Mig welders (Flux core -vs- shielding gas)

jltrent

Anybody with any experience with Mig welders? Does the flux core wire mig welders work as good as the shielding gas solid core mig welders? I am thinking about buying one and was just wondering if the gas kit was worth the extra cost?

axlerfan

i have a small wire feed welding rig. i prefer the gas over the flux core wire. either makes good welds, but seems like the gas gives me neater results. then again, i may just be a lousy welder (trust me i am)

sandman2234

No expert, but I think the gas kit would allow you the benefit of using wire without the worry of it being old or having gotten wet. Rusty wire won't run, just pops, but wet flux is useless. All that from a guy that welded 4 bolts on a gate with a mig, and that's it. I own a mig setup, but have never hooked it up. Prefer the TIG machine that I have and it will weld up to 5/8 plate on single pass. Slower than a MIG, but it sure makes a pretty weld.
However, I think you can use core wire on a gas setup, just not the reverse, and if you can get the right power settings, you might be able to run aluminum on a gas setup.
Hope somebody corrects me if I am wrong. It's been a while since I was in the field with welding technology.

Have Gun, will travel

Mercury

Flux core is garbage in my opinion. I was a welder/fabricator for a few years, and I hate flux core. Gas is more expensive if you use argon, but 100x better than CO2 or whatever the cheaper stuff is. (I don't remember, as I didn't use it but once!)

Gas will give you a cleaner weld, too. If you need something portable, lugging around a HUGE tank sucks, so buy a small one for that.

Merc

NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!

****************************************

"Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt

Rembrandt

Merc is correct, flux core is lacking in performance...go with a Stargon mix or straight Argon for the best.

pops401

Keep the flux for when you're outside in a good wind. Argon any other time.

Gun Control: It's not about guns, It's about control

barto

the mig will NOT work in any kind of wind.
my machine runs both & they each definately have
their good & bad points.
a combination of the two will REALLY up productivity.
argon and helium are really spendy.
i personally prefer 25% argon/75% co2 for most welding.
barto

the hard stuff we do right away - the impossible takes a little longer

cowdoc

i second what pops said ....gas doesnt work good if you have to weld outside in the wind, but if you are going to use it inside a shop gas is the only way to go.
i prefer gas over flux core wire anyday,flux core wire splaters like if you are welding with a 6011 rod "a stick welding rod"
doc

I dont give my guns without somebody getting hurt!

FUBAR

Buy the gas kit.Then depending on what your going to be welding, decide between straight C02 or a mixture or straight argon. If your just going to be welding repairs around the house..Lawnmowers,cars..etc I would use 100% Co2, If I were going to be welding finer things I would use a mixture... If I were going to weld Gun receivers back together I would use 100% argon. It all depends on how you want the weld to finish out and how much spatter during welding you want. The current settings and wire speed setting will have more of an impact to your welding than the gas will,but I definately would use gas.

Guns! Guns! Guns!

sig-man

Barto, don't you mean 75% argon and 25% carbon dioxide? Straight argon causes an unstable weld pool and the carbon dioxide stabilizes the molten weld pool,gas works better,but neither works well when you add a breeze, you can get even a nicer weld if you use a gas with the flux core wire, but if you are just a hobby welder I would suggest at least a 200 amp machine, sometimes those 150's don't cut the mustard maxed out , the duty cycle drops down to around 40% which means you can only use it 4 minutes out of 10. Good luck and if you have any specific questions just let me know, I have been mig or GMAW and tig or GTAW welding for over 20 years...

R.I.P 45, 28, 3

Alpine

75% Argon 25% either Helium, Co2. The cheapest all round gas is Co2. There is no sense spending the extra money on mixes unless you are welding for a specific welding specification, which you are not. You can weld in some wind by shielding the gas cloud with your body. Flux core, unless you do a lot of it, will not give you the results you can easily obtain with MIG (gas). Of the three: Mig, Tig, and stick, Mig is the easiest. You can adjust voltage / wire feed, till it sounds like tearing paper. Then you are there. Have fun!
I have some experince with welding, been certified since 1969.


Edited by - Alpine on 05/19/2002 11:23:25

sandman2234

Straight Argon must be ok for welding, cause that is almost the only thing I use. If I am going to try for a really pretty weld, I use straight helium. You have to increase the flow tremendously.HOWEVER, I HAVEN'T HAD TO PAY FOR GAS, EVER. Worked out a deal with a local welding supply store, and as a benefit, I get free gas. Not sure if it will still be in effect, cause after 14 years of burning their gas, the company sold the store. To add to that, I haven't done any work for them in ten years, they just never took me off the "free list". Tried some of the "mixes", just for a change, but they didn't work better or worse, so I went back to argon so I could weld aluminum without changing bottles. Sandman2234

Have Gun, will travel

Alpine

In Tig welding you might find that Argon is easier to start an arc, but Helium gives you hotter puddle. But if your welding machine can give you a high frequency start arc you will not notice any differance. A 75% Argon 25% Helium is the best of both worlds. In steel, stainless steel, titanium, it just doest'n matter, but in aluminum with the material pulling away the heat quickly it just works better.

