. Therefore, it stands to reason that they are not inspected as closely as a McMillian barrel and they are probably produced at 10-20 times the rate of the McMillians. This is the reason some PRODUCTION guns need to have that first 5 boxes through them to settle them in to their groove, if you will. It may not be seasoning by the original definition, but, the burs etc need the pressure of those first 100-200rnds to cut them off the rifling and get straight, shiny, bores.Not to mention the machining perfection of the McMillian actions and stocks as well. It is a difference in tolerences that leads to the difference in prices. This is what I call, the argument that led to benchrest competitions. Machining excellence=$$$$$$$$

SXSMAN

Man,I was on trying to get an answser last night,it wouldn't take my response.My question was/is you guys feel it is a waste of time to clean between shots on a stainless barrel?I've read on Armalite and Bushmasters site about cleaning between rounds and the seasoning process.I had thought of shooting my Colt Elite AR 15 tomorrow(OK today) to sight the scope in and break the barrel in.Should have weather in the 50s and my shoulder is good enough now to do it.So I'd just be wasting my time and barrel life?

JustC

yeah, what he said. Besides, if you want to sight in the scope, cleaning between shots will only serve to make sight in time consuming. My first shot after a barrel clean or out of a clean barrel is always a fouling shot anyway.

boeboe

DSA does have info on barrel break-in. Not that I believe it, but I'm not going to dump all my firearms just 'cause I didn't do it...

timberbeast

Just, are you saying that a McMillian barrel has tighter tolerances than a high-production barrel, or are you saying that the tolerances are not held in high-production shops? And are rifle barrels reamed as the final step? I've never met a reamer that could cut hardened steel in a production environment, and I was a machinist for 23 years. This isn't meant to be argumentative, an inquiring mind wants to know. I've finished thousands of ID's, down to .0001 tolerances, and for the polish in a rifle bore, I would think either internal grinding or hard-boring, though I have never made gun barrels. A Mapal reamer may get the desired finish on soft steel, but would still have to be cleaned up after heat-treat to final dimensions, with a great emphasis on concentricity and true position. Do you know what kind of tolerances are used on barrels, down to size, concentricity and surface finish? I would think surface finish would have to be held to 16 microns, and no reamer I've ever seen will do that. Again, I'm not being a smartass, I'm curious.

JustC

My point is this, A mcmillian barrel is tighter and better finished than a production gun. That is a fact. I have owned and shot Mcmillians and I will say this with the utmost confidence, A Mcmillian costs as much as it does due to the fact that it is superior in all aspects of production/metal work. If they were not, then why would you pay 3 times as much for it when you could shoot just as well with any box gun? The finish and tolerances are FAR SUPERIOR, that is why they shoot SOOOOOOO well. And yes, I have watched the production of rifles and seen the amount of guns boxed up in one day. This doesn't happen at Mcmillian. All reasons for the accuracy of Mcmillians is directly due to the gunsmiths and workers who are proud of producing these fine rifles. I am speaking of the tactical stuff, I don't really like the sporter weight guns and have no experience with them. I mean the ones that weigh 12+ lbs. This is the reason why when you buy a barrel from shillen, hart, etc, and get it reamed, and installed to mate up to your reciver just right, and bedded, you have as much in it as some of the brand new rifles on the market. The gunsmith makes the rifle or not. McMillian personifies this point. And, no, I can't give terminology or exact answers about metal work or reamers, but I can say that I have a gunsmith who is outstanding in his field. He has taught me things I never knew existed, and shown me that a rifle is a product of the builder. Perfection costs $$$$, but, when you lay her down in that bag, it all comes together.But to try to answer your question as best I can TIMBER, I would have to say that the sharpness of the rifling lands and perfect mirror finishes are what makes the barrels so sweet. I also beleive that tolerances are held in factories, but the tolerances are greater than Gail will allow. I am not a gunsmith, but have learned that tolerances can't be taken for granted. My gunsmith may only cut 5 barrles from one reamer. That is how particular he is. I hope this answer is non-argumentative as well, I did the best I could from my understanding without trying to infer that I am a metal expert. This is just what I have come to understand from my exposure to a gunsmith.

timberbeast

Thanks, justC, I'm just curious as to the tolerances and machining methods, and of course the top-notch stuff will be held to a closer tolerance, I have no doubt of that. Just wondering, as many of my fellow machinists and myself were chatting once about how we could build a handgun quite quickly, but were unsure as to the machining methods for a long barrel. It seems quite obvious (or maybe not), that a broach would be used to cut the rifling, but the finished bore is still elusive....I may have to take a tour or do a search on the net! Thanks for your answers!