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Ignorant FFL's
familyguy
Member Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
Another post from an FFL that apparently didn't know their business sparked this rant. DISCLAIMER - not meant as a slam to any FFL's or pawnbroker's out there, just an account of a particular experience.
Had an auction for a shotgun go to someone in another state. I shipped it USPS to the address on the FFL provided. The lady buying the gun calls me one morning not long after to say that the dealer won't release the firearm to her since I didn't provide my FFL copy to the dealer.
I get the guys phone number and call. I tell him the reason he didn't get a license is that I don't have one. He freaked.
In my defense, he raised his voice first. What followed, though, was a hollerin match about someone trying to pull an illegal sale vs ignorant pawnbrokers that don't know the law.
He really didn't. Told me it was ILLEGAL to ship guns USPS. Told me he had no way of knowing if my gun was stolen. Told me he could only accept out of state guns from another FFL and that was a FEDERAL requirement. I kept pointing him in the direction of the right sources of info, to no avail. He hysterically threatened to call the ATF and Postal Service about me. Told him "Go for it". Then said he'd take the gun back to the Post Office, dump it on them, and say see what you did (I couldn't help it, I actually laughed at this one). Said he HAD talked to the local ATF office, and what I was doing was wrong. Yeah, right.
After I cooled down, I called back, apologized for getting upset, and calmly explained that I did not want to try and 'put one over' on him. Read to him direct from the ATF website. Read to him directly from the postal regulations. Offered to fax him a copy of my drivers license and again invited him to inquire to the ATF. He said he'd get back to me.
All the while, the frantic buyer is trying to arrange another FFL to do the transfer, but how am I supposed to get the shotgun back? I kept reassuring the buyer, told them I'd been through out of state transfers before, everything would be OK.
Finally, dealer calls back, and to his credit says "you're right, you can do that". Then tries to save face by saying they JUST STARTED ALLOWING THIS, IT'S SOMETHING NEW. What a hoot. Buyer got their shotgun, I actually thanked the pawnbroker for his concern that everything be done legally.
To pour salt in the wound, the buyer never left me feedback. Some people just plain SUCK.
Got a new gun for my ex-wife.....pretty good trade, huh?
Had an auction for a shotgun go to someone in another state. I shipped it USPS to the address on the FFL provided. The lady buying the gun calls me one morning not long after to say that the dealer won't release the firearm to her since I didn't provide my FFL copy to the dealer.
I get the guys phone number and call. I tell him the reason he didn't get a license is that I don't have one. He freaked.
In my defense, he raised his voice first. What followed, though, was a hollerin match about someone trying to pull an illegal sale vs ignorant pawnbrokers that don't know the law.
He really didn't. Told me it was ILLEGAL to ship guns USPS. Told me he had no way of knowing if my gun was stolen. Told me he could only accept out of state guns from another FFL and that was a FEDERAL requirement. I kept pointing him in the direction of the right sources of info, to no avail. He hysterically threatened to call the ATF and Postal Service about me. Told him "Go for it". Then said he'd take the gun back to the Post Office, dump it on them, and say see what you did (I couldn't help it, I actually laughed at this one). Said he HAD talked to the local ATF office, and what I was doing was wrong. Yeah, right.
After I cooled down, I called back, apologized for getting upset, and calmly explained that I did not want to try and 'put one over' on him. Read to him direct from the ATF website. Read to him directly from the postal regulations. Offered to fax him a copy of my drivers license and again invited him to inquire to the ATF. He said he'd get back to me.
All the while, the frantic buyer is trying to arrange another FFL to do the transfer, but how am I supposed to get the shotgun back? I kept reassuring the buyer, told them I'd been through out of state transfers before, everything would be OK.
Finally, dealer calls back, and to his credit says "you're right, you can do that". Then tries to save face by saying they JUST STARTED ALLOWING THIS, IT'S SOMETHING NEW. What a hoot. Buyer got their shotgun, I actually thanked the pawnbroker for his concern that everything be done legally.
To pour salt in the wound, the buyer never left me feedback. Some people just plain SUCK.
Got a new gun for my ex-wife.....pretty good trade, huh?
Comments
That thing has more mish mash than you can handle.