SUBMARINER

depends on what it is used for.light home use go with the flux core,its just easier.if you are going to try heavy duty stuff get the gas.i got a small mig with flux core wire it works good,i made some steel targets with it and they are holding up great

SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,NE'ER DO WELL, INSTIGATOR,AND RUSTY WALLACE FAN

BlueTic

Depends on your budget - and your needs. The best as stated so far is Gas (I like the 75/25 mix). But for most of the stuff I do at home - Stick is good. I only like the versatility in case some stainless comes my way - but thats for my Tig rig (I'm not good at it yet - thats why I got the setup). My only suggestion is - DO NOT GO CHEAP - SPECIALS are not special when it comes to welding.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY (this includes politicians)

sandman2234

Do what I did, move in across the street from a welding supply worker. A 15 year friendship, and several welding machines at prices you guys would think I am lying about. (My 3 month old Bobcat was the most expensive, at 1396.00, My watercooled Tig machine that will weld 5/8 aluminum plate in a single pass, was $238.00) My AC/DC buzzbox, like new, was free.Somebody plugged it into the wrong voltage and it blew the internal fuse. Fuse was less than a dollar. I think it was never even used. Came with 50 feet of leads on each side.

Have Gun, will travel

jltrent

Thanks for all the informaton.

BlueTic

Likestoshoot - maybe he is feeding 1/8 very very fast. I've seen the guys at work do it twisting up about 3 rods together. Dang Pipers get all the fun. Us structural guys just do the HOGG welding....

IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY (this includes politicians)

sandman2234

Actually I just use migwire instead of three foot pieces of filler rod. Got ahold of several rolls of it, 5/32 in size. 1/8 green tungsten will work, but I drilled a collet and turned down a couple pieces of tungsten to .187. (turned them on an O.D. Grinder).
Nothing special, Just a Miller 330, water and gas cooled torch, foot pedal, and a smith flowmeter for $238.00 plus a trip down to Gainesville, Fl. (It was a trade in from the University of Fla's welding school.Something had gone wrong with it, and it was never used, so after a few years, they traded it in. I gave the trade in price, plus 10 percent, plus the repair parts cost of 17 dollars. Guy thru the labor in for nothing, cause I had to wait 15 minutes for him to put the part in. Foot pedal didn't even have the paint worn off)

Have Gun, will travel

FUBAR

This thread just went way over my head! We started out talking about the Pro's and Con's of Flux wire vs. gas. I agree with the blocking of wind from the delivery of gas and believe in different applications Flux wire is okay. But where the aluminum thread came from lost me. I have been involved in resistance,MIG and Laser welding (YAG) for a number of years and am feeling lost now.

Guns! Guns! Guns!

sig-man

Instead of using the green pure tungsten you ought to try the zirconium brown, this stuff is amazing for use with squarewave tig aluminum work, 3/32 welds like 1/8 pure and the 1/8 welds like 5/32,you crank up the AC balance to the max and rock and roll, the ball does not deform like pure and it is the most contamination proof tungsten I have ever used,I know this thread is about steel mig wire , but I figured since we are straying from the topic, what the heck...

R.I.P 45, 28, 3

FUBAR

Sig-man, If you know anything about robotic welding applications, there might be a job opening available.

Guns! Guns! Guns!

Alpine

As long as we are straying....... 2% thoriated (spelling) is what I have been using.

sig-man

* I did the robotic welding deal at a place called Bauer compressors, it was probably the worst job I ever had, I like the machine shop atmosphere and my bench and my clean aluminum, stainless and titanium, even when I have to weld steel it is clean and has weld prep machined into it as per my specifications, I waited 15 years to find a gravy job like this and I aint leavin it, I've done military contractor's thing with the Navy's LCACS and Coast Guards alum 47' motor lifeboat that can flip upside-down and right itself in 2 seconds, and the politics suck, I still do work for Raytheon, and Lockeed Martin, and a bunch of shipyards around Norfolk, but I like the shop to much to leave. I do build custom yachts on the weekends out of aluminum, but that's my gun money.

R.I.P 45, 28, 3

sig-man

Alpine, the 2% is great for stainless and DC welding, but I find that during AC the electrode distorts and gets little stalagtites all over the end, where as the pure and ziconium stay in a nice ball for aluminum work, it's just the zirconium keeps it's shape and doesn't spit like pure does. I have used 2% for AC welding but only with a squarewave machine with ac balance control that I can set on about 6 or 7, but under high amperage it still distorts. sorry for straying again guys...

R.I.P 45, 28, 3