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Digital Camera Help

5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited September 2002 in General Discussion
I'm looking to buy a digital camera and I'm leaning towards a Sony, but I'm up for suggestions and would like to stay under 250.00 if possible. I'll keep shooting most with a film camera but want to be able to pack something small to shoot photos from the field. So any suggestions and reasons why would be appreciated. I hope you folks can point me in the right direction. Thanks.

If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website

Comments

  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Have to buy one. Absolutely no idea of which one to buy, or worse what is needed to consider before buying one.Help greatly appreciated.
    Happy Bullet Holes!
  • TazmuttTazmutt Member Posts: 862 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    5db - I have a Fuji Finepix 1400 (no longer make this model) and am very happy with the Fuji. Consumer Guide highly recommended Fuji. They use SmartMedia rather than CompactFlash. Both similar in price. If you are looking for zoom capabilities, go more for OPTICAL than DIGITAL zoom. ie: 6x zoom, 3x optical/2x digital is better than 2x optical/3x digital. Digital zoom is best done on computer editing software.

    New cameras are 2+ megapixel, mine is 1.3 megapixel and the picture quality is fabulous. The more pixels, the more memory used. Dont pay extra for unnecessary meg-pixs ...

    Hope this hepps ...
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a Sony DSC-85 and am really happy with it. I bought the 128 meg memory stick (at a huge discount, searched internet), and the amount of pictures it holds is scary. The DSC-85 is the 4.1 mp and that is more pixels than you really need. I also takes 15 secoud movies and is pretty quick about storing them.
    All my picture taking previous to this was with Nikons, so this was a whole lot to learn.
    Screen Savers did a test on what you are looking for, go to their website and look at the "Fresh Gear" section.

    "If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is the last Camera I bought. Have they changed much since then?

    Kodak No.2 Brownie Camera circa 1903



    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!


    Edited by - RugerNiner on 09/13/2002 00:23:38
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
  • TazmuttTazmutt Member Posts: 862 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    RugerNiner ... Thats not a camera, thats a dawg house
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Dang that looks like a .0000001 mp digital delux model.
    But just where do you put the batteries in that?

    "If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've used the Sony Mavicas and they're very nice, and surprisingly easy to understand. The Canons are probably just as good in terms of overall quality. You also might consider a videocam with still capability if you don't need tons of still picture resolution. If you chose a Sony videocam you would always have the added capability of the infrared night shooting, something which some of the competing videocams do not have. You will probably find that you will transfer your pictures to your computer via a USB cable or IEEE cable, so the media the camera stores on does not have to be loadable into your PC.

    I'm currently using a Panasonic DV videocam myself (uses DV tapes) for my internet stills as well as my movie needs, with 680k resolution, and that's enough for internet stills and plenty for sharp movies.

    But if you want a real still camera with hi-res, you'll need more than 680 -- a minimum of about 1.3 Megapixels, and you'll probably want to go to at least 2 for really good still pictures, and 3.3 to 4 if you are needing professional application for advertising -- however the high resolution makes VERY big picture files and you'll need a lot of camera memory for resolutions above 1 or 2 Megapixels. I've heard of guys who use the 3.3 - 4 megapixel cameras shooting their pictures directly by cable to a laptop's hard drive for storage.

    I hope this is clear enough to help some.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Gordian Blade, Thanks, you make a good point about Beta/VHS. Tazmutt, Thanks, Good to know about the optical/digital zoom, that hepps! Alpine, I too shoot a Nikon film camera but want something quiet to use in the field. I tried a "Screen saver" search, got lots of options but none that had a "Fresh Gear", I'll go try looking under fresh gear and see if that narrows the field. offeror, Thanks, We have a 8mm video camera while it seems primitive today, it works. So I'll be looking for the camera option with 2+ Megapixals. This digital stuff is good stuff.

    RugerNiner, you don't need another one of those do ya? I have a sample of the "Eastman Kodak - No. 2 Cartridge Hawk-eye model C". If you don't mind telling, What did you shoot that picture with?