Everyone should have a copy, then we could all be confussed together.
Walte
No offense, but have you ever read the entire FFL "Yellow Book", makes good bathroom reading material!
That thing has more mish mash than you can handle.
Everyone should have a copy, then we could all be confussed together.
Walte
Mine are green and red...I don't have a yellow one...but you are right. After reading up on a particular question, I still have to call the local ATF office to get the answer I need. Even then, the agents never know the answer, so I have to inquire with our "inspector"
Eric
All American Arms Company
Veteran Owned and Operated
The only thing that mucks it up is local ordinances and state laws, none of which applied in this case....I checked; and the FFL was making claims about Federal law.
One call to the ATF to clear it up. That simple.
He was an * and the buyer was ungrateful. Nuff said.
Got a new gun for my ex-wife.....pretty good trade, huh?
JC
Ted Kennedy's breath has killed more people than my car.
I know about the ID thing (have to have SOMETHING for the book). Get that now with the C&R when I ask for copy of the sellers DL (if it's not a dealer, they always provide their FFL #).
Got a new gun for my ex-wife.....pretty good trade, huh?
You dont have the "Yellow Book"! YOur in trouble...
No not really, I think they change the color of the book cover each year, think mine is around the 1995 version.
Fun & games with the FFL.
Walte
ECC Oh Crap!
You dont have the "Yellow Book"! YOur in trouble...
No not really, I think they change the color of the book cover each year, think mine is around the 1995 version.
Fun & games with the FFL.
Walte
[:D]
Eric
All American Arms Company
Veteran Owned and Operated
I was shipping a gun to a FFL for a customer. The FFL required a committment in advance that I send a FFL copy with the gun, and that it be signed in BLUE ink. No other color, just blue. Said it was a Federal regulation.
I said I don't have a blue pen, and I don't. I sign all my FFL copies in red ink. Looks cool.
The dealer went ballistic. Threatened, cursed, you name it. I said I would send him a copy signed in blue ink. So I did. I asked one of the kids for his colored markers. I signed that FFL in blue, green, red, purple, yellow, orange, pink, and lots of colors in between.
When he got it, the dealer went positively nuclear. Threatened to turn me in to the BATF for "falsely signing" the document. I told him to do as he must, but if he caused me a moment's unrest, I would sue him and own his little gun shop.
Morons can get licenses too.
SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
There are no extraordinary men...just extraordinary circumstances with which ordinary men must deal. Admiral Bull Halsey
I have had to educate him several times about the law, but he doesn't have the arrogant, condescending attitude that many dealers have. When I've explained to him the facts about one law or another, he's always said "show me that in the book". He's a decent guy, says "I've got better things to do than go blind trying to read all that fine print. Why should I, anyway, when I've got you fill me in?"
Admiral William "bull" Halsey was born in the city I live in here in NJ.
I believe his quote was:
"There are no extraordinary men, just extraordinary circumstances that ordinary men are forced to deal with."
VERY close to your quote, I hope you don't think me picky, LOL.
njretcop@copmail.com
Charlie
Because i am sick of dealers that Dont know the laws and as a non dealer i am sick of explaining the BATFE regulations So i will eat
a few bucks on a transfer fee Its better than pulling all my hair out[:(!][:p][xx(]
always see both sides of the coin. You don't know what the FFL has been told to do by his local authority. For instance, we all know that black powder firearms are not supposed to be treated like modern guns with background checks, etc. I received a TICS bulletin a few weeks ago stating I might like to run background checks (at a cost of
$10 each) on black powder guns now. TICS said they couldn't force me to run the checks,since it wasn't in the law, but that I could be held responsible if someone committed a crime with a black powder
gun purchased from me and I hadn't run a check. How's that for gun regulation by intimidation? Most FFL's want to do FFL to FFL just
to avoid hassles. Many individuals will ship a gun to you without
so much as their names on the package or a bill of sale or any paperwork. When the deal goes bad, I have to hold the disputed gun while seller and purchaser argue about the details. And if by chance a gun shows up as stolen during the check, it is a comfort to have a signed FFL in hand rather than an opened shipping contained marked A. Smith, FT Worth, TX.