    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Heck, if you're already shooting Nikon you're better off than I thought in terms of knowledge and the pic quality you're used to seeing. In that case, I would go to at least 3.3 megapixels, so that you don't outgrow your new camera. The photogs at ad agencies around here went directly from film to 3.3. There is one professional firm using "digital backs" on optical cameras, but those things cost a royal mint. I'd look for a deal on a camera with 3-4 megapixels. Funny you should mention noise, because some of these cameras have audio noises that sound like a shutter to make you "feel better." Make sure you can turn those sounds off on the camera you buy if you need quiet (!)

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    offeror, so now I gotta ask the salesman if the camera makes any sounds when a image is made? If so what shutter speed????

    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    5db --
    You should ask to try out a sample camera with the batteries in it. That should be no problem, as you'll want to try out the little LCD display, the macro feature, and so on anyway. Also you can check the optical zoom (a very good point). If it makes a shutter-like noise too loud for your taste, you may have to have him check the manual to find out if the sounds can be turned off -- sometimes they can. If it is not possible, you may have to select a different brand.

    It's not really that hard, once you get to the counter, if you are somewhat knowledgable about cameras. I always strike up a conversation with a salesman before I let him know I'm looking to buy, asking questions to determine if he's one of their experts or just a generalist in sales. Usually I can find at least one guy whose eyes light up when he starts talking about the cameras and the facts just pour out. Then I know I've got the right salesman, and I start talking turkey. I just have to buy from an expert, personally. Sonys are great cameras, but I have a Canon I love and a Panasonic that is very good as well. I would put them at the top of my list. And again, plan to transfer files to your PC by cable, not disk media. If you're needing photo printing services like those at the Walgreen's film counter, ask your salesman how it's done, because I don't do that.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Maybe you should look at the Sony DSC 75 (3+ mp) or the 85 (4.1 mp). You can turn off the shutter sounds (silly stuff), and use it manually or automatic. Great camera! And for film I used a Nikon F with a sportsfinder, a FTN with motor drive, and a Nikonos for the u/water stuff.

    "If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • GatofeoGatofeo Member Posts: 230 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am a U.S. Army photographer and writer (civilian).
    I use a Kodak 760 digital camera at work every day. This camera costs $8,000 for the body alone!
    I work with digital cameras every single day.
    My own personal digital camera is an Olympus 2020Z. It's small (about the size of a point-and-shoot) and looks unworthy of theft, yet it comes with a remarkable array of capabilities.
    Two years ago, I paid $625 for this camera when the list price was $999. Recently, I saw it listed on the net, new in the box, for $250. I coulda cried.
    There is a saying among digital photographers, "If you can buy it. It's obsolete."
    Yea, verily!
    Salesmen try to whip the customer into buying a digital camera, at a much higher price, by citing the number of megapixels it contains.
    My Olympus 2020 has about 1.9 megapixels. To many digital camera owners, this is far too low for good resolution.
    Poppycock!
    My little Olympus 2020 will produce exceptional 8X10 prints, provided it is set on the highest resolution.
    I have used the Sony Mavica and don't like it. It's okay for 4X5 or 4X6 shots, and marginal for 5X7 shots but resolution goes all to Hell with 8X10 prints. Of course, the Mavica I used was three years ago and perhaps they've increased the pixel count since then. I don't know.
    All I know is that on my wall is a photo taken with a Sony Mavica that is 5X7 inches. It would be a better photo at 8X10 but the lack of resolution prevents this.
    If all you want to do with a digital camera is produce 4X5 or 4X6 prints, and an occasional 5X7 print, you will be well-served with a Sony Mavica.
    But I guarantee you, someday you'll take a photo you want as 8X10 or larger and you won't be able to do print it out as such.
    Tazmutt is right. Optical zoom is to be preferred over digital zoom whenever possible.
    I don't carry more than 8 or 16 MB cards in my Olympus 2020. I cringe to think of putting all my eggs in one basket with a 64 or 128 MB card.
    If you drop that card in the mud, or get it too close to a magnet, you may lose all or most of what's on it.
    That's why I like to use 8 or 16 MB cards and change them out. At the maximum 1600 X 1200 resolution I get about 18 shots on a 16 MB card. That may not seem like a lot, but you have to remember that digital cameras are not like film and you can easily discard the photos you don't like or those which don't come out for some reason (glare on the lens, subject in shadows, etc.).
    It's also important to consider how you will use your digital camera.
    If you want to produce prints from it, an 8.5 X 11 sheet of photographic paper will run you about $1. Now, you can get TWO 4X5 prints on that single sheet.
    If you print out --- for the sake of argument --- 24 prints that will cost you about $12 (plus whatever the cost of the ink in the printer).
    The local Wally World or whomever will print your 24-exposure roll of 35MM FILM for about $7. And you don't have to deal with it.
    I still shoot 35mm a lot, because the resolution of film is still better than digital.
    The trouble lies in the pixels, which are the tiny "sensors" that register red, green and blue that make up the colors in a digital photo. No one has yet been able to make a pixel as small as the silver halide crystal that makes up a regular film negative.
    They've gotten close, but until they do film will still have better resolution.
    And another thing: when you get your prints from the store, you get your negatives too. Negatives are a good backup if you lose your prints or they get damaged.
    Similarly, you should always save your raw camera images to a CD or a Zip disk. Very important photos, such as family reunions and weddings, should be printed out as well (in case the disk or CD goes bad). Don't store critical digital images in your computer, because if your computer dies or some thief steals it, you likely won't be able to get them back.
    As to e-mail, 4X5 prints and Power Point presentations ... scale your image down to about 4X5 inch at 110 dots per inch. The human eye can't discern the difference between about 100 dpi and 300 dpi at this size so any extra dots are wasted.
    More than wasted, they're an aggravation to work with. Downloading a large image at 300 dpi may take minutes or even hours, depending on the format.
    Most computer screens have 72 to 96 dots per inch resolution, so any more dots are wasted in email. I specify 110 in 4X5 images, however, in case the recipient wants to print it out. A 72 dpi, 4X5 photo will be heavily pixelated from the printer and look out of focus. The 110 dpi will not.
    I use the jpg format almost exclusively in my work. The customer gets one file of 4X5 images at 110 dpi and another file, with identical images, of 8X10 at 300 dpi. Both files are done in jpg. Tiff takes too long to download or bring up.
    However, I archive raw images in TIFF, so I have a baseline from which to convert. Also, if I (miraculously) take an exceptional photo, I can print it at poster size without loss of resolution.
    A 4X5 jpg image at 110 dpi will take 50 to 120 KB of space.
    An 8X10 jpg at 300 dpi will take up 700 to 1,000 KB of space.
    An 8X10 TIFF at 300 dpi will take up about 7,000 KB of space!
    In short, you won't be able to get many 8X10 TIFF files in your computer before you've filled its capacity.
    That's why it's best to use jpg when possible.

    In summation:
    A. If all you wish to produce are prints of 8X10 at the most, but mostly pocket-sized prints, a camera with about 2.0 megapixels will serve you fine.
    B. Carry multiple cards, so if a card craps out you have SOMETHING of the subjet. I'd HATE to put all my vacation images on one card, and then have that card get damaged or crap out. Also, you can tailor cards to the subject: "Us at the beach" .."At the mountains" .. "Next door neighbor's 25-year-old wife sunbathing au naturel" ... heh.
    C. Send email images in jpg at 4X5 inches at 110 dpi.
    D. Save raw photos as jpg at 300 dpi. These are your "archive" photos from which other photos may be reproduced. However, the more you change things in the jpg format the more resolution you lose. So it's best to make a copy of that raw image and then work on that. Never change anything in your raw image (size, resolution, lighting levels, etc.).
    E. Remember that digital cameras will register action at much slower speeds than film. The result is usually blurred action in the photo. Bring your 35mm if you intend to get Little Billy swinging his bat at Little League playoffs.
    F. The LCD screen will only show you how your photo is composed, and to a degree how well it is exposed (too light or too dark, for example). It's nearly impossible to tell how well your photo is FOCUSED on an LCD screen, unless it's very badly out of focus.
    For this reason, I tend to discard only those photos whose subject, composition or lighting are clearly not what I want. The only way to check for focus is to view the card on the large screen of your computer.
    G. Do a lot of comparison shopping. Buy a few photography magazines. In the back of these magazines are businesses with huge ads that sell from their stock. Decide what you want before you call, then call to find out the price.
    Also, search the net for the camera you've decided upon, to find a good price and to determine what users say about it (my Minolta 2020 was very highly rated by both the magazines and the people who used it, which finalized my decision).
    H. When buying through the net or a big camera house, ask if the camera has a U.S. Warranty. Many camera manufacturers make products for the international market, without a U.S. warranty. These models are identical, but typically cheaper. They may also be made with parts not as good as those made for the U.S. market. Buy a camera with a U.S. warranty, regardless of what the salesman tells you about it "being just as good."
    I. Know a little bit about your camera before you talk to a salesman. Read up on digital photography. It may sound overwhelming but if you can learn the gist of it, you'll be surprised at how simple it truly is.
    No chemicals to mix, no darkroom, no englarger ... digital photography is one of today's great modern conveniences.
    J. One last thing ... carry your camera with you wherever you go. In the car on the way to the store or whatever. Some years ago, Time magazine did a big article on crime in America. In that issue was a series of photos of a robber, seen through the window of a 7-11, sticking a gun in the clerk's face and the clerk handing over the cash.
    Time paid $10,000 for those series of photos, as I recall. Where did they come from? NOT a professional photographer or even a police surveillance tape. They came from a guy with a regular 35mm camera, who drove by the 7-11 one evening and saw the robbery in progress. He took a chilling series of photos that not only caught the crook, but got him a nice chunk of change.
    I never leave home without my digital or my 35mm.
    One of these days, Elvis will fly by in a UFO .. and Gatofeo will be there to catch his hunka-hunka smile!


    "A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44!"
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Like I said, the ad agency photographers around here who are risking shooting digital at all are using 3.3 megapixels and up. They know their pictures may have to sustain a full-page full-color magazine ad, which can be 8x10 or even larger. But these files take up a LOT of media space too. The advantage of digital is you can reduce the photo to the dimensions and file size ideal for the application you need. But if you need hi-res, big sharp pictures, you will want to shoot hi-res and save your original full sized shots, and those files will remain large, and probably stored on CDs or your hard drive or both. If you are used to output from a Nikon, you probably want to do as the ad agency photogs are doing. Shoot some film, and some digital. And go for the hi-res end of digital if you need big sharp originals.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Gatofeo, Thank you for your time. That's a lot of information to digest so I'll print it out. I'm a bit confused though, is your personal camera a Olympus or Minolta?

    Alpine, Do you have a address for that site where I'll find "Fresh Gear"? I have had no luck. Thanks

    offeror, a salesman told me you just give the photo processor the card and they can make prints.

    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
  • agloreaglore Member Posts: 6,012
    edited November -1
    Just traded for an Olympus C4000 Zoom. Anybody have experience with this camera. Thanks in advance.

    AlleninAlaska

    http://www.outdoor-o-rama.com

    He who dares not offend cannot be honest.
    -- Thomas Paine
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I looked for it and it appears that it is already to old to be on their site. However here is a link to their stuff, and I'm sure they will do another real soon:http://www.techtv.com/freshgear/index.html/

    "If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks to one and all for the suggestions. I bought a Fujifilm FinePix 2600 Zoom. 3x optical zoom with 2.0 megapixels. It's small camera that fits in my palm and the controls seem simple enough. I'll get a little time with it in the next 14 and see what I think.

    Here's the way my mind works though, Why put the battery compartment on a camera so that it opens on the bottom of the camera? If accidentally opened, good ol' gravity will take those batteries to the ground! Which might be about 20' away! I'm going to slide a bit of neoprene between them to tighten things up....



    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
  • TazmuttTazmutt Member Posts: 862 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    5db - I hope your are as pleased with the Fuji as I am with mine. With 2mp, you get some great pics and the 3x optical zoom is, I believe, equivelent to about a 110MM zoom. Have fun picturing

    "A Fear of Weapons is a sign of Retarded Sexual
    and Emotional Maturity" Sigmund Freud
    "MOLON LABE !"
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